palci

Help regarding bathroom

PP
September 30, 2019
last modified: September 30, 2019

We are building a house And need help with bathroom. Please see the plan picture.

We wound like to keep the Vanities/wash basin space 5’ even on both the sides of the Tub. Currently at 4' for Men and 6' for women. We think 4' is on smaller side.


For make up vanity, there is enough space in the Master Closet near the window.

Challenge would be to keep it symmetrical on the other side and also keep the toilet size comfortable.


At present to maintain symmetry, Toliet is 6’ and Coffee/linen is 4’ on opposite side between the shower. There is a window opposite shower behind the tub.

Master toilet size is 6’x 3’4”


Should we leave it at Toilet 6' and Coffee/Linen 4' or should we change it to toilet 5’6” with a Pocket door and Coffee/linen area 4’ 6”?


Will the asymmetry be even noticeable if toilet size decreased?


Master suite toilet- if decreases to 3’4”x5’ 5” will it a good size toilet? Or should be keep it at 3’ 4” x 6’ as it is. We want toilet size to be good size and at the same time worry about asymmetry as changing the size of vanity/wash basin opposite it.


We we don’t plan to change master bathroom size.


will appreciate input.


Thanks.


Comments (49)

  • decoenthusiaste

    If you want symmetry then you'll have to move the tub and shower and lose some of the WC or turn it the other way and mess up the symmetry even more. Tape out 4' on another vanity you or a friend/relative has now to see if it is really too small for a guy to wash, shave and comb.

    PP thanked decoenthusiaste
  • everdebz

    Seems that the bumpouts, especially of a bathtub in middle of room aren't appealing... unless middle had some kind of architectural vault or design.

    PP thanked everdebz
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  • everdebz

    Seeing coffee there makes me want to know if that's the door to bedroom, and so it there more traffic on that side?

    What if both large things [tub and shower] were far from bedroom, and sort of viewed and used there?

    PP thanked everdebz
  • live_wire_oak

    Symmetry is way overrated. The current design is functional. Dysfunctional changes to achieve symmetry are misguided.

    PP thanked live_wire_oak
  • thinkdesignlive

    No swing in door at toilet room. Swing out or pocket for safety reasons.

    PP thanked thinkdesignlive
  • PP

    At present there is symmetry based on current plan as shown . But if I make changes to Vanity then there won’t be symmetry.


    I personally feel 4’ vanity and wash basin is on smaller size so making changes.


    Should I still keep toilet same size or change it?


  • everdebz

    Symmetry isn't the only thing.... I am uncertain why... I thought there'd be balance with the 2 huge items at end of room, which seems a good thing also.

    PP thanked everdebz
  • persnicketydesign

    I'm sure you've already addressed the issue, but where are the shower controls going to be?

    PP thanked persnicketydesign
  • bpath Oh Sophie

    Can you explain the need for symmetry?

    PP thanked bpath Oh Sophie
  • bpath Oh Sophie

    Btw, strongly consider a single door to closet and bathroom. The double doors, while symmetrical, are problematic. Both usually have to be open to pass through the door; where do you put the light switches that is easy to reach immediately; and opening both may require both hands, and you may not always have both available if you carry anything like laundry or a package of toilet paper and toiletries.

    PP thanked bpath Oh Sophie
  • chicagoans

    So you're thinking of moving the tub to the left? Then will you move the window, too, to keep the tub aligned with / centered on the window? You need to think about how that will change the exterior.

    PP thanked chicagoans
  • catbuilder

    You'll never notice symmetry since you can't back up far enough to see it. You'll never be looking at it from above like you're looking at the plan. Do what works and forget about the false "symmetry". But I gotta say, coffee making in the bathroom is just ick.

    PP thanked catbuilder
  • chispa

    I would switch the toilet room with the vanity, because that would allow you to add a window to the toilet room. Vanity doesn't need to be on an outside wall.

    PP thanked chispa
  • just_janni

    Agree on the question about shower controls - you are going to get wet turning them on........... stuff like that is more important that 2D symmetry in your plan.

    There's also wasted space in front of that water closet - make it larger and swing the door out.

    Ditch the double doors. No one needs to enter their bathroom or closet with a flourish...

    PP thanked just_janni
  • Lindsey_CA

    "I gotta say, coffee making in the bathroom is just ick."

    Agreed!

    As for the difference in size of the man's vanity compared to the woman's vanity -- women generally have more stuff on the counter than men do, so they need more room.

    PP thanked Lindsey_CA
  • bpath Oh Sophie

    Ha ha, even most of the hotels I’ve been in lately have moved the little coffeemaker out of the bathroom!

