Katya, your ideas sound wonderful. Full lush gardens like Marlorena has created are lovely, and spare gardens like Ingrid has created are magnificent. It depends on your taste and area and they both can be great. If blackspot is a big concern in your area and you wanted a lushly planted rose garden, you could select BS resistant varieties so the poor air circulation would be less of a concern. You really have to experiment and see what does well for you and what you end up with after you make a plan. Plants don't always follow the rules either. Have fun with it all.

I think spacing of plants is always an issue in everyone's garden. It's a lot of researching and then trial and error. I have areas where some stuff has grown too much and other areas that are still not the right height or width. Thank goodness for annuals to fill in bare spots sometimes. I have also moved roses after a few years, because they have not filled their alloted spaces properly. I also live in an area where most roses are knocked back by winter and have to regrow each year. So for example, Teasing Georgia is a large rose for many, but mine only grows to maybe a maximum 5-6 feet high x 3-4 wide each season. But other roses stated to get to 4-5 feet in warmer climates; only grow to 3 feet here. This forum has been very helpful for finding answers about growth size of many roses for me.

I saw that same video and it really had me re considering how close to plant my roses and it seems like if I do 3' between them they pretty much all come together but for my Arbor I'm using 2 on each side and not 3 but thou be much closer together maybe a foot and a 1/2

I agree with all the posts here. This is something that affects every gardener. In my garden I have a lot of blackspot and the roses seem to grow quickly as they do not seem to loose much in the winter. I also like the super full look you mention in your garden so I have planted mine around 2 feet apart or some times even 18 inches apart. This has mostly worked but nothing is perfect. I discovered now I have to be very aggressive pruning or I have a huge messy forest. I prune hard winter and late summer to keep the garden from looking to overgrown. I still like the overall effect, but now with a tiny bit more knowledge of how Austin’s grow in my climate I think 2 1/2 to 3 feet will be better with a few exceptions of those roses that have a more narrow habit.

I’ll try to find pictures of some of my plantings at first year vs. 3 so you can see how the fill up and maybe it will help.

One thing to keep in mind is the visual illusion created of closely planted plants in so-called lush-looking gardens. When I show pictures of larger sections of my garden (that is, I have to stand back farther in order to get the wider view in), they give the impression that my plants are nearly growing on top of each other. However, if you walked up to within a couple feet from those plants, you would see that they actually have a fair amount of space around them and the tips of one rose are NOT overlapping the branches of another rose--though that is the way they looked in the picture.

Another point: no young garden will probably give you much of that lush quality you desire. The plants need to mature--let's say, 4-6 years old--and get LOTS of water. Then they will start looking quite lush--at least in the regions I'm used to gardening in. (I never gardened in a semi-desert area, for instance.)

I've been gardening for over 30 years and this summer had the lushest looking gardens I ever had--mainly due to the unusually wet summer we experienced (climate change!)--and plants that are definitely mature.

I usually leave about 2-3 feet between roses, depending on how wide they spread or vertical they grow. However, some roses sprawl all over the place--like my hybrid musks. Buff Beauty has been known to form branches over 7 ft long. Obviously I would not plant anything just a couple feet away from her. (Besides, her prickles bite!)

Kate

Here planted at 3 feet on first year

Same area 2nd year

Here they are planted at 2 feet max.

plants in the background are 2 boscobel and 2 Desdemona on 2nd year and foreground has lichfield angel on first year.

Here bosco and Desdémona are 3rd year and lichfield angel has filled in. The smaller distance has worked on this bed because neither of these mentioned roses seems to grow big here.

So in my 7b lots of rain warm garden my proper spacing ranges from 3 feet to 2 feet for the usual David Austin roses as long as I am willing to prune hard 2 times a year. If I would have known better I could have expanded the measurements and done less pruning. In your colder zone my measurements may work for you if your winter help you “self prune”. Good luck with your garden. It is fun to experiment even if things don’t turn out exactly how you imagined it.

