We found Rootone to be too strong. (Note, vaporvac uses it sparingly). We've had better luck with dip 'n gro . . . but it may be that we just don't have the right touch for Rootone.

We also found willow water to be helpful.

The powders tend to be harder to use properly. If too much is applied, they absorb water and get like greasy chicken breading. You have to make sure you only have about a day's worth of dust on them. My preference is Dip'n Gro Liquid mixed to about a 12.5 X strength. That's simply roughly half away between 10 X and 15 X on the beaker. It absorbs right in and doesn't get gummy, causing rot. Like everything else, most folks will have personal preferences. As long as it works for you, use it.

I've recently found a “system” on youtube that I want to try. Mike Kincade https://youtu.be/2Tzgz0i9ZAM propagate like a pro parts 1 -4 what are your thoughts on his system?

I'm sure it would work. It just depends how involved you want to get. For me, with rain and humidity, the most important factors are a free-flowing medium. I water mine if it doesn't rain so I don't use any covering. Mine almost 100% rotted when I did... hundreds of cuttings probably. : (( Now I just use partially composted wood chips. I'd prefer pine bark fines, but my BBstores don't carry them anymore. I've also had good luck just sticking them by the mother plant, but the roots don't get as big unless I mix in compost first.

We probably root 3000-5000 roses per year in an outdoor, unshaded mist bed. Our current favorite material is Dip-n-Grow, mainly because we can adjust the concentration. For almost all roses, we use it at 1 part DnG to 8 parts water. For more difficult-to-root stuff ('Fortuniana', some Albas, etc.), we will increase the concentration, often to 1:6 or even 1:5. But 1:8 really works for nearly everything. Our alternative is Hormodin II -- a powder containing IBA. Not quite the same as rootone, but similar. We do a basal wound to the cutting, so that freshly cut surface is slightly damp; otherwise we don't wet the base of the cutting. Dip it in the powder, then flick a finger onto the cutting to knock off all but the thinnest film of powder. Then we stick the cutting into pre-poked holes in the soil (otherwise, shoving them into the soil will wipe away the powder). That method works about as well as the DnG, but I find the DnG to be less hassle, so we more often use it.

Malcolm, what type of soil are you using in your mistbeds? Perlite, sand, potting soil, or something else?

We use SunGro (formerly Fafard 2), which is a peat/perlite mix. Same as we grow the plants off in, in 1- or 2-gallon pots later. we use 2x2x6" band pots, and we do not pack the soil; leave it loose.

Rooting success is normally well over 90%.

Thanks Malcom. I think I will try it. Ive been debating making a mist bed for awhile. I root so many things and most of them are fairly easy but roses seem to be a little more challenging here. I've been using Rootone but will now switch to DnG to see if that helps.

Do you have better luck starting rose cutting in spring or fall?

~Sjn

While the amount of time needed to strike roots varies with the season, I don't see any variation in ultimate % success. With roses, I think it's particularly important that the mist bed not be shaded -- full, unfiltered noon sun is perfect! Of course you can't do that with the plastic bag or Coke bottle methods, because you'd cook your cuttings, so that's one reason a mist system works so much better.

Do you have your missed timer set for. Excuse the voice recognition. Do you keep yours in individual containers or all-in-one flat?

Dr. Mannors, are you in zone 9 or zone 10.... I am in South Florida and I am on the Intracoastal.... I get a lot of wind too.... do you think the Zone 10 would still need direct sun.... do you have problems with wind where you are?

Thanks

Sharon

I have a liquid Root Tone and I just dip the cutting in and stick it. I didn't care for the powder because it did seem to cake up on the cuttings. I use seed starter soil because it's the lightest soil I've found and drains really well. The cuttings go straight out into full sun with my seedlings I don't baby anything.

Seil, are you saying that as soon as you stick cuttings you put them in full sun? How hot does it get where you are? When you say " seed starter soil" do you mean the stuff that looks like peat/ vermiculite?

Does anyone use fungicide on their cuttings? Rootone used to have Captan in it. I think a Captan drench might be useful.

I have some varieties that are consistently hard to root. Some of them used to be easy to root and no longer are, such as Grandmother's Hat, The Bishop, and Cardinal de Richelieu. I have no idea why. Others always have been hard such as Gertrude Jekyll. Am wondering if I need to try a misting system. Have been rooting roses for 15 years or so but evidently need to keep learning. I have found that some varieties root better in cooler temps, even in winter.

