It's two can lights and a pendant in between. We don't have to pay for anything that they did wrong. It's in the blueprint to have it centered. The construction manager is just bad and didn't care. We have four other rooms in the house with lights off-center that he's having to fix as well as a bunch of other fixes that could have been avoided.

I think you can clearly tell lights are off-center in a dining room when you put the table in and you can't center the table with the lights.

If you are buying a new construction home, and the builder is making changes as you describe without additional cost to you, he should be nominated for sainthood.

I disagree when he didn't follow the blueprint and the lights should've been centered from the beginning but I guess some people like to get away with awful work. The ceiling joist was clearly not supposed to be placed where it was because this is not a problem in anyone else's home with the same plan.

The small pancake boxes are usually not allowed any more. But the 6 cubic inch boxes should be OK, if wiring with 14/2 conductor. Otherwise, depending on type of fixture, a small extension ring might work. Check with your local building inspector.

Notching might or might not be needed and/or legal. Depends on what exactly is in the way. If it isn't legal and if you absolutely need just a little more space, then as a last resort, drop the ceiling by a tiny little bit.

As I said, there always are options. It just depends on the precise site conditions and on what you're willing to do.

Have you talked with the electrician? if I had to go up into attic to check clearance for lighting I would. But I‘d like to know exactly what is going on before I go after the manger. The vent would really bug me. If you have to eliminate the two can lights to get the dinning light centered, could you live with that?

Were there dimensions on the construction drawings that showed where the lights were to be located exactly?

Many times the rough carpenters that install the joists and trusses do not refer to the electrical plan to determine where the trusses and rafters should be located to avoid light fixture placement. Even if they did there are many other factors that influence the truss and joist layout such as economy of materials. The trusses or joists could be located to avoid conflicts with light fixture locations, but this may mean and inefficient use of material and be more expensive to build.

Sometimes moving a light fixture in a direction parallel to the trusses or joists can be relatively easy to do, but moving a light fixture perpendicular to the trusses or joists could involve reframing the structure and sometimes may involve and engineer.

ldecor54I could live with that so that might be the solution. We're very lucky we upgraded that light to be a pendant light since they were all supposed to be recessed can lights.

Mark, if he did not follow the blueprint as shown, he is at fault. Surely you can see that?

To the original poster,

Is the room positioned in a way that the only way to put the table is centered? I ask because in my dining room, it shows the light centered but I will be making sure we off center it because of how I want to position my table (open concept home). One option...is the can lights necessary? Can a larger light fixture with multiple bulbs versus a pendant work? If you got rid of the cans, then I don't see a problem in having it centered since cans do take up more space up above with their box & all. As for the vent, It may or may not need moved but I do think it would look better if it wasn't so close to the fixture. Seems a little odd but maybe it's the norm in some places. Mine are typically at least a couple feet away from the nearest fan or light fixture.

Mark Bischak, Architect Yes, there were dimensions noted on the drawing as well as for our lights over the kitchen island, all of which were still placed incorrectly. Again, this is not an issue in any other house with the same floorplan so why was our house constructed differently?

in the end, you can always swag a chandy.
btw. is the square cutout a duct that should be sealed?

This is why you use remodel cans on new construction. Fish the wire, drywall, cut the cans exactly where they go. Duh.

You’ll need to confirm the as-built joist/truss placement and if yo can access any of the original drawings To see what the difference is. Can you post the drawings you have of this space?

The angle of the photo might be "off" but looking at this photo they may have done you a big favor. If the lights were centered on the area between the two windows it would leave you with zilch in the way of fitting table and chairs that can be pulled out on the left side. Not certain of the whole space. The windows look like they are relatively narrow in width and the average table depth is 42". I think they centered the light on the windows on the left. I think your larger concern is where they have placed what I am assuming is your heating and air vent. Each time that cuts off and on and blows it is likely to move your light fixture. Generally vents are placed along the outside of a room.

Everybody can make mistakes. I don't usually hold it against anyone, because I know that I am far from perfect either. What matters is how we deal with the mistake. I expect people to work together to fix the problem.

In this scenario, it is quite possible that the architect made a mistake in the drawings, and the fixtures were placed into a location where they physically didn't fit. That happens. No big deal. Those things happen.

But when it is noticed by the electrician, there are two possible courses of action:

1. ignore the architectural drawings and place the fixtures where they are convenient to install, or
2. take a break and ask the homeowner and/or architect how to resolve this situation. That might very well result in finding a new location, finding new fixtures, or coming up with a more elaborate solution to still make everything fit where it was intended to go.

As a homeowner, I'd be quite upset, if the electrician picked #1 and if this was something that was important to my overall design, I'd insist that they fix it. On the other hand, if they had called for a meeting (i.e. option #2), I'd have been amenable to any reasonable compromise. Occasionally, things just have to be adjusted in the field.