    PP thanked bpath Oh Sophie
  • PRO
    Debbi Washburn

    I don't feel like you have to really do anything about the toilet room side... but I do feel like the vanities on each side of the tub may seem off. What I would suggest is get with your designer and have him/her put this into a design program so you can see it 3d - symmetry from a top view never works.

    I also feel like having the tub sticking far out from the vanities and having that enormous shower you have created a narrow space when you step out of the shower ( maybe 4ft? ) while there is much more space around the vanities.. I think you could take the shower back 6 - 8 " and it is still huge.

    You will need to double check the plans to see what would happen if you moved that window over 1 ft and centered that side - what does it look like from the outside of the house?

    On a side note - I have a tiny bathroom with a 27" vanity - I would kill for 48"! LOL

    Good luck - try to get a 3d picture of this space - it will help alot

    PP thanked Debbi Washburn
  • PRO
    Mark Bischak, Architect

    "Master toilet size is 6’x 3’4”"

    No it is not. The finished inside dimensions of you gas chamber will be 5'-5 1/2" x 2'-11 1/2", if the dimensions are to the face of the studs. The dimensions on the drawing provided include a wall thickness. The dimensions shown on the drawing is not what you perceive them to be.

    I avoid gas chambers. I avoid making an access to a clothes closet through a bathroom. I avoid forcing anyone to open two small doors to enter a room. I avoid insufficient space around a freestanding tub to properly clean. I avoid coffee stations within a bathroom. I avoid symmetrical designs that forgo function. I avoid having proceeds from ticket sales for the bleacher seats outside a master bathroom tub window to go to anything other than a reputable charity.

    PP thanked Mark Bischak, Architect
  • PRO
    Mark Bischak, Architect

    "Currently at 4' for Men and 6' for women."

    How many are you planning to use your master bathroom?

    PP thanked Mark Bischak, Architect
  • everdebz

    It understandably get to us when we're trying to build our best, but good design is worthy slowing down for... [wow for M.B's list]….

    PP thanked everdebz
  • Mrs Pete

    The lack-of-symmetry item that bothers me is that the two doors /the walking aisle don't line up. You wouldn't be able to walk straight through this room, and that's going to be annoying every single time you use the room.

    Consider your site lines upon entering the bathroom (from either direction); it's the corner of something ... a door straight ahead would be so much nicer.

    Imagine walking through with a laundry basket ... you're going to hit something.

    The second thing that bothers me is that the tub and the shower are the two "bulky-deep" items, and they are placed in the middle together, which narrows the walk aisles in the middle while allowing an excess of space in the rest of the room.

    So much space, so much empty space.

    Here's what I'd do -- note that cuts out about 3' of length, while keeping all the items the same size.

    - Line up the doors for a straight-through walk. This is still a wide, large bathroom.

    - Place the two "bulky-deep" items side-by-side. They'll fit nicely, though a free-standing tub will make cleaning more difficult. Where are your towels hanging?

    - This leaves the toilet and the vanity, which are both roughly the same depth, to share one side. Divide the two with a small pony wall ... something like this ... easier to clean, not locked away in a dark closet ... you could do a full-height wall just as easily:

    - Finally, ditch the coffee-in-the-bathroom. Consider trekking supplies from the kitchen to the bathroom. Consider toting mugs back and forth to the kitchen. This isn't a particularly practically idea.

    If you feel you MUST have it, use that 3' of space that I took away as an coffee space in an ante-room ... not in the actual bathroom itself.

    PP thanked Mrs Pete
  • Mrs Pete

    I personally feel 4’ vanity and wash basin is on smaller size so making changes.

    My husband and I share a 4' vanity with a single sink ... and
    I've never once wished the countertop were larger. I would like better
    storage. More-more-more often just invites clutter and is more to
    clean.

    No it is not. The finished inside dimensions of you gas chamber will be
    5'-5 1/2" x 2'-11 1/2", if the dimensions are to the face of the studs.
    The dimensions on the drawing provided include a wall thickness. The
    dimensions shown on the drawing is not what you perceive them to be.
    Yes,
    this room will be small ... and dark. Those aren't pleasant choices.
    Consider that both of my grandparents needed, um, specialty toiletry
    items near the toilet as they aged. Some modest storage in the toilet
    area would be wise ... even if you only need it for toilet paper now.

    PP thanked Mrs Pete
  • PP

    Thanks to everyone for replies. Much appreciated.

    We have made some changes. Changed vanity size to 5’ on either side. Make up vanity will be in master closet. Windows to help bring in natural light which should be useful when doing makeup.

    Made change to toilet size too.

    Shower heads will be on the side walls.

