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going_northwest

Advice needed in refinished hardwood flooring problems, thank you!

7 years ago
last modified: 7 years ago

We hired a hardwood flooring firm to refinish our 20 year old red oak floors and then added/ laced in an additional 600 sq feet of red oak floor. The amount of sq feet was around 1200. The craftsmen did a great job laying down and lacing in the hardwood floors. Once the stain was laid down they noticed haloing around the edges of the floors. We were not home at this time. It was determined that the new apprentice used the wrong grit of sandpaper on the edges. The quality manager told them to sand and stain again. They stained the floor with Bona Craft oil 1:1 ratio Ash and Clay . Then to give the floors a two tone effect they use 1:1 ratio frost and neutral. The floors turned out nice. They ended up not being the same color as the sample and what we wanted, but we decided we could live with the color. When our main floor remodel was completed the company would come back at a later date to buff and lay down Bona Traffic. We paid the firm all but $1,500.00 of the balance. About a week after the floors were finished we started to notice that the frost was starting to amder. We contacted the quality manager and he discussed the problem with a Bona rep. They determined that the neutral was causing the ambering without the traffic poly on top of the craft oil to seal in the color. The Bona rep told the manger how to fix the issue and it would be solved when they came back to our home to lay down the traffic poly. Fast forward to July. Our first craftsman had left the company and the firm sent someone new in. Craftsman #2 followed the instructions of the Bona rep. The ambering turned into a uglly yellow before the traffic was laid down. We then had to wait a week for the Bona rep to come look at our floors. Bona rep said use mineral spirits to get the yellowing out and a few other instructions. The quality manager tried to remove the yellowing but was not successful. It was determined that the floors would need to be sanded again for the 3rd time followed by water popping for a 3rd time. The second craftsman comes in to start sanding while we are on vacation. During this time he decided to quit working for the company. Quality manager sets up a third craftsman to finish our floors the following week. No one showed up that day. We called the owner and the Quality manager quit to go work for another company and did not tell the third craftman about our job. Third guy shows up on a Thursday but lets us know that he is going fishing and he will do the sanding and then a fourth craftsman will come in to do the staining. We book a hotel for the third time and left to let them do their thing. We did express please contact the Bona rep and confirm that our floor will not amber again if poly is laid down. Fourth guy said not problem, Bona rep is his uncle and he is going to be coming over to our house to go over instructions because 4th guy has not used craft oil before. Super nice guy, really liked him and the conversation we had regarding our floors. He just moved back to our state and had previously owned his own hardwood floor refinishing company.
Thanks for still reading to this point...We come back home and there are several workmanship issues, damage and/or flaws. We are not sure what to call the problems. We are going to be posting these pictures in the comments. To top it off the color is not the correct color and the frost is ambering again.
The owner comes to inspect the floors. He thinks the color looks cool and did not want to acknowledge the damage to our floors. He agreed that he does not have anyone currently employed that could get the floors to meet our standard while repairing the damage. He verbally agreed that he would pay another company to come in and refinish our floors. This would be the 4th time our floors would be sanded and then water popped. As a side note, on the third sanding nails and staples were popping up and needed to be filled.
The next day the owner emails us with his conditions. I have taken out the firm's name:
“Thanks for getting back to me. On that offer, there are a couple of conditions;
1) An NWFA Certified Inspector, of your choice, needs to determine whether or not (firm)improperly refinished the floor. If (firm) was at fault, (firm) will pay for the inspection and we can move forward with another contractor. You can find a list of inspectors by region here - https://www.woodfloors.org/certified-inspector.aspx
2) If (firm) is at fault, we will pay another contractor to refinish the floors, up to the price (firm) charged, or within reason. This is to assure an honest bid. We are at the higher-end in terms of pricing, so I don’t anticipate this being an issue. We will not be held accountable for the quality of the work, or any outcome of the project, we are only paying the invoice.
Does this sound fair? Please let me know your thoughts.”
An inspection would cost us about $1,000.00. There are three local inspectors. #1 is booked for a month, #2 inspector is another uncle of #4 craftsman so he can not do an honest report, #3 inspector declined to take the job once he learn the firm's name. He stated that the firm’s owner is too well known in the industry and he would not inspect one of his floors.
The Bona rep (another uncle) is coming to look at our floors tomorrow to see why the floors are ambering again.
Help, we feel like we are screwed. We don't know if inspector #1 will give an honest report too if the owner of the hardwood flooring firm is so well known.
Why does the owner of the firm want an inspection? Is he trying to get out of fixing craftsman #3 and #4 finishing work. Any feedback, advice would be greatly appreciated.
We will be posting images in comments. You can see all of the flaws standing besides the splinters and poly drips. Thanks so much.

