No. Not if your plants are fully hardened off. Last frost date is irrelevant for hardened off hardy plants. You could have planted them last autumn and they'd have gone through the whole winter happily.

Soil condition is extremely important when thinking about spring planting. Is the planting area completely thawed? Is it dry enough to work the soil? If it's too wet and you work the soil (i.e. dig), you run the risk of wrecking the soil texture. What's the forecast --> lots of rain, should probably hold off. Cold, wet soil = root rot = death.

Old farmer's trick: Form a ball of soil from the area in the palm of your hand and gently tap it with your fingers -- if it breaks apart, ok to plant; if it doesn't, then the soil isn't ready.

Agree with floral. Zone hardy plants, if sufficiently hardened off, can be planted any time the soil is workable. Last frost date really only applies to planting (or seeding) temperature sensitive annuals and edibles.

FWIW, zone 7 soils do not freeze to any appreciable degree. But they certainly could be excessively wet in early spring!

I planted yesterday, I say go for it.

So far, at least in my area, snow has melted and there has been little precipitation, so actually more on the "dry" side. Which is surprising, because as gardengal says, we are more often than not dealing with excessive wet/mud at this point. But, as floral pointed out - any thing I really wanted to plant was done back in the fall - now it's just wait and see what I did in my creative mind at that time....

where are the plants you want to plant.. and where did they come from.. are they properly hardened off ...

plants trucked into bigbox.. were forced for early sale .... and they need to acclimate to your garden ...

local nursery plants MIGHT be more ready to go straight in the ground ... if they hardened them off ...

indoor grown seedlings.. need hardening off ...

i think hardening off is the issue ...

ken

Alright my planting starts tonight. Ground is a little wet and is thawed but not by much. They should all be properly hardened off except for those alpine strawberries I got couple weeks ago that I made a thread about. Even still they were fine in below freezing nights. All my perennials were outside in the middle of my yard and it endured 27 degrees nights for 3 days straight with absolutely no signs of foliage damage. So does that mean it’s alteady hardened off?

"All my perennials were outside in the middle of my yard and it endured 27 degrees nights for 3 days straight with absolutely no signs of foliage damage. So does that mean it’s alteady hardened off? "

Yes.

Ok. How about for transplanting? Is it safe to do so now? Since they were outside the whole time which makes them hardened off right?

"Ground is a little wet and is thawed but not by much."

Do you mean the ground is wet not by much, or the ground isn't thawed by much? If it's not completely thawed, you have no business planting anything - hold your horses and wait until the conditions improve.

Do the ball of soil trick as mentioned above - if it stays in a firm ball, it is too wet to plant.

Do you understand what "hardening off" means? Hardening off means to gradually acclimate plants that have been indoors or in a protected location to outdoor temperatures and conditions. If they have been living outside all winter or even just a few weeks, then they are considered hardened off.

My soil would never break apart when tapped. It's sticky clay soil and if you make it into a ball it'll stay in a ball. I forgot about frozen soil. Mine never freezes.

It’s completely thawed but a little wet or moist. I know what hardening off means. I just didn’t know to what extent until you can call a plant hardened off

Hardening off is really a big issue with plants which have been under indoor lights or kept in heated greenhouses. It is never an issue, moving from my freezing greenhouse to outdoors...but if I bought a nursery-raised plant, I can do the hardening off in as little as 5 days to a week - outside in the day, under cover at night. When I just had cold-frames, I could prop the lid open for longer periods of time.

Temperature is probably less important than moisture levels and the granularity of soil particles. Soil needs to be friable and not claggy so it settles round the roots.- working it too early can damage the soil structure (compaction or panning). I can probably be out digging, planting and working my sandy, light soil a good month before Floral, with her damp, cold and sticky clay.

dude.. i clearly explained.. that hardening off is when you go from one different climate .. to another .. without tempering ...

plants in the middle of your yard are .... by definition.. acclimated to your yard ...

there is no getting ahead.. if your soil is not warm enough to encourage root growth ... and you say.. its just thawed ...

someone did a post about staying out of your yard ... read it .. lol

ken

I'm 6b PA, and I planted some perennials from a nursery I trust (I know they field grow the perennials they offer this early, and take off the row hoops every sunny day), along with some cold weather annuals and bulbs in container plantings for my porch. My biggest problem so far has been that the new perennials are much more appealing to the rats on stilts (deer) than the just emerging ones, so they've already taken a few bites. The soil in that particular bed is quite well draining, and it passes the tap test described above, even with all the rain we've had.

Yes they were all in my unheated garage for most of the winter and most of the plants’ foliage started emerging in February. They weren’t outside the whole time. Some were heeled in in a protected spot as well. But I took them outside as March came and took them back inside for nights with temps below 25. But I slowly started letting them be outside the whole time. I actually planted some wine berries and transplanted my irises And My soil was very workable. I tried the forming the ball method and it crumbled too. Now I just need to install a root barrier and netting around it!