For me it depends on the variety and the micro-climate of their bed. Some roses also surprise! What I did was find folks that grew "my" roses in a similar climate and saw how they grew for them and adjusted these sizes for my yard. So far so good, but Summer Romance gets much bigger than anticipated and Dark Desire much more narrow especially with winter die-back. I only prune once and wouldn't want to "have" to do it more as it's enough dead-heading and cutting back laterals on climbers which I know is pruning. I also have found that some larger roses need to get a certain size before blooming well. As in DBay's garden, the roses also look closely planted from afar, but actually have some space around them for maintenance when seen up close. It is sometimes a prickly problem where they've really intertwined. I try to give their roots a wide berth with companion plantings and find they have done better that way. When things clearly don't work out the shovel moves them either a bit or to another spot. I'm not one to get rid of a rose at this point. I think it's pretty, but your vision may be different.

My only rule is: never plant a rose directly on top of another rose.

I've considered planting more than one rose per side on arbors, because of my zone, but when I see the roses growing on arbors at Northland, same zone, but with more wind because they're located on a high prairie, and see how completely covered their arbors are with only one rose per side, I back down and don't do it.

It also depends on the rose. I planted a tiny, and I mean tiny, band of Peggy Martin on my widest, tallest arbor last fall. It is halfway to the top and spreading out to cover the picket fence the arbor is attached to, in 1 year's time. In this case, one was more than enough. I also have an old rambler, one plant, that is eating both side of an arbor. So, it's impossible to make hard and fast plans.

I like to plant a clematis with climbers, so there's that, too.

I plant my garden roses close enough that they can mingle. I love the look. If they don't grow to expectations, I plant perennials between them, but I try to also leave enough space to step inside the beds for deadheading and pruning. I will add that it's dry here and fungal diseases are rare.

Oh Thank you everyone! All this makes it so much easier for me. I feel I got over a hump I could not cross before.

dianela thank you for taking the time to find and post those pictures! So helpful. Its a great place to start the 2-1/2 to 3 feet (give or take) separation between rose bushes. It will help me a lot in my planning. I know it wont be perfect but it will be mostly wonderful. Your roses look so lovely and healthy! What a pleasure it must be to see so much growth.

flowers: I really understand how you cant make hard and fast plans, as you say.

I am giving some serious consideration to Peggy Martin. Does this rose bloom through out the season for you? Or one big spring flush and then few blooms? How is the fragrance?

I was also wondering how one takes care of roses at the back or inside the border. When you step in it does not compact the soil too much? And I hope I can get my roses to mingle successfully ;)

I feel much more confident now!

Katya, you're right - stepping inside the rose beds isn't a good idea. I try to take as few steps as possible inside then reach as much as I can from there. Most of my beds are deeper than a typical border.

Peggy Martin had a very good flush for a baby band early summer, and has bloomed off and on since. The barn crew piled lumber and parked heavy machinery in front of her. I couldn't get close enough to water her for 1 1/2 weeks, but she's thriving. I don't remember if she has a scent or not. I just noticed tonight that she's more than 3/4 of the way to the top, not 1/2 like I said earlier. Seems to be new growth on her every time I check. She survived winter without protection. Her pliable canes are easy to train.

Thank you flowers! If you have time please post a picture of your arbor and young PM. Would Love to see it! :)

I have stepping stone paths winding throughout my larger beds. That way, I can almost always reach the plants without having to compact the soil.

Kate

Beautiful, Kate. I'm planning to do that in a newer, wider area I'm working on. I have placed just one or two inside the border, but an entire pathway between the roses is ideal. I think it adds to the appeal as well.

Wow Jeri your Mel’s heritage is just amazing. Gorgeous arbor.

Kate I love your garden and the stepping stones are such a wonderful idea. They are not only very useful but beautiful as well.

Jeri, you do climbers so very well! They look just full enough, but not crazy out of control. Brilliant! I have a Mel just because of this one of yours. (And Lisa helped to seal the deal on him!)

I‘m going to copy your stepping stone idea, Kate—also brilliant! :-)

Kate, how do you keep your stepping stones paths free of weeds? They do look great...

Spacing is one of my worst conundrums. Even after 20 years, I still don't feel like I've got it figured out. The fact that I can't water and coddle my roses after their first year, coupled with the fact that I've had to start from scratch as far as soil is concerned means that as a rule they tend to grow very slowly. But then some prove to be very vigorous, and take off,whilst others grow backwards...

Bart--the same old-fashioned way I keep the rose beds free of weeds. A lot of hand weeding!

But the results are worth the effort. : )

Kate