I’m confused- you ordered unfinished cabinets and they are being finished on site, or you ordered based on a cabinet sample?

Why is any of this being done in the home? A reputable cabinet maker finishes in his shop, and produces samples from which you choose.

@live_wire_oak...the cabinet maker never produced a full size sample for us. BIG MISTAKE!!! He finished everything in his shop but when he started to install the doors we noticed that nothing matched. The doors and drawers looked nothing like the framing or each other! some was light, some was dark and there was a huge amount of splotching. I thought it was an application error so I tools the contractor someone else should stain the cabinets. No Now it appears the issue was not so much the application but the wood itself. Yet, it's extremely disappointing he had no quality control and didn't notice - or notify us - of the color discrepancies. While the dark colors are the worst,, you can see there are discrepancies where we have light finishes as well. I'm really at a loss for what to do

@Patricia - this is what we're learning about maple. You'd think he would have known enough to tell us maple is difficult and we should choose something different!

When you say "the framing", do you mean the frame of the door, or of the cabinet boxes? When I read your post I assumed you meant the boxes, but it looks like there are no visible frames on the cabinet boxes.

It does look like the color is different between your door rails/stiles vs. the flat panel. I'm guessing that the rails and stiles are solid wood while the center panel is 1/4" MDF (or other composite) with a maple veneer. For most woods, the material used for veneer is finer-grained than solid wood and will therefore look a bit different.

Regardless, I am surprised that this is being finished on-site and that you were not given a finished sample to approve before construction even started. I'd put the brakes on until you get a result on a test door that you like.

A 10-second internet search would have told you about maple. When you buy a car, a phone, or even go to a movie, don't you go online?

Setting that aside, even if you had used white oak--which is a wood that can take a gray stain, but is very expensive--I don't think gray-stained cabinets will go with your counters. One avenue would be to start over with keeping your maple a more natural wood color.

Alternatively, I am wondering if you could paint your cabinets instead of trying to stain a material that is not suited to staining. Maple's smooth surface is suited to painting. And that way, you can get a gray shade that looks really great with your counters. But I might hire a different contractor to do it.

Everything we are seeing in that image is stained and completed by your cabinet maker? Does he consider the job done? What was in the contract regarding finishes? I can echo what you are reading above, it is standard to choose among several finished doors for your final look. Also, Shannon is correct, maple is for painting, not staining.

So what do you do now? That depends on your contract and your cabinet maker. Can you show us an image of what you wanted?

Not only is it hard to stain, it changes color markedly over time. I would paint them.

Paint over the darn stain with proper preparation to do that. . The only maple stain that ever "worked" Is spice tone from three decades ago, and the factory that builds the cabinets.

Maple needs paint, or NO STAIN whatsoever. Sorry. Using maple for stain is an invitation to misery. Yellow, pink...everything but what you WANT and uneven to boot, because it is so hard, and such a tight and closed grain.

Ask if your cabinet maker has a spray booth, uses conversion varnish. You are both at fault, as NOBODY signs off on a cabinet order without first seeing strikes /samples. To do so twice is more ............UGH!

Paint the cabinets in a soft pale gray and move on. The tone you wanted is difficult enough to achieve in white oak. Gray/fad wood finishes demand factory built cabinets.

I agree, on painting them. Get someone that will do a quality paint job. I also agree with the poster above, that the color they are stained, do not go well at all with your countertops. You need a different color gray. Before you decide on paint, get a piece of your countertop to take shopping with you so you can check samples in the store and also take those samples outside, and check them with the countertops, and once you decide on a couple of samples, bring them home, and paint them on a piece of poster paper and move it all around the cabinets, and then decide which actually does go well with your countertops.

I would have them painted white.

White or charcoal : )

I learned about Maple being hard to stain the hard way, too. From what I have read, you need to use dye stains on maple. But haven't tried it. That was years ago when I attempted it. I recently had some reclaimed maple that had been bookshelves in a church. It was very nice wood; built a cabinet out of it and painted it.