Sounds like you are good to go! Happy spring planting.

Hey I don’t want to take over the perennial forum with all my threads so I may as well ask here but argh artemisia princeps. Look at the way they spread. And its only in its second year (first spring) and already the roots have gone this far. Is this considered a noxious weed which if I don’t do anything about, will take over the whole yard? Also why is it that the main crown doesn’t have any new growth but the spreading roots do? This is all coming from one plant

Like a number others of its genus, it is an aggressive speader. I have not grown this species myself but from Wikipedia: "This species spreads rapidly by means of underground stolons and can become invasive".

Well I've read that same thing too but I would like to know to what extent. Is it to the point where it can take over a whole section of a country and be considered a noxious weed such as the bittersweet, wineberry, Japanese knotweed? I definitely do not want to be one of those people that contribute to the spread of invasive alien weeds! Just imagine in a future article in a couple of decades "Heruga(real name used of course) planted some couple artemisia princeps in his garden, as a result it has escaped cultivation and currently is in a state of massive invasion in northeastern North America and we are making every effort to eradicate this alien species." ....... Oh god just by imagining this I feel guilty. Someone please tell me this plant isn't as invasive as some of the other naturalized species!

Herugasan , are you growing it as an ornamental, or are you eating it? It's tied into your culture. It's agressiveness must be common knowledge??? I ordered a yomogi plant and I know I'm going to be in keep it under control mode. Like, all Artemisias are aggressive spreaders but A. princeps is listed as the worst of the bunch, this should be interesting, couldn't be as bad as Campsis radicans lol. I think that maybe this plant expends so much energy expanding itself that energy is diverted from the older middle of the crown. One can only hope there's a species of rabbit that's fond of Artemisias!

Never said it was invasive.....just an aggressive spreader. Many of the perennials we include in our gardens can be considered under that description: aggressive to the point of being garden thugs. But not an invasive species. Like goutweed, gooseneck loosestrife, obedient plant, chameleon plant, the petasites dscussed in another thread, etc.

You can't find any photos of a complete Artemisia princeps plant on the internet. Just pieces of the plant. It would be nice to see what a full, mature specimen looks like. People might have second thoughts about growing it. I'm going to eat my yomogi. It wouldn't be worth it for me growing it, if it was just for ornamental reasons. It might even be too much work even though I'm eating it, might get huge arms from constant digging and chucking of yomogi roots with clods of dirt.

Well thats relieving. I do have a huge area of both the pure petasites japonicus and var. giganteus and they do seem to spread but haven't took over the whole garden in the 15 years its been there. Yet. I just hope its tendency to spread isn't greater than the petasites. But maybe its just a matter of controlling it yourself. I am going to grow it both as an ornamental and an edible herb. It looks nice and smells nice but I just didn't want it taking over the whole yard.

I'll keep you updated on how fast my plant spreads lol! I doubt it could be worse at spreading than Helianthus tuberosum. I've never grown Petasites so I have no idea what it's like. I think I'll probably have to divide the yomogi every other year to keep it vigorous and in bounds. Hopefully not every year. I'm going to make smudges out of it too. My main interest is yomogi's medicinal effects but I'm looking forward to eating it. What's that drink your dad makes with the flowers? I can't remember what plant it was. I think it was shiso flowers. I'm getting an ashitaba plant too, so I'll be eating that.

Yes its the shiso flower that he used. Who knew all these edible plants are pretty much all invasive!

"You can't find any photos of a complete Artemisia princeps plant on the internet."

I searched and could not find any either. I wonder if it is because it would scare people off.

Heruga when I look at the growth pattern of your A. p . it reminds me of my A. v. 'Oriental Limelight'. Aggressive is an understatement. It is extremely difficult to eradicate. The roots run horizontally then go deep. When I (try to) dig it out any piece that I miss comes back with a vengeance.

I have never grown A. p. but looking at your pic makes me cringe. Fair warning.

I dont know about A. princeps but there is an embankment off Kozloski road in Freehold, probably about an acre in size, completely covered in A. vulgaris (Mugwort). There is another field of A. vulgaris behind Moore's tavern near Freehold mall. It is definitely an aggressive spreader but I havent personally noticed it taking over places that aren't man made. I am constantly picking out new mugwort foliage from an embankment next to my driveway and it just keeps coming back. It also grows in the lawn on the otherside of the driveway. To be fair though, the turf grass is in really poor condition there.

