2 hours of sun.. regardless of other factors is not much sun ...

and imo.. the heat is more of a water issue ...

many plants are only shade tolerant ... so sun exposure doesnt really matter ... but many of those plants are water hogs ... so they can tend to get ratty looking.. earlier in the season.. in more sun ... if they can not process enough water to offset the increased sun .... or heat ...

and throw maples on top of that.. and you have an potential increased water issue ... dont forget.. a trees root mass can be twice what you see above the ground.. so just because the are off a bit of a ways ... they may still be an issue ...

not to mention that if you start digging in the roots.. every severed root puts out new feeder roots .. and if you are watering a garden near such.. the feeder roots might aggressively work their way into the favored bed ...

i dont know the sun requirements of shade tolerant roses might be ... but it seems to me.. 2 hours isnt much ... for a spectacular flower show ... not many things dont die in shade ... its just that they might not grow to expectation .. .and with a flowering plant.. expectations is for a full flower show ...

bottom line .... shade is hard to define and discuss in words alone.... even with pix ... so all you are left with.. is experimenting.. until you find the plants that THRIVE [rather than just survive].... in your garden.. in your yard ... what will work.. is just so site specific .. once you get all the ideas of what works for others ...

ken

The maple roots aren’t a worry. It is a raised bed and I haven’t had any problem with roots in the area. I should have clarified that. I think the maples are far enough away that their roots won’t be an issue.

I should also mention that we have drought during the summers. Not as bad as many places, but enough to present quite a challenge. 100°+ days without a drop of rain for a month and sometimes two. I have no irrigation system. I water everything as I can, but for the most part I shy away from plants that require more than a minimal amount of water.

In my area, shade is not merely a tolerance but a requirement for hostas, astilbe, heuchera, brunnera, ferns, and many others. Perhaps if they were constantly moist they could withstand blistering sun, but I cannot provide that for them. In full, deep shade, they thrive with a little bit of supplemental water, even if they do look a little tired and worn during the worst of the summer. In any sun exposure (apart from brief morning or evening), they burn.

I will certainly experiment! :) Also with regard to roses and other flowering plants, I would not expect the same flower show as I would given optimal conditions. I would just hope to find some that would present an appealing, acceptable presentation.

I have grown many things in conditions different from the “recommended,” and they have surprised me! I guess that’s where your experimentation comes in :)

also so I realize that two hours is not much sun, but two hours of gentle morning sun would be quite different from two hours during the harshest part of the day. That is my problem.

Agree that 2 hours of sun isn't much and not the primary issue --> it's dryness. One way to try to get around it is using the Soil Moist-type crystals that absorb water and release it slowly; it will buy you time to allow the perennials to grow a good root mass. That trick has worked beautifully for me before -- I was able to establish hydrangeas of all things beneath a mature maple. Or, seek out shade tolerant perennials which really don't mind some dryness. Keep in mind any plant needs plenty of water until it gets fully established, so you're going to have to baby whatever you plant there for the first season. Some plants that have done very well for me in dry shade are Dryopteris ferns, Chasmanthium, groundcover-type geraniums (e.g. "Biokovo") -- not sure about larger geraniums, Solomon's seal (even the variegated ones), woodland phlox (Phlox divaricata), and liriope. Yews also might do ok, if you want an evergreen shrub or two. Roses need a butt-load of water, I'd skip that plan.

Totally agree with both of the above. I have never used the "Soil Moist-type crystals" so cannot speak to that.

The top 3 plants for dry shade are Polygonatum - Solomon's Seal, Epimedium and Geranium macrorrhizum.

Mxk3, thanks for the suggestions. I’ll look into the soil crystals. I like the idea of shade “tolerant” perennials that don’t mind dry soil. Going that route, rather than shade lovers, will probably be best. Liriope should work well. Daylilies porobably will, too. I love my Solomons seal in the dry shade. It does tend to burn in the sun, but I’ll give it a try. Thanks! You got my mind whirring.