@JAN MOYER...you write " To do so twice is more ............UGH!" I did NOT sign off on anything twice. I am awaiting a new set of doors and drawers and am working on getting things right the second time. The photo of the door I posted was a sample. The others photos are of other rooms that use a different color stain. Those are problematic too, though not quite as egregious because they are lighter. I posted them only to show that the issue was not just with a dark stain, but with a light stain too.

Yes, I sure wish I had pushed for a sample ... but, geez, shouldn't a professional cabinetmaker make that part of his process?! Moreover, when he started to get a bad result, why the heck didn't he stop and contact me right away. It's like he didn't want me to notice there was a problem!

Here are a few photos of the kitchen showing how poor the match is between the doors and the boxes -- and even between doors and drawers.

I opted for stained not painted cabinets to begin with because every time I'm in a kitchen with painted cabinets, I notice chips all over the place. I have young kids and will spend a lot of time in the kitchen ... don't want to be looking at chipped cabinets in a year. So, I'm still not quite ready to throw in the towel and go with paint.

Toss in the towel . There will be no "right" . Honestly, You either have to have them stripped and settle for "au naturel" or you paint.

Why did he not ask? Not tell?

When you are your own designer , you are responsible for every single thing you may or may not know. You are responsible for all the questions. The one's you didn't know to ask and the ones you did ask, but didn't get answers or you did get an answer and you don't like the answer........or you got a wrong answer.

Yup.........................it stinks. That's the deal.

It's why we get paid lol.

I feel your pain, but that pic looks as if you had ...........a fire.

Factory, Canyon Creek. Note the blotchy effect in even the factory finish. No matter how dark.

https://www.canyoncreek.com/styles-finishes/stain-and-paint-colors/standard-stains-paints/charcoal/charcoal-maple/?mgi_1044=24133/trio-687-maple

and another ...Dura Supreme below.

Above????????/ Nope. Earl Gray on Maple. Same thing.

Thanks, @Jan. I could get me head around style blotching if it was consistent across all the doors, drawers and boxes. While it wasn't my intended look, I could accept it if the colors matched. The biggest issue was that each part of the project looks different. it seems especially odd that the doors and drawers didn't even match!

There is a drastic difference, thats for sure, but, that stain, looks even worse with your counters than the last pictures you posted. Its definitely the wrong color. Almost more brown than it is gray.

@cat_ky...yes, it came out way too brown. The boxes are ok because you can see the gray, but the doors are awful

Your cabinet maker MAKES the boxes. He BUYS the door and drawer faces. My bet is the stains are the same...........to a totally different result. I think you will be at this for quite a while........unless you paint.

And this is yet another case of “local custom” being anything but. Guy is a sketchy woodworker parts assembler, not a cabinet maker. And it’s why people buy factory finished cabinets. They (mostly) have all of that figured out and don’t use your home for a paint science experiment.

Even factory built cabinets actually come from many different trees with different graining and absorptivity. Look at Jan’s example. You have to have correct expectations of reality based variability in the results. The whole tapestry is greater than the sum of the parts. One door being a bit lighter while a drawer is a bit darker and this door has heart and sap wood and both lighter and darker areas is to be expected with stained cabinets. That is what shows that they are made out of real wood. They will never ever be 100% uniform. That expectation would lead to the path of using painted cabinets, or printed laminate or Thermofoil cabinets.

@live_wire_oak...you're right and I sure wish we had gone a different route. At the time we made the decision, it seemed like the right one and we did look at another cabinet installation he had done and spoke with the homeowner. There were no red flags, but here we are. If the doors come out looking like what Jan posted I'd be perfectly content. That's just not what we got the first time. Hopefully we'll get there this time around.

As already mentioned, paint your cabinets with a pale gray paint that is suitable to the counters. Even setting aside the blotchiness, the stain color is not right for your counters. So even if you had gotten white oak and it stained correctly (and paid triple for white oak compared to what maple costs), the color would be wrong with your counters.

When you paint the cabinets, they will need to be prepped properly, a detailed and time-consuming task. Get a different contractor. Absolutely. Period.