Oh my! Is that all one plant,? Heruga, what did you get me into lol! Why do you grow the Patrinia scabiosifolia. It's an unusual plant that not many grow. In the honeysuckle family like corn salad, weird! I hear Patrinia harbors a disease that affects hemerocallis. I think you should grow about a million more lol. I just helped 6 stellas make it to the other side. The earwig motels are closing down. New natives will be taking their places!

Well this is making me more and more anxious... should I be a responsible gardener and yank it out of the ground? Here in my garden we have some vigorous/invasive plants native to japan but none has completely taken over yet. I hope it is the same with my artemisia. I guess what I can do is plant them in deep pots or plastic bottomless tubs and sink them underground. Will that do anything at all to control spread? I don’t think I will be getting root barriers. Too expensive and too laborous to install.

That is all one plant that came from a 4 in square pot I planted last summer. I have 2 more planted on the left of it. I want to try out Patrinia for my perennial border. It is also going to be a meadow garden theme as in all my plants in my perennial border will be plants that naturally inhabit meadowlands in Japan. Even though it won’t be planted like a meadow I am using plants that come from that type of habitat. The tall yellow flowers are just too good to pass. I never had any interest in daylilies so that virus won’t do me any harm

I used a large, very heavy duty pot sunk into the ground, leaving an inch or two above ground when I planted A. 'Oriental Limelight'. It laughed at my attempt and ate the pot. It pulled it down and grew out over the sides and from the bottom as well.

You could grow it in a large pot/container that sits on a hard, solid surface or on a deck. If it were sitting on a garden bed the roots would still get into the soil. I believe it would penetrate a lawn also. That would be the only way to control its spread. I would hate to see you and Jay dealing with that nightmare!

They grow this Artemisia all over Japan right? How do they deal with its agressive nature over there? I don't know where I'll plant my yomogi when I get it. The Patrinia does have medicinal uses. I don't think I've ever seen a live Patrinia plant. It's very interesting looking. I thought it was in Apiaceae at first. I'm not worried about the Artemisia spreading. I'm excited about growing it and it couldn't compete with the Campsis that's trying to encapsulate my house. Do you have the 'Golden Lace' Patrinia cultivar?

http://www.naturalmedicinalherbs.net/herbs/p/patrinia-scabiosifolia.php

Hmm... I really wanted to plant this in my perennial border.. maybe an 18 in deep root barrier is the only option if I intend to plant in the ground. I’ve got campanula punctata cherry bells to plant as well so might as well...

Jay, when I went to Korea last year I saw a couple popping up in random places here and there at a farmland. I don’t recall seeing a huge colony of it though... I didn’t know that about the patrinia! That’s cool, maybe I’ll make use of it one day. I thought golden lace is the common name and the only known cultivar is ‘Nagoya’?

Btw does anyone know how badly Rubus phoenicasius spreads. It is technically an invasive in my state and many parts of the northeast and it has naturalized itself all over the place. Is it because of its capability of tip layering itself as well as unharvested fruits that set seed? My theory is that those hybrid raspberries(Rubus idaeus) sold in typical garden centers have the capabilities and tendencies to spread the same way the R. Phoenicolasius(wineberries) does but it doesn’t happen because most of its fruits are harvested by the home gardener and these raspberries don’t bend it’s stem to the ground making incapable of tip layering itself unlike the wineberries. I have had a decent sized raspberry patch for 13 years and I see that those raspberries extend its roots pretty far from its original crown and have spread pretty vigorously. So here’s my conclusion. Both the man made raspberries cultivars and the wineberry are equally as vigorous by underground rhizomes but the only reason the wineberry is more invasive is because of its ability to self layer itself and unharvested fruits setting seed or from birds. Many raspberry owners will protect their fruit from birds and maybe seed from them don’t germinate easily. If anyone knows please give me clarification. This will determine whether I really need to invest in hundreds of dollars for root barriers or create a foot long trench around the bed and manually control the spread by root pruning twice a year, the same way you would with running bamboo.

It is your choice, I am just trying to save you from having a problem. Campanula p. 'Cherry Bells' is another horribly aggressive plant. This I know from experience. Good luck.

UI guess I had it wrong about the Patrinia cultivar name, it is Nagoya. People eat it, I wonder what it taste like? I grew some raspberries for a few years. They were expanding too much in my little garden so I took them out. I don't know much about growing berries but I'm wondering if there is a better way to control them that's not so expensive and so much work. I like your theory about the invasiveness of wineberries, but sorry I can't confirm that you alone have solved it lol.

Patrinia scabiosifolia, Valerianoideae, Caprifoliaceae, Dipsacales.

Patrinia scabiosifolia.

Angelica keiskei koidzumi, Apiaceae, Apiales.

https://youtu.be/53YzBDybVRc

I'm ordering a Patrinia scabiosifolia plant. It's an important Chinese herbal also.

It's so hard to wait, isn't it?