And to be honest, I am not overly impressed with a design that puts can lights around a chandelier. There's bound to be a nicer lighting solution. But we don't know what the rest of the room looks like nor what the furniture will eventually look like. So, it's really hard to say. Also, there always is the question of money. These days, there are some amazingly gorgeous lighting products out there; but they often cost a huge premium.

Take a look at these can lights: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07CQ6N863

I am not saying you need to buy this particular model. I don't actually have any first-hand experience with it and thus cannot comment either for or against. But it is just one of many examples that allow you to fit can lights into super confined spaces.

Why would you want cans there is the first place, along with a chandelier? The cans belong toward the corners.

It really depends on what the furniture in that room will eventually look like. Presumably, this was a discussion that they already had with their architect. But that doesn't necessarily mean the architect spent a lot of thought on lighting. Some architects are good at this; many others, not quite so much.

Personally, I like a larger number of smaller can lights so that the room is illuminated evenly. That also means, I'd stay clear of bulky furniture, and I'd stay clear of the area around the pendant/chandelier. Don't want to cast strange shadows.

Do you own the land already and are using the builder or does the builder own the land until you close?

"Again, this is not an issue in any other house with the same floorplan so why was our house constructed differently?"

So this is a tract home. Most all the contracts/drawings state reasonable facsimile and they do have the right to make slight changes without your knowledge. It is unfortunate and you will not like it but it will be noted that way or similar in your contract. I am afraid all the complaining int he world will not change this. And the PM that told you they would change/modify it probably got his ass chewed out and that is why his tune changed.

I don't understand why you just noticed this now. After drywall and taping is done. Were you not watching when work was being done. Things happen, even with plans. Every home I have built we have been on site to make sure things are done the way we wanted them - even tho we had plans.

Please post an image of the construction drawing that shows the dimensioned location of the light fixtures so we may see how furniture can be located.

I'd have the recessed light fixtures taken out altogether. Chandeliers, sconces and table lamps work best for lighting dining rooms. I only have recessed cans in kitchens and bathrooms.

Honestly it would drive me nuts. I spent a day realigning the can lights in our existing home to hit the floor area correctly in the kitchen / around the island. It was a challenge to work around 2nd floor joists and get something that aligned from all angles. I this instance - if the table has to be centered under the lights, which get centered in the room - it's bad... BUT is the room wide enough for a sideboard or other piece of furniture on the one side to move the table over to the side?

It's going to be a fight - but - it is one that will bother you. Ultimately - the builder CAN change the design slightly without your permission - so you'll have to decide how much this bothers you.

"if he did not follow the blueprint as shown, he is at fault. Surely you can see that?"

This is not necessarily true.

First, if this is a tract or production builder, it is his house until you buy it and he doesn't have to follow any plan other than what is demanded by code enforcement. The only question is whether or not this constitutes a material breach of the contract, and I will give you a hint, it doesn't.

Furthermore, even if you owned the land and this was a fully custom home this would be a tough case. A builder must perform to the standard practice in the industry, without conspicuous notation you can't hold him to a higher standard. If he can show that this is typical in the industry then it is likely not a material breach.

So I would advise you work under the assumption that they are not going to get centered. Personally I would ask that two more be added and that they get spread apart. You can then maintain symmetry.

I disagree that cans are a poor choose over a dining table - but these are the wrong type of can for the purpose. They should be adjustable MR-16 or LED fixtures with a slot trim. This allows the table to be accurately and fully lit without having the chandelier at full-blast, which creates lots of glare and blinds the diners. As the true source of the light is hidden by the slot trims, it makes it look like the chandelier is providing the light. If you have a particularly nice wood table, it really enhances its beauty, and makes the rest of your dining finery seem to glow.

As noted by millworkman above, tract house contracts typically have wording allowing for minor changes. I only built custom or semi-custom, so this particular issue fortunately never came up!

How some sub-division builders allow homebuyers to wander through their construction sites at will boggles the mind.

This allows the table to be accurately and fully lit without having the chandelier at full-blast,

Newsflash! Even chandeliers can be put on dimmers. And just a chandelier looks so much more elegant than cans in a dining room ceiling.

Install a J-box for a surface mounted pendant...locate the pendant over the center of the table location.

The location of the cans will become a non-issue.

Agreed. Remove the can lights entirely. They don't make sense in that area anyways.

@cpartist: That’s exactly my point. Using a chandelier in conjunction with small recessed spot lights with a pin/slot trim allows you to dim the chandelier to a comfortable level while separately controlling the actual illumination of the table.

The recessed lights on dimmer controls will help the overall lighting flexibility in the space. Combined with a pendant on a dimmer, the illumination flexibility will be wide ranging.

Centering the pendant in the room isn't always the best idea. Figure where your table and chairs will be placed, then center light over "your" table.