    Not sure why is it named Coffee/Linen as it will be for Linen only.

    I have posted few more photos. Will appreciate any feedback.

    Thank You






  • PRO
    Mark Bischak, Architect

    The revised layout is just as bad as before.

    PP thanked Mark Bischak, Architect
  • tatts

    Double doors, still? Who are you building this house for, Loretta Young? (google Loretta Young entrances).

    Every time you go through those doors--especially while carrying laundry--you will have to open both of them. I think they are silly, inconvenient, and pretentious in a home. I lived in a house with double front doors and it was a complete pain carrying groceries in.

    And I think that having the only access to the closet being through the bathroom is ridiculous--and gross.

    PP thanked tatts
  • Lindsey_CA

    "Make up vanity will be in master closet. Windows to help bring in natural light which should be useful when doing makeup."

    When I was younger, without back injuries that make it difficult to stand in one position for extended periods (more than 1.5 minutes, approx.), I couldn't understand why anyone would want/need to sit down to put on their makeup. Now, however, I find that I must. So, ok, you've now designed your makeup vanity to be in the closet, near a window.

    It's great that it's going to be near a window (at least, I hope it's near a window and not just in the same room as a window). BUT, for me, I need a sink nearby. If you use a BeautyBlender sponge (I do) you need to get it wet. If you use cake eyeliner (I do), you need to wet the eyeliner brush several times while applying. If you ever like to wash your hands in between makeup steps (sometimes I like to), you need a sink. And, I put my contact lenses in last - after I've applied all my makeup, and I must wash my hands before handling my lenses.

    I've seen lots of things that say you need at least 24" to 30" wide for the vanity area. All I need is a space 20" wide so that I can sit on a chair and skooch in under the counter. And a sink. Must have a sink.

    PP thanked Lindsey_CA
  • PP

    “The revised layout is just as bad as before.“

    @Mark Bischak, Architect

    I am neither builder or architect. This house is being built for us. Can you suggest what changes we need to make? It looks like I need to post the whole plan for the house ☹️

  • PRO
    Mark Bischak, Architect

    I have previously commented on certain features of your original design that I avoid, and they still exist in your current design. It is up to your designer to take the suggestions and make a better design. In doing so there may be other areas of the house that need to be effected, only your designer is aware of the design decisions that have been made so far and how they are prioritized.

    PP thanked Mark Bischak, Architect
  • PRO
    Mark Bischak, Architect

    "It looks like I need to post the whole plan for the house ☹️"

    WARNING: Posting your entire floor plan opens you up to facts you may not want to know, but should. Be prepared for suggestions that will make for a better design. Keep a thick skin, open mind, sense of humor, and a glass of wine within arms reach. You may not enjoy it, but everyone else will and you will be better off in the long run if you heed well the advice.

  • PRO
    RES 3d Sketches

    The shower is the elephant in the room. If you make it 6-0 instead of 6-8, hold the toilet room to the original dimension (5-8 inside?) and align the shower and tub, the large vanity would be 4" smaller (5-8) and the small vanity would be 8" larger (5-8).

    If you don't want a smaller shower, take 8" out of the adjoining closet.

    The current toilet room width is only about 3-0. I would make it larger.

    The designer appears to have drawn a small "round front" toilet. You should install a full sized toilet (30" deep).

    PP thanked RES 3d Sketches
  • PP

    I don’t take it personally because I have not designed it and have no knowledge. Architect designed it. Hence seeking feedback here to see if things can be improved now rather than later.


    Can you all please comment on other parts of the house too. I have posted 2 pictures above.


    Please tell me what change is needed, why and how to change it. I have to still keep total square footage same.


    Personally I like toilets to be well ventilated. But if you want stronger vents then I am told they are very noisy. If you put a window for vent then toilet gets cold in winter with the air draft. Any suggestions?


    We were thinking make up vanity in master closet but comment by @Lindsey_CA says otherwise.


    Please dissect the plan and give your valuable feedback along with how to fix it. Thanks.

  • PRO
    RES 3d Sketches

    An exhaust fan in a small toilet room does not need to be large to be effective so it should not be noisy. And it can only draw the amount of air that can pass under the bottom of the door when its closed so a large fan would not necessarily be more effective. Put a large one near the shower to remove moist air and a small one in the toilet room and pPut them both on timer switches.

    Your architect should have already done this so look at the electrical drawings.

    PP thanked RES 3d Sketches
  • PP

    @RES 3d Sketches we are not talking about vent or exhaust fan with a hole in side wall that opens to outside, I mean opens to outside of the house?? Right.