The water issue with roses doesn’t concern me. I have lots of roses, and they do ok as long as I give them some occasional deep watering.

I do want to stress that I am not looking for a solution to dry shade. I have lots of those areas I have learned to deal with. I am specifically looking for solutions to the exposure to blazing midday sun with shade the rest of the day. I realize that it seems the general consensus here is that this is not an issue, but in my experience, in my climate, in my particular situation, it does present a problem. If anyone has grown in similar conditions, I’d love to hear how you managed it!

I do appreciate the suggestions for dry shade, though! It will certainly be useful, even if some of it has to be discarded. :)

It's going to be really hard...and your best bet in my experience would be natives that grow in savannah/woodland edge conditions. You might consult Missourri Wildflowers website, they categorize plants for those sort of conditions as I recall.

I do have a similar area with over hanging spruce whose roots are on a lower lever. I am growing sprirea and hydrangeas there if you can believe. They definitely needed supplemental water the first couple of years, but seemed fine last year. Of course, we get a lot of rain so I don't know why I'm even making suggestions! : )( Liriope should do fine and the dryness would help keep it from spreading as it does here. Are you looking for shrubs? what about Bayberry. I second lookin on the MBG website. Another thing I learned was when a plant says sun/part shade it always benefits from part shade so some plants like that may work.

Perhaps try some ferns and some coral bells. I have Caramel heuchera that tolerates hot sun very well and is very robust. You could try hydrangeas & native grasses. Some hostas may do okay there, I'm thinking Royal Standard, Gold Standard, Honeybells, Regal Splendor, Geranium, Rozanne. Whatever you decide on, planting as early as possible when the ground is consistently wet so that you don't have to water a particular area and draw tree roots to that moisture would be best.

So, what you are describing is dry shade, with 2 hours of strong sun. You will have to find plants which live with that in your area. I am sure there are some. Here, I have iris foetida, which loves dry shade, wet shade, full sun, whatever. It even spreads all by itself. I am not sure about cold hardiness.

Re roses, they all need water to get established, of course. However, after the first 2 years you should be able to not irrigate them in the summer. Roses I have which are reasonably happy in light or partial shade are hybrid musks like Ballerina, Pax, etc. All roses love sun, so they will not be unhappy about the 2 hours of real sun.

Jackie

I would try Heuchera, Helleborus, Mahonia japonica and Juniperus procumbens 'Nana' which is shade tolerant and a nice ground cover. Any evergreens that are shade tolerant since when the maples loose leaves evergreens would get a little extra sun boost in late fall and early spring. Nandina domestica (called Heavenly Bamboo, but not actually bamboo) is zone 6-9 and seems to like heat and shade. Perhaps an Eastern Redbud, Vine Maple or another small understory tree if planted in the right place could provide shade from those two hours of blazing sun and then you could just do full shade garden underneath.

Woah, thank you all for the suggestions! Keep them coming! Lol. Thank you all so much! What a great lot of ideas. I’ll be able to reply individually later. Thank you again!

I have a spot like that and I have hydrangeas planted there. They get no water, except occasionally in the late summer. I am amazed at how beautiful they are! The key is not to use the Nikko Blue...they need a lot of water. The ones I have are an antique french variety that I unfortunately can't remember the name of. I got them from Vintage gardens 10 years ago when they used to sell hydrangeas.

Since you already have Ballerina and Sally, I’d try one of them there. If one was happy I’d leave it there and if it didn’t like it I’d move it again...but then again I move stuff around A LOT in my garden :)

In NC I had just such a spot. It was a small area and I put a huge pot there and grew an fern. I thought the sun would be too intense but it grew from a tiny start to a huge happy fern with nothing but rain water to help it.

