girl_wonder

Coronavirus: should it put a remodel on hold?

girl_wonder
7 months ago

For anyone currently in the thick of a remodel (or anyone who has an opinion): are you and/or your GC and workers doing anything different due to the COVID19?


Obviously they are disinfecting and washing their hands a ton. But is anyone having their crews stay home? or ?

Comments (340)

  • A S
    7 months ago

    I know of people who pay to come to US too but that is to avoid waits. I’d rather wait and not pay personally. We also have many options to pay here too. I know as a Canadian I’m petrified about accessing a hospital in US as it would bankrupt us.

  • bry911
    7 months ago

    i've heard of tons of Canadians coming to the US to pay for knee surgeries and other 'non-essential' medical surgeries. Or maybe they didn't want to wait a year or so. But I guess because you haven't heard of it, it doesn't exist.

    Yes, but you can't ignore Americans seeking healthcare in other countries while simultaneously focusing on people who come here for healthcare. On the whole we have a significant medical trade deficit as there are several regions that depend on U.S. medical tourism as their primary economic industry. Parts of Mexico and Thailand exist as nothing more than medical destinations for US citizens seeking affordable medical treatment.

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  • James Bennett
    7 months ago

    @Beth H. : There have been studies done that show Canadians do not come to the US for medical care. Most Canadians who do come to the US for healthcare were here visiting and had an accident. An average knee replacement in the US costs $50,000 USD. That would be roughly $71,000 Canadian. If Canadians have $71,000 to spend on a knee replacement instead of waiting for a free one, than it must be a wonderful place if Canadians have that kind of disposable income. If anything, Canadians would go to Mexico where many Americans go because it is cheaper.

  • bry911
    7 months ago

    and hey, I'm all for lowering drug prices. why don't you write to your congress person (preferable one that doesn't have BigPharma in their pocket)

    Then you are not for a free market system. There is no version of a free market where the government steps in and tells people what to charge. You are essentially saying I want socialized prescription drugs, but socialized medicine will not work in the U.S. Either it will or it won't.

    While we are on the subject of those evil "big pharma" owners, you might want to look at who owns them. Pharmaceuticals and Insurance companies are the two market sectors with the highest retirement fund ownership. In other words those evil corporate stockholders who are buying politicians are primarily us. More specifically they are primarily our retirement plans.


  • James Bennett
    7 months ago

    Well Canada has the US beat in education too and poverty and income inequality. Canadian culture isn't that radically different than the US. It's no coincidence that the poorest states in the US are also the most obese. Part of that reason is fresh food is more expensive. It's cheaper to feed a family of four a box or two of mac and cheese than it is to buy fresh food. Low income neighborhoods in the US have less access to parks. Canada, relatively speaking, doesn't even have the best healthcare system. It lags behind it's European counterparts but with the US there's no comparison. At least the US has some cool military equipment and a half built wall.

  • PRO
    Beth H. :
    7 months ago
    last modified: 7 months ago

    jmm,,,those numbers would have been completely the opposite less than 40 years ago. Has our knowledge changed that much? we had the same healthcare then that we do now. Our way of life and products that we eat have changed. People are lazier.

    some of those stats seemed a little off. like the mortality rate

    The infant mortality rate for U.S. in 2019 was 5.748 deaths per 1000 live births, a 1.15% decline from 2018.

    Why is the death rate so high? Pre-mature births are rolled into this one.

    These premature births are the biggest factor in explaining the United States' high infant mortality rate. Pre-term births can have many different maternal causes, many of which -- such as high blood pressure, diabetes, Zika and other infections and age -- are not entirely within an expectant mother's control

    higher mortality rates seem to coincide in states w/higher obesity (diabetes) stats. For instance, Mass is at 3.7, and Mississippi (the most obese state in the union) is above 8. Do people in Mass have better healthcare? No. Most of them probably have better eating habits and exercise.