Malcolm , do you have any pictures of your misting system?

I'll try to answer all the questions about Florida Southern College's mist system. It is outdoors in Lakeland Florida (Zone 9B). Side walls are about 7 feet tall, of corrugated fiberglass, and with sliding glass shower doors in front. So the entire bed is surrounded by high walls, to block the wind. On the other hand, there is no roof or shading of any kind overhead. The bench is expanded metal, and sits 20 inches above the ground (for convenience, and also to meet nematode certification requirements to ship out of state). We have a series of mist nozzles over the top that spray for about 9 seconds, every five minutes, during daylight hours. The system shuts off at night.

We most often root in 2.5x2.5x6" "band" pots, placed 25 per tray. But we've used many other containers as well.

Sharon, I know many people do root roses in partial shade, some with considerable success. But for maximum success, I recommend full noon sun. The cuttings never get too hot, since the mist keeps the surfaces damp all the time, and the mist bed is open to the outdoor air. So on a 95°F day, the plant surfaces will be several degrees cooler than that.

Our mist system looks prety rickety, but it survived Hurricane Irma (category 3 here) with just a hole in one wall panel. Cuttings did not blow over and were fine.

You'll notice that the interior of the system is covered with algae, slime molds, etc. That seems to have no effect on rooting -- we seldom have any problem with cuttings rotting.

Yep, outside in the sun, uncovered, with my seedling crop from this year. In June, when I do my cuttings, it gets in the mid 80s for highs, usually, lol. I check them twice a day for water but I usually only have to water them once a day in the morning. I only water twice if it does get way hot in the afternoon.

Yes, the seed starter soil you use for those seed trays to start plants with in the early spring. It's like dust it's so fine and it drains super well. I stick mine in 16 oz. clear plastic cups so I can see when they have roots.

I don't spray anything anymore Like I said, I don't baby them. They have to tough it out or they go! That goes for wintering too. They winter outside in my winter pot ghetto with all the other potted roses. No matter how big or small they are.

Thanks Seil and Malcolm! I'd love to see any small misting system set ups also.

Will think about trying that, and the seed starter mix. That's interesting that you leave your potted plants outside all winter in MI.

That's fantastic! I love the shower doors. Maybe when I make a more permanent greenhouse, I will use some recycled shower doors! Thanks for sharing photos and info. I know you are busy, so its very much appreciated!

I use a rooting powder, lightly scar the base, dip them in the powder and use rooting cubes and a mini greenhouse setup, I mist the cuttings with a spray bottle once daily and keep the box in an area inside that gets several hours of indirect sunlight daily. One of the benefits of living in a legal marijuana state like California is that there are many stores that sell products that pot growers use for cloning plants from cuttings that adapt perfectly for rose propagation.

What Are those rooting cubes? I really like that little setup. What sort of success rate do you get?

Vaporvac, they are rock wool rooting cubes, I'm getting better the more that I do it.

https://www.amazon.com/Rockwool-Stonewool-Cuttings-Propagation-Hydroponic/dp/B07KBZM7GN/ref=sr_1_3?crid=12NBMAX1X3S6J&keywords=rooting+cubes&qid=1566323268&s=gateway&sprefix=rooting+cubes%2Caps%2C198&sr=8-3

Malcolm, one thing that strikes me about your pictures is that the plants are very leafy. I'm wondering if you leave a lot of leaves on when you take the cuttings or if these are well-rooted, more mature plants that are still in your misting area. I would think if they are well-rooted plants that they wouldn't need mist in FL. I usually just leave a couple of leaves on a cutting when I stick it. Another question, since your mist system keeps plants moist, do you ever have to water them? Does the mist cause more blackspot problems?

erasmus, I had the same question concerning the leaves. I thought perhaps with the mist there is less leaf loss so more surface area to transport nutrients to spur root growth. I'm not sure I'm explaining that correctly.

Mathew, that's fantastic. Thank you! I restore Chambers stoves and rockwool is the insulation inside. I know all the others who do the same often need to add new so I'm going to see from where they get theirs. However, does it drain easily. When I use fine sand it didn't and all my cuttings rotted. :(( I hadn't read the part that is was course, gritting sand.