I would tend to go with natives for your area that do well with similar conditions. While not geared to your area, Annie's has some wonderful ones that would need watering for the first year to get established but once established, should do just fine. Annies. BTW, many of her annuals reseed and they come back up like clockwork. It really is a lovely catalog and she sells great plants.

i’m experimenting with roses in a similar light situation, and they haven’t died yet. I got some recommended varieties from Burlington. I do definitely water though. In those areas I’ve killed a couple hydrangea and heuchera there already, along with some blueberries. I am probably dryer than you as well as with more direct sun, so I don’t know if this applies to your situation at all. I think our native roses grow in shade here so I am taking them as a clue.

I think that for many plants, the dryness is more of an issue than the part sun.

Is the space large enough to accommodate shrubs? If so, consider panicled hydrangeas and oak leaf hydrangeas.

Some clematis might find that enough sun, depending on the type of clematis and how bright the shade is for how long.

Check out what sedges are happy in your area.

Perhaps great blue lobelia, L. siphilitica, though in my garden it seeds too enthusiastically.

In my climate 2 hours of direct sun only at the hottest part of the day means death for many plants. Hostas and hellebores do not survive this, no matter how much water they are given, in fact, too much water will rot the hellebores. Plants that need sun, also fail because they grow weak in the shade, then fry when the sun hits them. At this altitude, there isn't the 6,500 feet of air filled with particles and water molecules to bounce around the light into the shadows or diffuse the direct sunlight. Thus, the shadows are darker and the direct sun is more intense. 2 hours of western sun with shade the rest of the day is a particularly challenging location, especially if it is against a wall that reflects the light and heat. There are very few plants that will tolerate this. It may take a lot of trial and error to find the right plant, but something that you can do is to walk around the neighborhood and see what other people have growing in a similar situation. If all these efforts fail, consider designing something that doesn't have living things in that spot. Good luck!

I live in Colorado, where the summers are hot and dry. My best suggestion is Sweet Woodruff. It’s more of a groundcover, quite low growing and will spread. It does have cute sweet white flowers for a few weeks and the leaves give interest all season. It seems to be happy in shade, sun, dry, whatever.

Red Valerian also seems to grow in every condition, and blooms from late spring all the way to frost, although it looks pretty scraggly in August.

Agree with what SUSAN namway said ((above)). Especially coral bells - like purple palace - and the more sun savvy ferns.

I have a similar area in my side yard - I tried planting roses there last year, and despite regular watering they didn't like it - the plants didn't grow well, and the blooms they did put out fried quickly in the harsh afternoon sun. The companion nepeta (walker's low) I planted there did okay, so some hardy perennials might be a better bet. (I also have boring evergreen landscape shrubs in that area that do okay.)

If anything is a success for you, definitely let us know!

I know that spot. I have astilbes and wild ginger in that spot that do well. I had ostrich fern there that got crispy. Pachysandra lives there, too and does okay, but has not really spread. I just ordered Clematis Paniculata for a trellis I have there. Hear me out, those who would complain about invasiveness: I've found that, in less than optimal conditions, certain "aggressive" plants behave and, considering the pachysandra that looks okay but doesn't spread, I'm going to take a chance. And one other thing--I have no trees in this area, just the blazing two-hours of late afternoon sun, so lack of moisture is not an issue here.

I'm in Oklahoma and I bet our sun is hotter than yours. Through trial and error I've tried all of these and they do just fine in those conditions:

Rose of Sharon, Holly Shrubs, Salvia greggii, Purple Coneflower, Lanceleaf Coreopsis (will form a colony), Perennial Winecup, Black-eyed Susan, Scarlet Sage, Cowpen Daisy, American Beauty Berry (shrub), Malvaviscus drummondii (Turk's Cap), Red Columbine, Yellow Columbine, Mealycup Sage, Silver King Artemisia, Nandina, Redbud Trees (check out the one called 'Forest Pansy', its got red leaves and blooms even on the trunk, no ugly seeds), Pine Muhly Grass, common varieties of the ground cover types of sedum & Chicks and Hens--which burn up in full sun here but do great in full shade.