  • PRO
    RES 3d Sketches

    Bath exhaust fans normally mount in the ceiling with an exhaust duct to a termination hood and backflow flapper on an outside wall. The termination can also be on the roof. I've never seen a through-the-wall exhaust fan but I suppose they exist.

    Your building code may require something different but the 2015 IRC requires a bathroom OR a water closet enclosure (you have one of each) to have 1.5 s.f. of window opening to the outdoors OR a fan that exhausts to the outdoors. The term "vent" has no application for this issue but nevertheless its sometimes used to describe mechanical exhausts.

    PP thanked RES 3d Sketches
  • PP

    @RES 3d Sketches Thanks for the reply. I don‘t like smelly toilets or kitchens. All houses have exhausts but I have noticed toilets or kitchens can still smell. Hence I have asked builder to have appropriate exhausts in all toilets and kitchen. I don’t know if there is any brand better than other or less noisy still powerful enough.


    Please feel free to comment on any other thing you may notice in master bedroom, guest bedroom, utility etc




  • PRO
    RES 3d Sketches

    I find it odd that you would make everything symmetrical except the shower is misaligned with the tub by 2" You might as well make the toilet enclosure 2" shorter. That's probably what the builder will think was intended anyway.

  • PRO
    RES 3d Sketches

    The choice of exhaust fans would normally be left to the architect. Is the architect a drafter or a designer working for the builder?

    PP thanked RES 3d Sketches
  • PP

    @RES 3d Sketches The architect is drafter for builder. Hence looking for ideas from the forum. Regarding bathroom, it’s not symmetric yet. Hence still brainstorming. Appreciate your input. I don’t want toilet to be too small but I don’t know what size it should be and how to make it wider as suggested earlier in the forum. Toilet will have pocket door.


    The shower comes out compared to the toilet and have glass as they come out so they can look really nice. Hence I guess the toilet was not made wider. But I am open to changes including regarding not having double doors And getting alignment between bathroom and closet entrance.


    Do you have suggestions for other parts of house in the plan?



  • thinkdesignlive

    With that much closet space I’d be inclined to double stack the washer dryer in order to add a door directly to the utility room. Wash day would get a whole lot easier.

  • Karenseb

    Have you considered moving the shower to the tub side. That would open the bathroom more. It also helps to align the bath and closet doors.

    My toilet area is 46 inches wide, but 42 would be nice too (interior width). I noticed you have lots of windows in the hall way behind the bath. Perhaps you could add a long narrow window up high for extra light.

    If you want to stick to the last plan shown. I'd widen the toilet room (42 inches), narrow and lengthen the shower and put a 30 inch linen closet in the upper right hand bath area and use a standard door that opens against the closet.


  • Lindsey_CA

    "Regarding bathroom, it’s not symmetric yet."

    I honestly don't understand your quest for symmetry in the bathroom. The only time symmetry, or lack thereof, will be really noticeable is when you are looking at printed floor plans, or if you have a big skylight in the bathroom and you're standing on the roof looking down into the bathroom. Design a space that gives you everything you need, as far as "things," and as much room as each of these things needs.

    As I said much further upthread, usually women have more "stuff" in the bathroom than men do, so it's not unusual for a woman's vanity to be larger than a man's. We see different sized "his" and "hers" closets all the time, and no one seems to think that's odd - why not a vanity?

    PP thanked Lindsey_CA
  • PP

    @Lindsey_CA Appreciate your input. I didn’t want 4’ for men. Just find it too small. I currently have 5’. Hence wanted at least 5’ and only way for it was to take it from women side and make it 5’ for both sides.

    I understand now that symmetry is more visible in plan but not when one is standing in the bathroom.

    Wondering should i have space below female vanity in bathroom for stool to do make up as I will have separate make up vanity in master closet.

  • Mrs Pete

    The revised layout is just as bad as before

    Rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.

    Every time you go through those doors--especially while carrying laundry--you will have to open both of them. I think they are silly, inconvenient, and pretentious in a home.

    Totally agree. I can't see why they're "a thing".

    With that much closet space I’d be inclined to double stack the washer dryer in order to add a door directly to the utility room. Wash day would get a whole lot easier.

    I was going to suggest a door between the utility room and the closet. So many steps could be saved. I'd also move the washer/dryer to the exterior wall; this will allow the dryer to direct most efficiently straight to the outside. Cheaper and more fire-safe.

    As to stackable machines, two considerations:

    - Consider that this ties you into front-loaders, which are space hogs. I have enjoyed my current front-loader (they're way deeper), but I think I'll go back to traditional machines when these need replacing.

    - Go down to Lowes and see stacked machines are good for you. Personally, I'm way too short to choose them, which is too bad because I do like the concept.