    My point is, James and others posting stats that show the US lagging behind countries w/social medicine, doesn't mean that it's the factor in a better life. If that were the case James, Canada and the UK wouldn't have any overweight people (being that they get the education and advise for free). Socialized medicine isn't a cure all. It's not like obesity is going to suddenly decline because everyone has free health care! I'd say it would prob go up because now people think they don't have to work and use the money to pay for medical visits and medicine. If they aren't taking care of their health when it's costing them money, they certainly won't do it if its free.

  • bry911
    7 months ago
    last modified: 7 months ago

    A certain portion would have come out of my paycheck to cover the insurance. (although, a few hundred a month is chump change for the type of coverage I'd get) .

    No it is not a few hundred a month. The entire cost comes out of your pocket somehow. Money is fungible. If your employer bears the cost of a $13,000 bill they are going to pass it on to you somehow. Whether that is higher consumer costs or lower wages, you pay that cost. The actual economic cost of healthcare is between $1,400 and $1,800 per working adult per month. Just because that isn't a direct expense to your pocket doesn't mean you don't make economic sacrifices equal to it.

    It's not lack of healthcare that's making people obese. And as I've stated, almost 45% of the population is obese. Do you really think 45% of our citizens are poor and ignorant? ? Come on man, do some of your own research. We're a lazy group of people.

    It is very hard to quantify the economic effects of high health care costs. While you may be right on the obesity belief, you must realize that there are severe economic effects that do result in and from healthcare effects. Americans are hesitant to seek care this creates an entire anti-treatment socioeconomic class that extends well into the middle class.

    I will give you an example, of the problem. My son was born with a tight frenulum (tongue tied), we investigated and decided against surgery, but by the time he was four he was in speech therapy just to ensure that the problem would not affect his development. A not as distant as I would prefer relative has a daughter with a serious speech impediment because of a correctable condition. Her father refuses treatment or speech therapy and says she will grow out of it in time, which she will, but not before her educational opportunities are seriously damaged. I have offered to pay for therapy and or treatment and the father refuses. The value proposition for him is different.

    The economic cost of high healthcare costs has been clearly demonstrated as detrimental to our entire economy. You can't simply say that X number of people would be fat anyway, it is an entirely different value proposition that creates completely different economic outcomes.

    ETA: At this point we are very far away from a discussion on remodels and Coronavirus so I suggest we end this tangent. If you want to discuss healthcare separately I believe we should do it elsewhere. I will happily support everything I have said with research and journal articles if you would like. Macroeconomic medical markets are not my research area, but my research area rubs up against this a lot and so I have had to do a lot of research on the effects of healthcare costs on employers and project development. Plus medical research and development is in my wheelhouse so I will gladly participate in a discussion.

  • Skil367
    7 months ago

    It's nice to hear from Canadians. My best friend lives in Vancouver. My father was a pipeliner, so we moved every few months and I (briefly) went to grade schools in Toronto, Hamilton and Kamloops in the late 1950s.


    Canada, like almost every other developed country in the world, has socialized medicine. Their citizens live longer, healthier lives than we do and it costs them half as much.

  • PRO
    Beth H. :
    7 months ago
    last modified: 7 months ago

    James, no it isn't. fresh food is avail everywhere. Farmers markets, open air swap meets, etc. The fresh stuff costs more if it's organic. Farmers market prices can also be a bit higher. Regular produce is regular priced at most regular markets. (people in the high rent district tend to pay more it too) But, If you mean it's priced higher in the 'ghetto' or other impoverished areas, then you're right. But why? stores there have to pay more for insurance coverage to operate in those areas, so of course the prices flow down to the buyers. I'm very familiar w/this issue. Stores, specifically markets, don't want to open in high crime areas because why,? would you? If they do, they have to hire security guards, theft prevention measures, wrought iron gates around the parking lot, deal w/shopping cart loss, and higher insurance premiums, shoplifting prevention. And then you say, 'fresh food costs more'. Well, duh. How about poor communities quit robbing the few stores in their neighborhoods? Where's that education come into play? What's the incentive for any business owner to open a market, restaurant, or any other smaller type of store? There isn't one. I can name quite a few businesses that tried. They lost so much money, they had to close. This is why those areas have mostly fast food places. they're smaller, can be secured better and are backed by mega millionaire corporations. This has nothing to do w/social medicine. you're blaming lack of access to fresh food as the reason for inclining health issues like obesity and diabetes. sorry. not gonna fly here.

