Signet, I am not an expert on tet. conversion. Bob knows more about it than I do. In my understanding, not all tet. conversions are equal. Some are complete conversions, but others are not. Tet. conversions are also difficult to work with. They have a reputation for being hard to set a pod on. We have had Tet. Rose F. Kennedy for several years now and we use only its pollen. I'll ask Bob what he knows about this.

Tomorrow we will travel to the Region 2 Midwinter Symposium. The first event is the hybridizers' forum. I'll ask that question and report back back to you.

Nancy

Hoosier_Nan , that would be fantastic ! Thanks so much ! I can't wait to hear what you learn .

I have wondered about this and also wondered if a tet conversion could also convert to a chimera / that is to say not quite a tet but not a dip either .......somewhere inbetween . Could that be why they are so hard to set a pod on . Also I have been wondering if they can convert back does that mean that the offspring are not tets when they sprout from the main crown? Can you have a dip and a tet on the same plant ( the tet being the conversion division that one buys from a grower but new growth from the crown are dips ?

So many questions

Odd, Nancy, I tried to add a "like" to your comment and it would just show me you had had one like. Never know what new oddity will pop up here.

Hi Kay, you have to click the image of the thumbs up to add a like . If you want to see who liked the post you have to click on the word like, . I know I was frustrated with this as I kept clicking the word like and it never added my name .....finally fiddling around I discovered I had to click on the little icon of the thumbs up .

Signet, I asked your questions at the hybridizers' forum on Friday afternoon. Jamie Gossard was the one who answered the questions and he probably knows more about the topic than anyone except perhaps for Larry Grace, who does a lot of conversions. What I told you earlier is basically the story. Conversions are very tricky and they can revert.

Jamie said that short of testing by flow cytometry, observation of the dip version with the purported tet version is sometimes the best way to tell if the plant has been converted, but that method is not fool proof. In a clump of a supposedly converted plant, it is possible to have a dip, tet, and a chimera (and maybe something else like a pentaploid, etc.). Sometimes one fan will produce a scape that is heavier and you will suspect that that plant is the converted one.

If you want to use a conversion, the best way is to get one from someone who has been successful with it. Most hybridizers just use them for their pollen.

Whether they are worth the money probably depends on what characteristics you are working on. In my opinion, if I can find that characteristic in a tet, I won't be looking for a conversion that has that same characteristic. We paid way too much for Tet. Rose F. Kennedy, but I don't know of any tets that give you that big green throat. Well, I guess I do know of some--the Prism series from Stamile-Pierce--but they have all proven tender in our garden.

I hope I have answered some of your questions. If not, we are going to the Midwest Hybridizers Meeting on the 23rd of this month and I can ask any other questions you might have.

Nancy

Nancy , I guess what I find is so odd , is that all the tets out there were conversions once weren't they ? So I am wondering why are the newer ones such weak conversions or prone to returning to diploid chromosomal counts . .. Was there something done back when that isn't being done now ? Were methods different ? Also if a converted tet can revert to a dip ....can that dip still retain some of the tet's characteristics in its dna ? Is it possible to have both dip and tet chromosomes passed onto the seeds ? i.e. can a pod produce both dip and tet seeds in a single pod? I know .......too many questions.

My understanding is that creating the tets was done with a lot of difficulty (and controversy, I might add). I don't think most daylily growers today know much about the difficulty of converting the dips or the controversy that surrounded the attempt. I have heard that the daylily world was essentially divided into two warring camps.

Eventually the offspring of the conversions seem to settle down and are not as difficult to work with as the original tet. conversions. Our offspring of tet. conversions generally perform (as far as stability) like other tets if that's what they are.

I think the methods of producing the conversions is still the same. It's something we don't want to mess with since the colchicine (the agent that induces the conversion) is a known carcinogen. I know that Dave Mussar of Canada does a lot of conversions and many of the plants he tries to convert just die.

As far as your last question, I'll ask Bob what he thinks. I think it is possible to have seeds out of one pod be different ploidies, but whether that is the result of an failed conversion is something I don't know.

Nancy

Nancy , I really appreciate your input on this and thank you for taking time out of your events to find out these answers. I was aware that colchicine was both carcinogenic and proved to be fatal for some growers who used it . I just wondered if methods have changed in the ensuing years. I was not aware that there were 2 warring camps ( one dip and one tet) when all this first was going on. You learn something new every day they say.

Funny, I grow colchicum autumnal ( fall crocus aka Naked Ladies ) plants here and they sure seem harmless enough although they say they are poisonous

Sorry I kind of went off topic there .