    I honestly don't understand your quest for symmetry in the bathroom.

    Agree. Symmetry "shows" on a blueprint ... but it won't "show" at all in real life.

    I didn’t want 4’ for men. Just find it too small. I currently have 5’. Hence wanted at least 5’ and only way for it was to take it from women side and make it 5’ for both sides.

    Pinpoint for us ... WHY do you see 4' or whatever size as too small? Are you keeping a bunch of stuff on the countertop? Are you short on drawer space? Towel space?

    Personally, I like minimal stuff on the countertop -- no clutter, please. Looks messy and is an obstacle to cleaning. My husband and I share a 4' vanity, and we don't need more counter space.

    If it's drawer space that you think is too small, take some time to study vanities. Stock vanities tend to give lots of space to the sink (worse still if you're using duplicate sinks) ... and although the vanity may be ample-space-wide, the drawers may be tiny. Consider going with a custom vanity ... you can get MUCH WIDER drawers in the same space.



    PP thanked Mrs Pete
  • PRO
    RES 3d Sketches

    I don't know where this project is located but in the US "architect" is a legally restricted professional title like "doctor" or "lawyer" so you should call this person a drafter. That also helps us understand why this person is leaving important decisions to the builder and why you are seeking so much advice from strangers. I'm happy to help out but I don't like to usurp the role of another architect; there was a time when that could have cost me my AIA membership.

    There is nothing wrong with symmetry but it shouldn't be off by 2". Make the toilet room 2" shorter and 4" wider. Place the toilet 18" from the far wall. Make the pocket door a "pullman" door by modifying a 30" pocket door frame so the clear opening is 24" and there's room to put pull handles on the door. Then users might actually close the door.



    PP thanked RES 3d Sketches
  • Trish Walter

    thoughts:

    make sure you have enough space between tub and shower. I'm guessing you do but always good to double check.

    where will you hang towels for shower? are you going to have a bar on the glass?

    If that's 5' for just a linen closet that seems pretty large. I wonder if you could do the make up vanity 3' and 2' linen? or does she want it to be in the closet.

    I am also not a double door fan, but if you are, then go for it.

    If you don't need the closet that's by the utility room and don't mind losing some from your master closet, it might be nice to get to laundry room...

    I have separate 48" vanities in my current master bath and they seem to be a good size. But if you have room and want 60", your choice.


    I'm not a professional. Just a homeowner.

    PP thanked Trish Walter
  • damiarain

    I would think about adding a door from the closet to the hallway - otherwise every time you need a sweater or have laundry, you have to walk the full length of the suite, twice!




    PP thanked damiarain
  • Lindsey_CA

    "I didn’t want 4’ [vanity] for men. Just find it too small. I currently have 5’. Hence wanted at least 5’ and only way for it was to take it from women side and make it 5’ for both sides."

    @palci -- I don't know whether you're the male or the female in your family. Are you a male who has a 4' vanity and thinks it's too small? Or are you a female with a 4' vanity who thinks it's too small so you therefore think that even your male partner should have a larger vanity? If you're the female, have you asked your male partner how he feels about the size of his vanity? Does he want more than 4'?

    "Wondering should i have space below female vanity in bathroom for stool to do make up as I will have separate make up vanity in master closet."

    You don't (or shouldn't) need two makeup areas. (Again, if you're the female...) What is your routine while doing makeup? If, like I do, you need water (i.e., a sink) when you do your makeup, then have what's called knee space at the sink to sit and do your makeup. And don't have another makeup area in the closet. If you don't ever need water when doing your makeup, then just have one makeup vanity.

    And if you decide on only one makeup vanity in the closet, be sure you have enough lights in there because there are times when you need to put makeup on when there's not a lot of light outside (early in the morning; before going out at night; on rainy/cloudy/stormy days, etc.).

    Mrs Pete said:

    "If it's drawer space that you think is too small, take some time to study vanities. Stock vanities tend to give lots of space to the sink (worse still if you're using duplicate sinks) ... and although the vanity may be ample-space-wide, the drawers may be tiny."

    One thing that bugs me about stock vanities is the fact that the sink is generally in the middle. I prefer to have it more to one side, which leaves a greater surface area for "stuff" -- even if you don't leave your stuff out on the counter all the time, you at least have more room to put the stuff when you're using it. It also leaves space below the counter for wider drawers/shelves under the area without the sink.

    PP thanked Lindsey_CA
  • PP

    @RES 3d Sketches Thanks for the feedback. I would appreciate feedback on rest of the plan in addition to master bathroom.

  • PP

    Thanks to everyone for their feedback. I am making notes.

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