In 7 years, Never done it on Bull Nose, very uncommon edge these days.

I think edges don't really need to be done. However with anti etch(edges are an option) you can protect almost any edge profile. On a round table the anti etch will look good and uniform. There is a linear foot charge for the service. Films can't go over the edge but can be applied on a straight edge .

As far as holding up on edges, they can get chipped from impacts but if its a residential application it should hold up great-

What is the difference between TuffSkin and StoneGuard?

StoneGuard is patented, which is upheld to the highest standards of the USPTO. StoneGuard was created specifically for natural stone. No other product can make that claim, others are either a re-boxing of a film used for another purpose or partially changed to mimic StoneGuard

If anyone reads through this whole thread, you can see how desperate Final Seal Pros is to disparage anything other than his own product. That should hold weight in itself. He's been removed from multiple Facebook groups and blocked from multiple Instagram pages for being belligerent and acting like you see here, including insulting one of the posters here for deciding to go with AntiEtch. He's never been trained on AntiEtch, so whatever failures he claims to have experienced can't be taken seriously. AntiEtch installers are investing upwards of $10,000 or more to be trained and to obtain the equipment and materials needed to provide this service. They are pre-vetted before they can even sign up for training. I only bring this up so you can understand how seriously the applicators take this process. This isn't a lickity split, in and out service.

AntiEtch isn't an end all be all. Nothing is. The top has to be maintained like any other top. It does not negate the need for basic maintenance, it does however completely eliminate etches and stains. Are there challenges for installers? Yes, just like there is for applying films and refinishing the stone itself. Can it be damaged? Yes, just like films can, along with the natural stone itself. It isn't for everyone. It isn't a sticker that can be peeled off and there is no edge. You literally cannot see or feel the edge when it is finished properly.

If you are considering AntiEtch or a film, or anything else, the best thing you can do for yourself is find your local rep/installer and speak with them, ask for some samples, a portfolio and some references of other clients they have installed for in your area. We're all biased towards our own products, whether intentional or not. There is a database of AntiEtch installers around the country and if there is not one in your immediate area, there is likely someone nearby that will travel to you.

That’s fine Cam. Truth is Anti Etch is failing left and right in our area. Nobody is happy with the product. We speak facts from client feedback. The look isn’t even, the finish has variance, it fails. We get job after job from clients who either had anti etch or looked into it. Incredibly expensive, still new, abrasive process and chemical based. Say what you will, nothing performs better or is more financially practical than StoneGuard. People don’t goop up their cars with resin like liquids, they apply PPF. Easily taken off and doesn’t disturb the original finish. Who wants their brand new beautiful high gloss marble sanded down to dust?
The other thing I hear from clients is a lack of transparency from MORE installers. We aren’t desperate, plenty busy and growing. Believe me. We just speak facts

Also the specific question was in reference to Tuffskin vs StoneGuard. Had nothing to do with your product. Tuffskin is actually really good, just isn’t patented and slightly different makeup. That explanation I gave is straight from StoneGuard corporate. Any film still beats the hell out of a 4-5x cost semi experimental liquid that installers are putting clients on an even more costly annual maintenance program.
You aren’t accepting of outside truth and opinions which is why you banned me out of your feel good installers group.

I asked my fabricator/installer about using Anti Etch as I was considering Fantasy Brn. She said they don't like it, won't use it. Her reasoning was that marble needs to breathe.

Marble doesn't need to breathe; it needs to etch unless it's treated.

Fact of the matter is that any topical treatment over a natural surface which has pores and can trap and pass air or moisture, needs to breathe. The reason that many liquid resins, acrylics or epoxy’s yellow, crack, or fail on natural surfaces such as stone and wood is because that moisture gets trapped underneath as it’s trying to come up and escape. So over time, usually long term like 5 years or more… the topical coating begins to develop characteristics of failure. This is especially true if this same coating is also exposed to natural sunlight which has UV. That UV will accelerate some of those concerns. For Example… before protective film technology got much better, it would cloud or yellow on an automobile. 2 things fixed this… mixing in UV inhibitor technology so that the Sunlight wouldn’t damage the film, and also it’s ability to handle moisture. This same technology has been perfected in StoneGuard. Far as I know, other products either do not have this technology or cannot provide it at same level. Hence the reason why the liquid applied coatings have historically suffered from those issues. Perhaps current products are different, but who’s to tell. All I know is StoneGuard is well over a decade old, with proven results… Hence a lifetime warranty. Other products that have been out for 3,5,6 years and still are in application/durability test phases do claim certain warranties, but it’s yet to be determined what the long term performance will be.