I just bought the new Greg Grant/Bill Welch book entitled The Rose Rustlers - it is an excellent book, highly recommended! In it, Greg states that he uses Dip & Gro - there is a good chapter on rooting - it encouraged me to give it a try.

Judith

Erasmus, We always leave at least 2 full leaves, but I figure the more the better, so especially with Fortuniana, which has tiny leaves, we often leave 5 or more. The photos show little or no new growth -- that's the way they went in. Our mist is heavy enough that it keeps the potting mix above field capacity, so no, we don't water them while they are in there. We tend to remove them from the mist to the greenhouse when we see roots poking out the bottom of the pot, which us usually 19-28 days (quicker with higher temperatures). The nice thing about the mist is that the cuttings are never water-stressed at all, so there is no disadvantage to leaving a lot of leaves attached.

I have another question! how long do you keep the left over mixed up hormone? do you throw it out or do you save it for next time? if you keep it should it be refrigerated?

Lesli if that was for us and Dip-N-Grow, we never keep it overnight. But we just mix a small amount -- usually 1/2 Tbsp plus the appropriate amount of water. It probably could be refrigerated, sealed tightly, but we don't. If you leave the container open, the concentration will change, since the base material was alcohol-based.

ok. I have it in a tiny mason jar it's left over two different times I may give it a try.

Sounds like a mist system is the magic carpet. I talked to my husband about it, thinking about rigging one up. I like the idea of being able to have them in more sun.

Malcolm or others, why do you think some varieties are harder to root than others? Seems like mosses and roses with many fine prickles can be harder. Am wondering if my parent plants are now in too much shade.

I bought some Hormodin 2 which arrived yesterday. It's a whole pound of it. I'm going to dole it out into a little medicine bottle to keep the rest of it fresh. I didn't have good luck with Dip n Grow but then I didn't follow directions. I left cuttings in the stuff too long, several minutes, and used a higher concentration.

Vaporvac, that's cool about restoring old stoves. When we bought our house about 32 years ago it had an old gas stove with chrome top. I forget the name. It developed problems one by one and I finally gave it away and got a new stove. I still like the old stoves. Have seen two woodburning old stoves recently and wouldn't mind having one.

Since you work with rock wool maybe you already know there are some health hazards to it. I think mainly breathing in tiny fibers.

Thank you. I wear protective clothing for most things I do, even gardening. Glasses, denim, gloves, steel toe shoes, dust masks when mixing soil, ear plugs when mowingl. It's a good practice regardless. There is a misconception that rw contains asbestos, which isn't true, nor is it similar to fiberglass. My worry is that it would retain too much water and rot the cuttings, but worth an experiment with some leftovers. I generally use wood chips for my best results. I had total failure with seed starting mix as it was too water retentive. I'd really like to try pine bark fines, but now all I can find is coconut coir. : ((

Not to go to off-topic, but I'll post a pic of my stove in a bit if I can find one. Given yours was chrome topped, it was probably a Chambers. They are super simple to fix and about the best stove to cook with. It's not too late to get another one! :))

Erasmus, I don't know why some varieties/classes are more difficult than others, but it's surely true. And I agree that the really thorny stuff is often a challenge (but not always). When we use Hormodin, we scoop out about a tablespoon (with a clean, dry spoon) onto a piece of paper or small dish, and use that, avoiding contaminating the main stock container. Then when finished, we throw out the small remaining amount, since it is invariably damp at that point.

I bought some seed starting mix a day or two ago and will try it but must say it doesn't seem well aerated to me. I use it for seeds but it does retain water.

Right now I have a bag of moist perlite with leafless cuttings in it in my fridge to see what happens. Our weather forecast is looking good for the next two weeks ..today being the last really hot day perhaps. I've been waiting for a break in the heat to take some more prized cuttings. Have been sticking cuttings in the heat anyway of varieties which have a lot of available stems. Maybe until I get a misting system I could just set up a sprinkler on a timer and that would be good enough to allow cuttings to be in more sun.