We had maple cabs in the kitchen of our former home. They were not stained, but natural., so all was uniform. In our new home, I chose birch for cabinets, which takes staining well, and has gorgeous graining.

But, we had dropped a boatload on the high end kitchen, and with four bathrooms to furnish, didn’t want to...and couldn’t, go that route again. We stepped down in cabinet brands, and installed maple cabs in the bathrooms, with a stain. While there is some blotchiness, mostly on the frames, for the most part, I’m not too bothered...especially as it’s bathrooms, not the kitchen.

@darbuka - have your birch cabinets held up well? could you post a photo?

Yes, extremely pleased with the birch cabs. They are by Tedd Wood, a company you don’t see on this forum much, even though they’re one of the better semi custom lines. The factory is in Pennsylvania.

Having had personal experience with this (our cabinet line was discontinued and I had to have a refrigerator panel made)... maple has to be sealed before staining with a pre-finsh wood conditioner to minimize blotching, then a sanding sealer (shellac), then stain, then finish coat. Our panel had an area that was dark due to mineral streak in the maple that I and a concern with. Once pre-conditioned, stain wiped with an even tone over the panel. We used a water based wiping stain custom tinted from Sherwin William.

You could just have him sand down to the wood and clear coat it, go with natural maple. You won't see chips or blotches.

Anyone have experience with using lacquer? That was a recommendation given to me yesterday. Seems like a promising option since it covers like paint, but is supposedly much harder and less likely to chip.

I haven’t had lacquer on those types of cabinets, but if it’s a real lacquer, I’d be impressed. Lacquer is one of my favorite finishes because it is so hard and hardly anyone does it anymore, at least in my area.

I wanted to clarify, did you say the lighter maple cabinets are in a different part of your house? I’m asking because the color is pretty, but to also warn that the color will very likely change. Maple darkens, which is less noticeable with a medium to dark stain. With a light stain, you have to consider the potential darkening, and it’s not always a bad thing. But, it sounds like the person doing your cabinets is not used to working with maple and you might not know.

I have the best results avoiding blotching with maple when it’s sealed before staining. Unfortunately that means the stain doesn’t penetrate very well, so the color selection is more limited to colors a bit darker than natural maple. Then it can be glazed for more depth. This method is more likely to give consistent results since it’s possible the boxes and drawers/doors are made of completely different maple anyway.

Dye works on maple but I prefer it going darker. Leaving them natural with a topcoat is a great option, but make sure you see the color of aged natural maple before you decide.

We got a sample using a Sherwin Williams lacquer and it looks great. Thanks for the warning about the lighter stains. Those cabinets are in a different part of the house (bathrooms and a bonus room). The rooms where they are have northern and Eastern exposures.

Lacquer, unless it’s catalyzed, is an extremely poor finish for cabinets. It’s easily damaged by water and oils. It’s what you see peeling and chipping on all of the “local custom” cabinets that people complain about. Finishers love it because it dries quickly and lets them move on. A much better finish is the 2K polys like Milesi or Ilva. They also dry quickly, but are way way tougher.

Now this may sound naive, and snarky, but I promise I don't mean to be snarky. Why get maple if you wanted them to be gray? The beauty of maple is in the natural color.

So much wrong info and so much misuse of types of finish names. Nobody is using lacquer to spray cabinets. Its a misused term and by the way lacquer is soft that is why it was used on high polish parts.

If its S Williams it probably Kem Aqua which is their 2 part system which works great as it is thin mil build finish that would prevent a lot of the so called cracking with panel movement.

Once again I am just amazed at how people don't want real wood to look like real wood. About 20 post up someone noted dye and if u look at any guitar you will se maple done and not blotchy.

Maple is a beautiful wood left natural with maybe a tinted dye. The blotch is trying to cover the beauty of the wood which is all the movement in the grain. Quilted maple is stunning but if stained will look blotchy and horrible.

When u buy maple wood why would u want it painted gray???