I am a stone fabricator with 30 years experience. I also have several years experience with composites, polyester and acrylic resins and epoxies. I can tell you that any product that creates a film on the stone will eventually fail. You are better off using a penatrating sealer. In reality, if you just clean up spills when they happen, you will never have any problems with staining. If you have marble you will eventually have it etch and scratch. If you use one of the fancy coatings, it will eventually scratch and dull. I don't have an axe to gring or a product to sell you, I only have experience. Personally, I would not waste my money.

The traditional approach is definitely an option and we discuss that often with clients. As we also provide maintenance based refinishing services, etc.
However, technology gets better and better for a reason. One needs to consider constantly staying in tune with change. 30+ years ago these options didn’t exist. It is also only until recent where these products have become very effective and offer people choices. For example nano based liquid sealers provide more benefits than water based penetrating sealers. Hardly 5% of the stone servicing market has tested or used these products. They carry extreme hydrophobic and oleophobic characteristics, more durability, ease of cleaning and sanitation. Better stain protection, by far.
More permanent topical coatings (like the film or resins style) also bring benefits. Not porous so no bacterias, eliminate etching, etc. Yes they scratch or chip, but the film for example absorbs that instead of the surface… which is easily refreshed as needed and saves many issues that require refinishing which sometimes cannot be fully rectified.
Everything has their pros and cons. I think it’s important to really have a full scope approach rather than a rudimentary one.

@Final Seal Pros how does StoneGuard feel where you finish along the edge? Is it easily felt? Could dirt/grime build up there over time? Is it possible to wrap StoneGuard around the edge to the underside, like they do with car panels, so avoid the exposed edge?

Depends on who trims it, but the way we do it, the sharper the existing edge the better. It cannot be felt, seen, or build up anything. Amazing product, we apply it to $500M high rise residential living properties in downtown Boston all the time. Calls won’t stop coming in. Beats anything else when you comp the performance, look and price

wow. Final seal is putting on the hard sell. ive looked at other reviews and it looks like the product itself, scratches easily but does not damage the stone. with that said you are left with little scratches on your counter top, or holes (accidentally drop a knife) that can create bubbling

Yep - no etching, no staining and no wear and tear like scratches, gouges and chips on the stone itself. Which most marbles being so soft, does exhibit physical wear basically as the same rate as a film or other topical coating treatments. The real benefit of a sacrificial layer in the form of a film? Take it off and throw on a new piece at any time, keep that stone mint, sanitary and easy to clean.
Or as we advise some, do nothing and we’ll happily refinish and polish as needed

We had a huge problem with yellowing on my beautiful marble counter tops. We were told the discoloration was from a sun reaction the anti etch product...

Nancy, is MORE involved? Interested to know what their response and resolution to that problem is.

Hi Nancy,

Have you reached out to MORE to have an investigation done? if you could share your information with us, we would be happy to look into this for you and help get it resolved.

sales@moresurfacecare.com

519-551-7819

Hi Nancy

This issue can be resolved. It seems a bit odd that we dont see your name on file. Please call Ben

Sorry Nancy, I guess you're not on the list. Be sure to call Ben though. 1990s style customer service at its finest

Nancy Lang Adler - how did you ever resolve the issue with More anti-etch??

Apparently Nancy Lang Adler doesn't exist. But if you have any questions am sure you can find answers here or within a network of applicators.

To ensure your natural stone does not etch you have to lay polyester film. There’s 2 main company’s like Stoneguard and TuffSkin. Both almost the same product. One might be little thicker in diameter but same.
I’ve been in the film business for 25 plus years and I’ve installed film on marble for 16 years. It’s shocking to see some of these so called certified trainers lay out film and cut is elementary level of work.

There’s quite a few manufacturers that are making film for stone. If anyone has any questions about film for marble or windows feel free to reach out. I’ll be more than happy to guide you thru the process of making the right choices for you.

I wouldn’t really go about claiming to be some kind of expert when it comes to film for natural stone if I were you. You’re imprint on this segment of the industry seems rather… elementary
No window film installer or PPF installer can hang with the way we apply StoneGuard. Takes them a year to get it down. Mostly because each stone is unique and the application processes are not alike

Just by your comment looks like you been doing this just a year!
And looks like you have a narrow mind on how to install film on stone! So called stone guys being your certified trainers is laughable cuz they are experts on film? Lol

Quite the opposite. Flawless installations for 8 years, full restorative services as well. Nano ceramic coatings, other residential glass films including switchable which runs on low voltage so we are also electricians. automotive PPF, wraps, tints, coatings, paint correction. Your initial comment was overly pompous so you had to be shut down.
Want confidence? We’ll blow doors off of practically anyone applying any residential film, on any surface.
Who uses “cuz?” Are you 16 years old?