Comments (20)

  • 7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago








    E

    Edger / dwell marksger / dwell marks

  • 7 years ago


    Drip marks by the toilet. Thinking it is urine?

  • 7 years ago




    Something went wrong in the kitchen and a patch repair was attempted. You can see the edges of the hardwood boards.

  • 7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    we paid $12,000 is it acceptable to have peeling poly?




    Peeling traffic poly

  • 7 years ago







    We had no damage to our floor before we left for our hotel. Not sure what happened?

  • 7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago












    Its hard to capture the ambering in the images but you can see it when standing. More around the edges of the floors and then on the new hardwood floors. There is more soft grain in the new hardwood vs the old.

  • 7 years ago




    Another repair

  • 7 years ago



    All of our new vents have debris and yellowing.

  • 7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago




    Splintering in new hardwood floors in a few spots.

  • 7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago


    Close up of the amber color


    We think that the neutral/frost mix is causing the yellowing as show on the back of all the vents.

  • 7 years ago

    I would get a lawyer...

  • 7 years ago

    Ditto on the lawyer!


  • 7 years ago

    At this point, I would take the money and then 'live with it' for as long as possible. I would counter offer with, "Return my money and I will take the necessary steps to complete my floor project on my own." I can pretty much guarantee they will JUMP at this option.


    Your floor is fully functional with multiple attempts to get it to the colour you want. I would hate to see any more sanding done at this point. I know it isn't perfect, but it *might be "good enough".


    The colour you are attempting to create is EXTREMELY difficult to achieve on red oak. The Bona Craft Oil colours are ALL showing 'yellow' tones on white oak. That means there will be yellow tones showing through on red oak. Bona Craft oil advertises 'oiled floors with a finish'. An oil floor is OFTEN yellowish once completed.


    I'm wondering if the ambering is coming from the Craft Oil itself...simply because that is how it has been designed. The rest of the refinishing issues have to do with colour acceptance over areas that *might have received patch material...and patch (wood patch) will take colour VERY differently.


    I know this isn't what you were hoping for. I know this is very upsetting - especially after all the attempts to get this done - you will need to find your personal 'cut off' point. When do YOU decide that enough is enough?


    I would ask for my money back....which is probably what the company would consider acceptable...and move in and move on. Once the furniture is back into place and trim has been put back into place (etc.) you will find 90% of these issues will be hidden.

    Going Northwest thanked SJ McCarthy
  • PRO
    7 years ago

    Wow! You did not tell your entire story from your other post.


    The ambering is caused from not mixing or shaking the two colors enough. After the two colors were mixed, it should have been separated in batches or containers. Each batch to be re-shaken before use. Your peeling is due to the top coat window being exceeded . In order to have a successful top coat. HD has to be coated within the manufacture's recommended top coat window of 24 hours. Which Bona will not tell you unless you're a Bona certified craftsman. They only state, after the oil has dried - neutral 8hrs and colors 12 hours.


    All those blotch is caused from not allowing the water from the water pop process to completely dry. You can see that the oil reacted in those specific areas. Oil and water will not mix.

    Going Northwest thanked G & S Floor Service
  • 7 years ago

    Thank you for your comments. The Bona rep confirmed that the neutral and frost mixture caused the amber color. The owner of the company is offering to take $1,000.00 off our $12,000.00 bill for the blemishes. Meanwhile our poly keeps peeling. Any suggestions on who to contact for a second option would be wonderful.

  • PRO
    7 years ago

    First I hate reading a book to get to the issue and IMO if you did not want amber or any color red oak was not the answer as for the 2 tone effect why was that even considered and I see stuff done with a close up that perobaly will never show agian in real life I think asking for your money back is not realistic and I also think you expected something that was not doable with the wood you chose.

  • 7 years ago

    All of the flaws are in high traffic areas and are visible standing and 2 feet away. Some are visible across the room.

    Flaws that are visible while on knees were not posted.

  • PRO
    7 years ago

    You used Bona Traffic for a top coat. Contact a Bona rep or tech support.

    Going Northwest thanked G & S Floor Service
  • 7 years ago

    Thank you G & S Floor Service. We will contact Bona in the morning regarding the peeling poly.