@wannabath...I wanted stained cabinets and love the look of wood...but they just weren't coming out right. Unfortunately, leaving them natural just wasn't going to work with our color scheme - and was no longer an option since the boxes have been installed. I am torn about the decision, but it was the only way to get something predictable at this stage. Next time we'll know better! Unfortunately, I think our cabinet maker either didn't have the knowledge to guide us early on. I think he's just one of those people who does what he's told, but isn't necessarily creative or interested in sharing his opinions. So here we are. I know the cabinets will look good even though we are losing the look of natural wood. The alternative was to spend a lot of money on refinishing and risk still being unhappy. We've been working on this house for two years and this is the main floor where we'll spend huge amounts of time. I wasn't willing to take the risk.

i think they look better than the stain would have. (I would never have picked maple for a stained wood. white oak, walnut, yes, never maple and it's too bad he never told you. Now you know!) But, it's a nice job and glad you found a solution.

Yes, @Beth H. :, it was really unfortunate.

Way to take lemons and make lemonade. They look much better. Enjoy them in the best of health.

Lynne, as a suggestion I would bring in some walnut or other wood if you can, by doing some wood on the vent hood. (if you're doing all SS, never mind)

(BTW, you have some fab light and a great view w/those windows!)

You could even do some wood with the island chairs. you have a ton of gray and I think doing some wood somewhere would warm it up a bit. even if you brought in cutting boards, bowls, wood spoons, etc for the countertop, it would warm up the grays a bit.

Ignore the flooring and the island on this one, because obviously they are warm, stained wood. imagine yours w/just the other additions.

Lynne - Your kitchen turned out lovely. Now if you can just get your neighbor to change the exterior color of his house - what's with that blue siding and pinkish red trim? :-)

@Beth H. :Thanks for those ideas! The appliances are stainless steel, however we do plan to stain the doors on this floor, which should give some of the warmth you're talking about. For example, you can see on the left side of the photo you can see an opening with barn door hardware. That will be a chalkboard door with a fir frame that we plan to stain with a fairly natural color...similar to this. Also on the floor is an open floating staircase that has wood stringers which will be stained ebony.

We are installing charcoal stained maple cabinets in the bathrooms of our new build. We are working with an Amish cabinet maker and are happy with the outcome. Yes there is variation...but that was the whole point of staining instead of painting!

I am not exactly sure what your vision was, but they look cool! As long as they aren't gold.... I think they have a great neutral feel. The door in the first pic is beautiful

Can you share the info about the final product you put on the cabinet. I believe it was a SW product. I am having the same issue you had. We put in maple doors and I didn’t realize they were so difficult to stain. Now looking at options.

Lacquer is a completely misunderstood finish and can be excellent as a clear coating, but you really have to work with someone who knows about these finishes. There are many kinds of “lacquer” now that aren’t even lacquer, as well as what they used in the 80’s that everyone hates, and you need someone who knows the difference. However if you are open to a more natural maple finish it can be really pretty and there are easier options than lacquer if you’re doing it yourself. I did two large maple projects in the last year that turned out great, IMO because they were near natural. Both times I did several coats of a “glue wash” type pre conditioner. One was drawer boxes and I used a light, diluted pigmented stain, and it gave them sort of a white washed look. It turned out way better than I expected and would look great on furniture but I don’t think I’d like it on doors. On another project I used general finishes high performance over the sealed natural maple and the sheen is gorgeous. Actually I forgot, one more I used white wax, which is fantastic on natural maple, but not enough protection for doors. If you want to go darker it really has to be dyed, and you’ll want someone else to do it. IMO maple is most beautiful and turns out best if you like maple close to it’s natural color. It’s definitely possible to get complex and dark finishes on maple and I have in the past, but the more I grow up I dont think it’s worth it. I use other wood for darker finishes now.

I will not be doing the work. I just have to figure out what I want. I would love to see the projects your referring too EVaElizabeth.
I was originally thinking darker but might even consider paint…possibly black. Any thoughts on painting maple?

I have beautiful hard maple cabinets that were top coated with a tinted lacquer which was a gift to refinish with a new top coat. Hard maple can be beuautiful but a challenge to modify.

Great blog post!