Sounds like you guys are Jack of all trades but master of none!
And you guys will blow doors off of anyone applying film on any surface? Really??? Sounds like you’re overly pompous! Are you from Premier in nor cal? Lol

You might want to proof read what you say. Sounds like you’re overly pompous!
To claim that you guys will blow door off of any installer is ludicrous! Lol

Gentleman, or ladies…. Can we please have some civility. Quite frankly nobody cares who either of you are. I can’t even find anything on TE window films.
But if either of you want to show anybody what countertops film installation skills you have, come to Boston. We install it flawlessly every single day and have trained many of the current active and very successful dealers…so good luck showing us anything.
And HU is correct when they say the process varies depending on the material. There are many factors with natural stone.

Licensed contractor from California. Been installing film on natural stone since 2007. How ever you guys do your work I really don’t care. If your clients are happy than it’s all good. But no stone company should put them self out there as an expert on film installation. I’m almost certain I can show you guys some new techniques on installing and cutting. Send me your email and I’ll send you a video of my technique. I don’t mind doing that since your not in my territory.

Nicole, sorry for your experience with that product. We see the same in our area. Unfortunately we find that switching from that product to ours is very difficult. The amount of work required to remove the anti etch coating and then get the stone itself refinished and ready to go is immense. We stay away from it unfortunately.
If your installing company is willing to remove the product and finish the stone properly back to its original look, that may be the way to go.

Folks ? Marble etches. If you can not accept that it will most definitely happen, do not select marble. It is like asking summer linen not to wrinkle. Get polyester.

MORE must have convinced Nicole to remove her negative comments in exchange for properly addressing her concerns

Jan:

You are mistaken. Marble treated with MORE Anti-Etch does not etch.

Specific question upcoming… in order to apply MORE anti etch, you can see that the original finish of the stone is completely taken down, sanded.

Ok - lets say my Marble had a very high & even factory polish. Which we all know once honed is difficult to impossible to re-achieve. ive had multiple stone restoration professionals corroborate that.

If MORE was applied by first sanding it to dust. first, how is the product removed?

secondly, how much does removal cost and how much to re-polish the stone thereafter… seeing as though its now not polished at all. Also noting, can this polish be done evenly near my backsplash, cooktop, overmount cabinets, etc? 95 square feet.

keep in mind i would pay basically $10,000 for the original application of this product. yes it scratches, chips, can fail. So whats the process and cost to revert back to original?

Stefano auriti - as the owner of Final Seal Pros which is also on this thread, why did you make a second account today just to make this post? why are you so obsessed with MORE AntiEtch? lol just go sell your product in the market

It’s not a second account, it’s a Google login, with my full name. The other account is having an issue. Nobody is hiding. So would you like to answer the questions or just avoid it?
Because we see it as a massive issue clients are having and MORE installers beat around the bush about these things.
We answering the question or not?

i have not heard of this issue once. things must be slow at stonegaurd for you to be fabricating fake scenarios to try and disparage your competition. i do not do MORE but i do an alternative treatment with the same process. the treatment can easily be removed by scraping, then the counter is restored to its original condition. there is nothing difficult about this process and its in the same price range as normal restoration in which many of my clients do annually. are you saying you do not know how to polish stone around gables and backsplash? this is pretty 101 if your in the restoration field. I am

not understanding the concern you are trying to present?

It’s the incredibly busy, trust me. Thanks to a product that is indeed having the issues and applicators disparaging paying clients on these very forums. It’s helping quite a bit actually.
Ahh yes, scraping. Let’s scrape away

I personally do not see a single issue posted on this forum. even if there was, thats exactly what these forums are for, to provide honest feedback and opinions on a product. to say that every single customer of a product is happy would be a lie. even ferrari has negative comments when things do not go right. and i am sure there is hundreds of your clients upset about stonegaurd delaminating and peeling.

i have nothing to input to this topic other then it bothers me that you are such a greasy, slimy, salesman that no one in the industry respects. your history on this thread proves that. this is your legacy? chill man and go protect some stone, and have a good time in this life.

cheers

Specific question upcoming… in order to apply MORE anti etch, you can see that the original finish of the stone is completely taken down, sanded. YES, TO 80 GRIT SANDPAPER ON A SPECIFIED STROKE AND RPM. NOT NEARLY AS AGGRESSIVE AS ONE WOULD NEED TO BE TO REMOVE SOMETHING LIKE A DEEP SCRATCH OR CHIP OR WHATEVER WHEN RESTORING AND POLISHING THE MARBLE. YOU'RE MAKING IT SOUND LIKE THE FACE IS CHISELED AWAY WITH HAMMERS AND YOU'RE BEING DRAMATIC