  • James Bennett
    7 months ago

    I'm glad @Beth H. :brought up Mississippi as the most obese state in the union. It's also the poorest state in the union. Massachusetts, meanwhile, is the 4th wealthiest state in the union. Massachusetts also has more access to healthcare since that is where Romneycare originated and more people from Massachusetts has the highest healthcare coverage in the country. Glad you brought up those two states. People in Massachusetts most certainly have access to better healthcare. There's a difference between quality and access.

  • PRO
    Beth H. :
    7 months ago
    last modified: 7 months ago

    James, I'm going to disagree with you there. What about Wyoming? what's their excuse? they're low like Mass. do they have better healthcare? North Dakota? Washington? They are low like Mass. Do they have more 'romneycare' ? did it ever occur to you that people in Miss maybe aren't as health conscientious? In fact, as a whole, the south has always rated higher in obesity. Who doesn't like a good southern fried meal? when it's had every night, you're going to get fat people.

    Still stuck on Mass? Ok, what about Idaho? Colorado? all of them are in the 4's. (Mass was 3.7)

    This is infant mortality rate. do you think women in ND get better medical care than Miss? Or Louisiana? Or Georgia? Wait, what about Arkansas? they're almost the same as Miss. Do they get less quality care?

    No. The difference is probably related to diet James. an overweight pregnant woman has a huge risk of developing gestational diabetes and hypertension compared to an average sized pregnant woman. I'm sure there are fat women in New England that suffer the same complications as those in the south. But I can tell you that their diets, for the most part, is prob diff from the one in the south.

    make all the excuses you want, but that's just what they are. With all of the information out there and the push to get healthy, there is no reason that obese people get less healthcare than average sized people. You basically just said that Mississippi is a state full of fat/stupid people that don't have the same health services as a New England state.

  • A S
    7 months ago

    Beth, James, JM, Bry, as someone embroiled in debate earlier may I suggest you agree to disagree. Reading this it is so apparent that Beth believes here data and info and you all believe yours. I recall saying healthcare was a hot topic. You won’t be convincing each other of anything on this thread.

  • wacokid
    7 months ago

    Yea B ry, you were really going off. I would say your words per post hit the law of diminishing returns a couple of hours ago. But, no need for a statistical response. I was waiting for Joe to chime in again.

  • James Bennett
    7 months ago

    It's weird to see @Beth H. :argue against socialized medicine because America is fat. What we do know is that every developed nation in the world has socialized medicine, lower obesity, and are healthier. What we are doing isn't working so why not try socialized medicine? The US spends more per capita on health care than any other country and yet cannot provide it to all of its citizens. Not sure how we got to the point where providing healthcare to all its citizens in the wealthiest nation got to be so radical.

  • A S
    7 months ago

    Beth to be really clear I agree with the others over you. But I can tell this debate will go nowhere. So it’s not worth it.

  • PRO
    Beth H. :
    7 months ago
    last modified: 7 months ago

    AS That's fine. you live in a country where it appears to work (and a country w/less people than live in my state) (let me also add that your knowledge is based on what info is given to you. You haven't lived here for 60 years)

    my argument is w/james and obesity. social medicine isn't going to undo culture, or laziness, or self motivation

  • James Bennett
    7 months ago

    What does population have to do with it? It's funny you use population and then give me a state like Wyoming to compare to Massachusetts which has fewer people than Boston. More people means a larger tax base. The US has a larger population that Canada but it also has the largest GDP in the world.

  • James Bennett
    7 months ago

    Because socialized medicine won't cure obesity, the US shouldn't adopt socialized medicine. That's a new one for me.