Yes, if the pendant has enough electric cord and a ceiling drop, it can be placed wherever needed to center over the table.

It’s not always possible to center if it wasn’t planned into the roof support system (usually trusses). The truss or beam could be running directly where you went the recessed light to be, and they absolutely cannot cut it to put the box for the light in there.

An image of the plan that shows the dimensioned locations of the lights in the dining area are critical to determine how this issue is best resolved. Without it we can only assume the light fixtures and junction boxes were placed as close to the center of the room within the structural and mechanical constraints that existed at the time. Normally locations of light fixtures are not dimensioned on construction documents for a house and even less likely for a tract home.

Dropped ceiling light box tutorial:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gh0idPhtf10

It's a 'track' home......track houses are JUNK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.........period!!!!! I've watched hundreds and hundreds being built over the last several decades. The MOST expensive item you will EVER purchase!!!!!!! It's ALL about how much money they can MAKE!!!!!!!! PERIOD!!!!!!!!

Robin, "Tract Homes" simply mean a residential development with similar elevations and floor layouts.

Not all "Tract Homes" are junk... Junk homes being this a 400k home or a 5m dollar home depends on who is building them or who is in charge of running the job and most guys I know and friends with, they are very good builders with an outstanding reputation... and a few I know who couldn't build a house if their life would depend on it.

"Most "Tract Home" developments they're not "Custom Friendly" this why if you want to change something, even something simple as adding a row of lights it will cost you an arm and a leg.

This is why they send customers to select materials, most have a showroom set up on-site in a trailer or in a model house and you have 3 choices to choose of tile, granite, cabinetry, flooring, etc If you fish to go with something else it will cost you an arm and a leg.

Basically every house comes in a basic bundle and they have a model house with price tags where they display extra items that you can upgrade,i.e a deck or a patio, finished basement, lighting or trim package, hardwood instead of carpet etc and that's it...

As the general quality of construction goes, it's no different than a million-dollar home, because material comes from the same lumber yards, etc and 90% of the time same framers and same contractors work on basic and custom homes, the only difference is on the tract development they give a framing package cost lets say 10k per home and on a million-dollar home it will be 20-30k depends on the home plus extras. If the electrical basic package per home on the Tract Home development is 7-8k on a million-dollar home it will be 16-18k plus extras...

These are track builders:

Where are the emojis when you need them? That is hilarious @bry911

And someone actually painted each of those tires...think about that!

I have to give you credit GN Builders. If I doidn't know any better I would swear you were new here as that took patience to answer robin0919 that most don't have.................................

Its a small space you dont need cans. As noted above just use a centered light fixture. Unless you have artwork that needs to be illuminated that space doesn't need any cans.

Cans are for large rooms to illuminate areas not hit by the chandelier or light fixture. Easy fix!

Its sometimes difficult to plan the truss layout to center recessed lights, especially if needed in several rooms. We place ours in groups of 4, which are easier to find equal spacing, and most of our homes have centered hanging fixtures which will work in pan cake boxes.

Tract or production homes are the assembly line version of a home... affordable via mass production, standardized designs and finishes. Managing changes is expensive, but is also a profit center for many tract oriented builders and vendors. Some will offer a Model T ("any color as long as its black") while some will offer an Escalade or F150 Raptor at $100K+

If you're at tract walkthrough and the home doesn't meet a standard you've seen in the models (not including extras) then you should have the right to walk and get a refund, but is that where you want to battle? No builder will move a truss.

I usually just throw in lights in a random patternless layout. The electrician most often places them in a logical aesthetically pleasing layout and becomes a hero.

(just kidding)

For the comfort of guests and to create an aesthetically pleasing atmosphere it is best to include downlights with a chandelier or pendent - regardless of room size. This allows the chandelier to be at a pleasant dim level while the downlights provide adequate light for guests to eat.

I would normally do 4 downlights somewhere along lines radiating out from the center of the table to the corners. About 1/4 in from the table corners often works well. That might be a solution in this case. The chandelier can be placed in the center regardless of trusses. Then find locations for 4 cans that are symetrical about the center, along the lines I mentioned above and without truss interference.

Abandon the 2 recessed lights near the room center. Keep the pendant and center it by using ceiling escutcheon. You can later locate & place wafer LED lights after the room is furnished, they go in the drywall ceiling and are not affected by the trusses. Same for floor outlets if there is access below, we don’t drill holes through until the furniture is located.

You may be able to remove the offending ceiling joist by replacing it with two joists, one on each side of the one you remove. By code, ceiling joists have to be no more than a certain distance apart, such as 24 inches or whatever, depending on the size of lumber and design of the roof structure. Doing this could be easy or very difficult, depending on what's going on above your ceiling. This probably wouldn't work if there is another story over your dining room rather than an attic.

It occurs to me that you might be able to get things centered if you put in a second row of lights.