Here is a stove on ebay similar to mine though mine was not a Wedgewood or a Chambers. Mainly I assumed that modern stoves would be safer, and the oven bigger and more accurate. They don't have the character of the old ones though.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Wedgewood-Gas-Stove-30s-40s-White-in-great-working-condition/293189966275?hash=item44437bd9c3:g:fYQAAOSwsvJdVjRC

Vaporvac when you say you use wood chips to root cuttings do you mean mulch? I have not seen pine fines in the stores here but there is some fairly fine pine bark mulch. I have not had luck with potting soil mixed with perlite. I've used sand, even fine sand for 15 years and mostly had very good results. Not so much lately.

erasmus, I had an oak tree downed a while ago, and I just use those chips generally sifting out the larger pieces. My success rate skyrocketed, although it's worked less well as its composted. Pine bark fines used to be sold as 'wood conditioner', but seems to have been replaced in the BBstores. I'm sure it's till available online. I've considered calling a mulch place to see if they'd sell me a small bit as they do use it in soil mixes. Fine sand was bust as said. I've read gritty sand is what to use, but I didn't read that part. when I started : (( Potting mix with perlite also didn't work. Big drainage holes are important, also. I would set the cutting up on something and try putting the sprinkler on a time. That's a great idea!

OT stoves. Actually, almost any older stove is more accurate due to the by-pass Tstat they used. All modern stoves use an on/off Tstat so there is a wide fluctuation in oven temp with it over and under-shooting the desired temp to average the 'set' temp. It's an all or nothing flame and much cheaper to manufacture. A by-pass Tstat turns off the large flame as the temp nears and goes to a low flame until the desired temp is reached and stays on until the temp falls. Then the large flame comes on and the cyle begins anew. This is why grandma often complained that her new-fangled stove that the kids bought didn't bake as well as her old faithful. It didn't because the temp didn't hold steady. Of course, one of Chambers claims to fame was that it was so well insulated with rock wool, that one actually turned off the oven partway through and finished cooking it on retained heat as it was so well insulated.

Regarding oven size, I also have a GE Monogram convection oven and thought I would season my cast iron oven baffle in it, but it didn't fit. It's deeper and less wide, but larger than my modern one. This is because of the fan in back I suppose. Anyway, I could bore one to tears with this conversation, but I do love my stoves and now so do all my friends! : ))

I will try some fine bark mulch if I can find it.

OT Stoves: I think maybe my stove was a Wedgewood. It's been about 13 years since we had it and I don't remember, but it looks like a Wedgewood I've seen pics of. I had to turn the heat up on the oven about 100 degrees higher. Various things quit working on it...burners didn't burn evenly, pilot didn't work, oven door screw fell out , spring on the door fell off. I miss it though. Although you find them easy to fix the local appliance people seemed at a loss, partly due to parts not being locally available. I think my current oven works well for baking.

I just got my order in for the Antique Rose Emporium Labor day special --free shipping event. Is there anyone in scorching hot south central Texas that has grown Duke of Edinburgh, Parade, Bolero, or Mier Y Teran? Can you share your experience?

OT stoves: I hope you didn't think I was dissing your current stove! I'm a firm believer that one can cook on anything and put out a great meal. It's the cook, not the equipment! Wedgewoods are popular out west it seems. Chambers were popular in Tx, the midwest and NY. I find them easy to fix because the instruction maintenance manuals are still available with exacting instructions for assembly and calibration. I'd have been at a loss without those things. I don't mean to laugh, but it's a great picture you draw of the poor thing slowly falling apart. I can only imagine the frustration.

Could anyone provide details on what mist systems and timers they use perhaps with actual brands. Also, various misting intervals and reason for such as well as the distance from the cuttings. Is anyone doing this inside? I would really appreciate any help with that.

I have seen some mist systems at Lowe's - they have them in the summer, I think they might be for people to use on patios, they have smaller and larger ones. They look neat, not expensive and I am tempted to try one. Has anyone used these? I have some coconut coir - have read this is good to start cuttings in - maybe mix it with other things - gritty sand, perlite, seed starting mix? Any thoughts on this? I have not gotten serious about cuttings in the past but have a few roses I cannot replace and with spring pruning coming up, would like to set up something to utilize these cuttings. I do have Dip N Gro, havent tried it yet. This is a really informative thread!

Judith

I have one of those misters, but haven't set it up yet. It should work fine if you have a timer and will allow you to put the cutting in more sun which pushes faster growth. I can't suggest further ideas for medium except to say that easier and quicker drainage is the key for me. Be sure you have large enough holes in your pots. Seed starting mix was a total failure for me, but others have succeeded with it. Peat retains the water too well for my environment. I would definitely try to follow Malcolm M's instructions above.