  • A S
    7 months ago

    I think some of what you are both saying is far too simplistic to be honest. I do believe that many people who have financial struggles or limited income are obese because of food options. I don’t think that is laziness or self motivation. That’s not related to either of our countries either. It’s a belief about people and access to good food choices, freedom from food security issues, and training to change their circumstance. It is related to healthcare because those who aren’t healthy tax the healthcare systems but I do feel frustrated when I hear implications that laziness and motivation are root issues vs access to better options. But even me writing this is too simplistic too. That’s the reality. All of this is so complex. If it wasn’t these issues would have been resolved easily before now.

  • James Bennett
    7 months ago

    BTW, Canada is one of the most obese countries in the world along with the UK, Australia, and New Zealand among others.

  • PRO
    Beth H. :
    7 months ago
    last modified: 7 months ago

    James, then why do you keep pointing out the correlation between obesity and healthcare? you said if healthcare was readily available, then people wouldn't be obese. I quote you:

    What's one thing poor people don't have access to? Healthcare. Perhaps being able to regularly visit a doctor can help them fight obesity.

    So now you're contradicting yourself? I also said plenty of people in socialized medicine countries fight obesity, giving further evidence that your statement makes no sense.

    My comment was obesity isn't going to go away merely because socialized medicine is in place. I never said, " Because socialized medicine won't cure obesity, the US shouldn't adopt socialized medicine."

    James, I'm done trying to have a debate with you. You can't seem to grasp any of what I say, and paraphrase things that I never said.

    What does population have to do with it? I'm just going to roll my eyes into the back of my head on this one.

    please, no more.

    AS, I disagree. There is plenty of access to healthy food. I really don't know what you think our markets are like down here. I assure you, there is fresh produce. And whether you want to hear it or not, laziness and lack of motivation is a huge issue. As an example, watch 600lb life. they get the healthcare, the nutritionist, the psychologist to assist w/addiction, et al. That's on an extreme level, but you get the point. There are health clinics that deal w/obesity all over the place. So tired of all these excuses. If all it took was social medicine, your country would have no overweight people. My argument is we don't need social medicine in order to combat obesity. That's all I said.

    BTW, when our government takes care of our veterans who are homeless, have trouble getting treated at the VA, and get practically no mental health care, I'll begin to think about giving socialized medicine a try.

  • MarleneM
    7 months ago

    This thread has definitely moved away from the intended purpose of this forum, design and home improvement. There’s so much excellent invaluable advice given here and I feel that should be the focus and I’m sure there are other forums better suited to this kind of debate. Sorry if I maybe sound condescending, not my intention, and I’m not the Houzz police either lol!
    My opinion to original question is anyone facing that decision should base the decision on what works best for yourself, your family, and contractor.

  • jmm1837
    7 months ago

    At the start of this thread, I said I'd be okay with a very short term project, but not a bigger, longer term one due to the uncertainty of the situation. That was a week and a half ago. Now, I'd say, put everything on hold. Too many lockdowns, too many questions about supplies, and no clear understanding of how widespread the virus really is. Plus, it appears the virus can survive on some surfaces for over two weeks. It's all too risky, and if that makes me paranoid, so be it.

  • A S
    7 months ago

    Beth like I said not related to America. In general fresh produce if more expensive than less healthy choices. Fresh and good for you simply does cost more. That’s a known fact.

  • PRO
    Beth H. :
    7 months ago

    ok AS. yes. it is. there are exceptions. there's an asian market near me that has fresh produce by the truckloads and the price is super low. I guess they buy in mass. I'm sure it's not the only market in america that has it.

    obese people eat a lot of fast food. I know for a fact the money they spend on mcdonalds can buy a lot of good food at the market. which do you think is quicker and easier? that's my point about laziness and motivation. I worked around it for 30 years. I saw it everyday. people are lazy. you think they don't know about fresh food, cost and how to cook it? please. we can argue until the cows come home. I worked in a field where I witnessed lazy people day in and day out. you will never convince me that social medicine would cure that. (because they already were receiving free healthcare) You live in an entirely diff world. I wish you could experience what I experienced here in my world. I'm sure yours is better since you've said you'd die before you'd be an american. There's really nothing left to say so please, stay in your world and i'll stay in mine.

