How old is the house? Are the windows original?

When I was growing up lead paint was common - we didn't throw stuff out or suffer any effects from that paint.

Lead dust does represent a health risk to people, but particularly to children as they have their hands in their mouths all the time and can readily ingest it that way. Painting over what you have is a solution that will probably control the flaking for a good while and buy you some time so that don't have to deal with this all at once. Here is some info on what is involved if you want to avoid paying a remediation firm to do this labor-intensive work: How to remove lead paint

And here is some helpful and reliable info about lead at EPA's web site: EPA: Lead, which might help you better assess what you're dealing with. This EPA pamphlet is clear and balanced: Renovate Right

I think that's a tin ceiling not ceiling tiles.

If you have original windows in an older house replacing them would be a shame. You can't begin to get new windows of the quality as older windows. If you do insist on replacing the windows and they are original, take them out carefully and store them so a next owner can restore them.

My DD and her DH bought a house that was built in 1930. They repainted the upstairs windows that were all ready painted. The downstairs windows were not painted. When they had their first child she said there was no problem, he did not chew on the window ledges! If you have a chewer it would be a problem. BTW, she is a pediatrician.

Thanks everyone. The house is 1850. @kathyg_in_mi did they do a lead test? Do they if there was lead or lead dust, or maybe they were just lucky and had no lead? @User yes i'm currently battling my partner, but I don't think we're replacing windows anytime soon (though some people do love new ones...but i'm for restoration. we'll see how cold and drafty they are). @cat_ky the ceiling is tin and yes, we DEF should have done the lead inspection ....everyone told us don't bother cause you know there's lead, but knowing if it is a problem is a whole different story! Update: we're still undecided on what to do and still stuck in the epicenter of the pandemic in NYC. :(

I don't know if they did a lead test. But because of the age of the home they knew that there was lead paint every where. They did repaint the whole house and eventually replaced the windows upstairs. Luckily the windows downstairs were not painted. But they were sure the walls were all painted with lead paint.

the lady they bought it from, bought it from the original owner in 1931, I think. She had her hundredth birthday in the house with her family, then went up to bed. Died in her sleep that night.

They love that house and have put lots of $$$ into it because it was never really updated and they have tried to keep the integrity of the house. The bathrooms (1 1/2) have beautiful tile work. The wood floors they had refinished and are just gorgeous.

The big problem they had was that there was, was that it had a boiler that ran on oil and there was an oil tank buried in the back yard. They had the owners of the home remove the tank and the soil and DD and her DH replaced the boiler and ran a gas line for it. They have old fashioned radiators in each room.

I will email her tonight and let you know what she says about lead paint.

Sorry to ramble on about this, but I love old homes!

Not all old houses have or had lead paint. Also properly restored old windows aren't drafty or cold, I've had friends visit in the middle of winter that were surprised that there were not drafts or cold spots.

Raye-

Yes, not all older homes have lead, but about 9 out of 10 built before 1940 do:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/realestate/in-older-houses-a-trove-of-lead-risks/2019/09/25/4ce7e5ce-b238-11e9-8949-5f36ff92706e_story.html%3foutputType=amp

Thanks @kathyg_in_mi . Lead paint everywhere isn't a problem if it's all covered up and secure. Flaking and dust is the problem. @User great to hear your restored windows aren't drafty. I've heard very conflicting reports on that. We were quoted $1000-$1250 to restore each window. At 21 windows, we're not tackling that project anytime soon. But, if the lead continues to be a problem after the painting, then we'll probably restore 1 in each room and only open those ones.

We got a new quote from someone today for $2000-$3000 to fix all the flaking paint, which is so much less it's scary. But he's highly rec'd. We're gonna go with him and hire cleaners to come in after him, and if it fails at least it's not a $12,000 loss! And we'll have some of the work done.

And yes @kathyg_in_mi we have soooooo much else to fix and update after this problem is dealt with. So much. Which is why we're hoping to not spend ALL the money here before we even get started!

jenny-

Is your lead paint guy accredited, meaning has he taken the appropriate remediation courses and passed them, and does he have accreditation from Federal or state government? The main problem with some people who do these things cheaply is that they do them incorrectly, without proper containment, tools, and techniques, and end up contaminating your house. Maybe this guy is totally legitimate, but you need to do two things: 1) ask him what his credentials are, and 2) familiarize yourself with appropriate abatement techniques so you have an idea that what he’s doing is correct. You want to protect your family so please take a look at the link below:

https://www.epa.gov/lead/lead-abatement-program-training-and-certification-program-lead-based-paint-activities-tsca

in particular, there are links in the reference above that will allow you to find abatement contractors that are accredited in your state; so you should be able to check on this person.