Ok - lets say my Marble had a very high & even factory polish. Which we all know once honed is difficult to impossible to re-achieve. ive had multiple stone restoration professionals corroborate that. IF YOU TRULY BELIEVE THIS, THEN YOU ARE UNQUALIFIED TO BE CHARGING CUSTOMERS FOR REFINISHING AND POLISHING MARBLE. AND THE RESTORATION PROFESSIONALS THAT HAVE "CORROBERATED" THIS ARE EITHER INEXPERIENCED OR JUST NEED MORE EDUCATION. THERE ARE A FEW MATERIALS OUT THERE THAT ARE DIFFICULT TO ACHIEVE THE FACTORY FINISH, BUT THE LARGE MAJORITY OF THEM CAN EXCESS THE FACTORY POLISH WHEN BEING RESTORED. i HAVE BEEN PROVING AND DEMONSTRATING THIS IN PERSON ALL OVER THE COUNTRY FOR THE LAST 15 YEARS

If MORE was applied by first sanding it to dust. first, how is the product removed?

secondly, how much does removal cost and how much to re-polish the stone thereafter… seeing as though its now not polished at all. Also noting, can this polish be done evenly near my backsplash, cooktop, overmount cabinets, etc? 95 square feet. "SANDING IT TO DUST" GET A GRIP. REMOVAL COST WILL DEPEND ON THE MATERIAL AND THE LAYOUT AND WILL BE SUBJECTIVE TO DIFFERENT REGIONS AROUND THE COUNTRY, JUST LIKE REFINISHING MARBLE, OR APPLYING FILM. TO ANSWER YOUR ABSOLUTE BAIT OF A QUESTIONS, JUST SO OTHERS READING HERE CAN SEE, YOU CAN 100% RESTORE THE POLISH AFTER REMOVING ANTIETCH, AND YES, IT CAN BE DONE UP TO THE BACKSPLASH, UP TO THE EDGE OF THE COOKTOP (WHICH CAN BE REMOVED FOR ACCESS TO THE EDGE) AND EVERYTHING ELSE. IF YOUR ABILITIES AND SKILL ARE LIMITED, THAT'S FINE, BUT DON'T LUMP ALL THE OTHER STONE PROFESSIONALS INTO THE SAME CATEGORY.

keep in mind i would pay basically $10,000 for the original application of this product. yes it scratches, chips, can fail. So whats the process and cost to revert back to original? ALL THE INFORMATION TO ANSWER THIS QUESTION HAS ALREADY BEEN ADDRESSED ABOVE.

You have an unhealthy obsession with this product, it lives rent free in your head, for years now. Unprovoked, you pop back up wherever you can to to try and disparage the brand and the product. It's concerning dude.

Why work with facts when misinformation can be whatever you want it to be(and easier). Especially in a sort of small forum environment with a person behind the curtain.

We have chosen to promote anti etch, Its been 7 years now and growing.

We worked with stone guard for a short time. We believe it has a place in the industry and that consumers should have choices. Consumers should know the facts of any product or material they purchase as well as their budgets. We are always happy to help and provide samples of anti etch to clients and tell them the pros and cons of the product.

Great - then do me a favor… help your customers. Because I’m not removing your product and dealing with it.

Don’t resort to name calling and making personal attacks when someone asks questions. Even clients on this forum are spoken down to. Maybe not you personally, but the network of installers for sure.

I am not unprovoked… we are dealing with client after client and/or multiple of our accounts who are stone fabricators, builders, etc. All complaining about various things. StoneGuard film isn’t perfect either, but for all our sake, just handle the clients. Training is less about the actual product and more about the customer service surrounding it.

Maybe it’s because we can remove a piece of film and put on a new one in 30 minutes, or because our product cost is less….So that allows us to handle issues quick and cheap as they happen. Your product is more complex and has higher labor/product costs. So I don’t know what the answer would be to just quickly handle issues.

Whatever… Even as it brings us more work, It still comes as a nuisance. Goodbye

its saturday night. 😂

relax man

stefano:

I would suggest you do a bit of research on your interlocutors please. Cameron DeMille and Stu from Stoneshine are some of the finest stone restoration contractors in the country and possibly the world. If either of these guys told me to restore and protect marble by coating it in peanut butter while naked and singing the national anthem, I would do it without question.

Yes I agree, I’m aware of their talents, knowledge and reputation. Always heard good things.
Unfortunately they can’t control the words and actions/lack of action from their applicator community around the country or world.

I got a call from a client asking how to remove anti more product. I told her I’m not in that business we are film applicators.
I actually went to the house to see what it was and it looks great and they just wanted the scratches removed.
Now can you remove scratches?
And can you put film over anti more product?

No need to place a film on top of Anti etch. Scratches are easily removed using proper abrasives and refinishing the surface.

Refinishing and repairs can be blended in and in most cases aren't noticeable.

Should be handled by a trained technician. Even deep/gouges can be repaired by a trained technician. Anti-etch can be refinished periodically just like marble is. Its a maintainable product which makes it unique.