  • PRO
    Beth H. :
    7 months ago

    girl_wonder, if you're still around. have you spoken to any contractors yet about going to the house for work? Since you aren't living there, could he do the work himself or with one or two other guys? For instance, if you had one painting inside, and maybe another one doing exterior work, would that be an option?

    girl_wonder thanked Beth H. :
  • A S
    7 months ago

    Not at all saying it is a your world or my world issue. Not related to social anything. Poverty is intense

  • Paul f
    7 months ago
    last modified: 7 months ago

    jmm1837, I totally agree with you! I'm here in Los Angeles and although there is a tightening lockdown, a friend of mine broke ground TODAY on an ADU in his back yard. He gave the contractor an initial payment a few weeks ago and is trying to get as much done as he can before whatever happens happens! I tried to talk him out of it since the contractor was willing to wait it out but he pushed him into starting today. My friend says he will stay indoors and let them work unsupervised by him. That is my nightmare... letting work be done on my property and me not being there to oversee it.

  • Gerry
    7 months ago

    I live in a condo building. We were advised that we can’t have any renovations started. They will allow those that have started to be finished. They also prohibited moves in or out until our shelter in place laws are lifted. And after following the thread on obesity, we’re all going to come out of this a bit more “fluffy.”

  • A S
    7 months ago

    Beth I am not attacking you in the least. I already apologized for my comments previously and took them down. I am allowed to have different opinions than you regarding obesity, access to healthy food, access to education and options and if this is related to laziness and motivation. It is not an attack. It is a differing of opinion. It has zero to do with Canada ca the US and everything to do with we simply disagree. That’s okay and I’m okay with it. I took my other comments down because they degraded the conversation. Please don’t try and add them in now.

  • PRO
    GLeaks
    7 months ago

    I come from a socialist country and I know how free healthcare works.I think socialized medicine sucks.Beth I agree with you 100% (finally someone with common sense)

  • DD Deco
    7 months ago

    Thank you all for a wonderfully thoughtful debate. I have followed along and actually learned so much about my country (US) and others around the world. Bry911, the statistics you posted as to how much Americans pay for the world’s pharmaceuticals is staggering and shows why it’s difficult to fix the American system as once again, we are being bled dry to help the world, without a vote. It also highlighted why the business man we currently have serving our people from the White House is zeroing in on that area of our medical system. I knew there was a problem but thank you for educating me as to the main reason why. Perhaps the world will start sharing a bit of that burden as well. Brilliant commentaries!

  • wacokid
    7 months ago

    The USA does most of the heavy lifting in the world. Canada benefits greatly being our neighbor. Its like having a big brother. You can mouth off all day to him. But when you get in trouble, it’s your big brother that will stand in front of you to shield from harm. We are tuff and independent and like it that way.

  • wacokid
    7 months ago

    One of the above links had Spain and Italy as countries with the best health care. Both those countries have much higher death rates for coved then the US. And before you go all bry911 on me, that is data taken from when each country began having problems and then the same amount of days from that. I think it was 19 days. Just saying, not everything posted here is fact.

  • PRO
    Joseph Corlett, LLC
    7 months ago

    wacokid:


    Death rates without context are meaningless. The northern Italian deaths had a predominance of elderly with pre-existing conditions. Those people had one foot in the grave already. The type of health care system is nearly irrelevant. Correlation is not causation.

  • tryingtounderstand
    7 months ago
    last modified: 7 months ago

    Canada USA relations are unlike any in the world. We share the world’s longest unprotected border. Our values, interests, sports, etc are deeply intertwined. When one crosses the border, it is difficult to ascertain one is in a different country, other than flags and, yikes ! metric mileage postings.

    Our education systems are intertwined, to the extend that professional degrees such as MD and othere are recognized in each country.

    We have stood side by side, fought and died on same battle field, cried, prayed and stood as one in catastrophic times.

    Yup, we have fat people on both sides of the border...go figure!


  • wacokid
    7 months ago

    It’s so easy to get fat. You can’t drive a few blocks, at least here in the USA, without seeing a fast food or regular restaurant. Adds on TV for them are endless. And the food does taste good but is loaded with calories, plus it’s cheap. It takes tremendous discipline to stay healthy/thin. I would not call it being lazy or not having access to healthcare. It’s a big, yes big, problem.

  • tryingtounderstand
    7 months ago

    Have you seen those all you can eat buffets...Yikes!!

  • bry911
    7 months ago

    One of the above links had Spain and Italy as countries with the best health care. Both those countries have much higher death rates for coved then the US. And before you go all bry911 on me, that is data taken from when each country began having problems and then the same amount of days from that. I think it was 19 days. Just saying, not everything posted here is fact.


    First, the U.S. has the best emergent care in the world, largely because that is the only access to care that a significant portion of our population has. In fact, you are looking at the only benefit of a busted system as proof positive we are better. Few people die of dehydration on a fresh water lake, that isn't a testament to the general safety of freshwater lakes.

    Furthermore, Spain - deaths 4,019, recovered 7,015. - Italy deaths 7,503, recovered 9,362 - U.S. deaths 1,037, recovered 428... Now those numbers are largely meaningless as is comparing a virus on a timeline when countries have drastically different R-naughts. I assure you, your point on the efficacy of the U.S. healthcare system can be made when this is over, there is no need to jump the gun and do it today.

  • PRO
    Mint Tile LLC
    7 months ago
    last modified: 7 months ago

    On topic, we have a floor project we were to start this past monday, on monday the news was already predicting our Guvn'r was to implement shelter in place. I am glad we decided to postpone as i would have my clients house torn apart and a worksite right now. Was a very hard call to make, we plan to start that job in 2 weeks after shelter in place. Time will tell, good luck to all, Joe included

    girl_wonder thanked Mint Tile LLC
  • wacokid
    7 months ago

    On a happier note, I was able to walk my daughter down the aisle last November. I really hope everybody's life gets back to where they want it to be. Here's "My Angel"



  • Chessie
    7 months ago

    Sweet!!

  • Paul f
    7 months ago

    They can find everyone who is price gouging on handsanitizer in two days but can't track down who jacked the price on Insulin ($500) and Epi-Pens ($700). Americans are being bled dry by the pharmaceutical companies. The 'businessman' sure isn't trying to find out either.

  • Missi (4b IA)
    7 months ago

    Ours is still trucking along. We went to get some things last night as the feeling is a lock down is coming, so just in case.

    girl_wonder thanked Missi (4b IA)
  • Mittens Cat
    7 months ago

    Wow, I just wanted to check in and see if anyone was remodeling through this pandemic. Holy moly you guys!


    @girlwonder and anyone else in the throes of remodeling, I feel for you! Glad ours is (mostly) done. We put off kitchen bs and fireplace and still don't have mirrors in half the bathrooms, but who cares at this point. Roof over our heads and some extra square footage makes for plenty of comfort all things considered. Cheers!

    girl_wonder thanked Mittens Cat
  • mjkjrobinson
    7 months ago

    Pul F. That"s horrible how dare they charge so much in a pandemic how stupid! My husband is diabetic so I understand your pain at paying so much! We haven"t started our renos yet, my hubby is working at home! So I"m gardening!

  • mjkjrobinson
    7 months ago

    Hey Canada"s Health Care is AWESOME!

  • monicakm_gw
    7 months ago
    last modified: 7 months ago

    We were starting a laundry room remodel when the warnings were getting nitty gritty. We only had one sub here (tape and bed and paint). DH installed he new hot water heater, lighting, all the tear out and adding new trim...crown, base and door. Painter just did the wall color and glitter.

    By trade he is a carpet installer. Right now the three flooring stores he contracts for are only scheduling new work...no remodel work in occupied homes.

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  • PRO
    Build Beautiful
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