Yes @kudzu9 he is. And I have read EVERYTHING. I'm still scared he's gonna mess it up, but I'm scared with everyone doing that except the guy who costs $16.500 and guarantees it, and that is just crazy. We might need to end up restoring the windows for a long-term fix, and this leaves us money to do so.

Waiting for my DD to respond.

They were told by a window person that the windows that they have downstairs (with screens and storms) were in perfect shape and no reason to change then out!

DD's response was, No. But we had our kids tested and their levels were normal. We just assumed lead in the house.

Will ask her how old the kids were when tested. They had no kids when they bought the house.

jenny-

Sounds like you're on top of it. And hopefully you can relax about this: watching him set up in the first hour or two you should be able to determine if he's working responsibly. I've seen a lot of people charging high prices for something that can be done properly for much less, so since he's certified and has good reviews, it should be fine.

Good luck. If you have any concerns or questions as this proceeds, please re-post and I'll try to help: I spent part of my career as an environmental scientist and lead removal regulator.

Jenny, this is what my DD, the pediatrician, emailed me. Hope it helps.

Either 9 or 12 months Is normal and then again at 3-5 years possibly. Tate actually had 2 or 3 tests because we were remodeling the kitchen

I check any child who lives in a home built prior to 1978, even if they don’t have any chipping cracking or peeling paint

@kudzu9 WHAT you're a lead removal regulator???? I have a million questions!!! Mostly, what would you recommend??? If it was your house? And what do you think of our numbers?? (In OP) We're definitely re-testing before we move in. I feel like our first inspector tried to scare us and force us to the pricey abatement contractor. We called another inspecting company, and they gave us free advice. And said the numbers weren't actually as bad as they made it seem. And that we could probably clean it up ourselves if we were careful. She also sent me the super helpful state guide on exactly how to remediate. The first company didn't offer us any of this calm and balanced input, which makes me trust them less.

Jenny - new windows are going to be at least $1000 a piece, they were when I had new windows put in a newer house over ten years ago. The easiest way to do this is to have the professional do one window while you watch and learn from him. Then do the rest of the windows yourself, the cost is in the labor.

I’m sorry to be the negative Nancy here but I was in your shoes. I hired professionals to do the cheaper solution. We hired the best guy in our area to scrape and cover the lead paint. We paid over $20k. Within a year dust was coming off of frequently used windows and door frames again. It wasn’t visibly bad but our kids lead levels shot back up and the dust levels were high again. We ended up having the whole house bagged, we moved out for a week, and all of the wood removed. All of the trim, frames, doors. It was over 50k. If I could do it again I’d do the real fix of removing everything in the first place. I love antique homes but lead isn’t something to half fix and I felt that these guys who say you can cover it over screwed us. They don’t want to deal with removal because it is hard and dangerous. I had to search for a team who would remove it in the end. I suggest you go with removal straight up.

thank you @wildauddie That is actually really helpful, and makes me even more inclined to go with the cheaper guy. I would go absolutely nuts if we went with the fancy guy and it was all back a year later!!! A lot of people do cover it over and it's fine, so we're trying that first.

@User yes we were quoted $1000-$1250 per window.

In a year, we will likely qualify for the state abatement program, so they can help us if it turns out to be an extremely pricey fix.

UPDATE: we went through 2 dust tests (and 2 cleanings) before we passed. We got the all clear and moved in, but now that we're here, we see the work was not done properly, and there is flaking paint underneath. So, we're back to the same question - replace or restore all window. @wildauddie has me feeling scared of restoration, but almost everyone else says keep the old windows if possible! @kudzu9 any expertise to share? If we strip and restore, will the dust be back in a year???

Dust mainly comes from sanding, which presumably is done. Paint chips are mainly a concern if they get loose, fracture into small fragments, and get consumed. If some paint was left on the windows at the time of the remediation, it's possible to have more flaking. How bad it this? Can you post some pictures?

dont replace the window! Old house need the stability old frames. New window frames will just warp. All yuou need is Killz primer. Then go through house with Lockup Lead home lead neutralizer. Have Victorian house. Wear masks and painter's jumpsuits. Get a spraygun- can rent at hardware store and do yourself. Love the

@kudzu9 here you go. added one of the exterior so you can see how great that looks too. :( These were all recently painted and look like this - but paint was flaking and painter obviously didn't scrape like he was supposed to. So i feel like this attempt was a waste. Now I think we have to either completely restore or replace. But even if we restore, you can see the trim is in similar condition, so then I think we have to replace all the trim on top of that? Or, scrape and repaint ourselves. Stairs also chipping - want to see if I can get someone to wet sand and repaint those for us. Also attached one page of our report so you can see how high the levels are - most pages were similar!

We are not touching these windows for now but we've only been here about 10 days and i feel ike there is dust/chips already anyway - I am wiping them with clorox wipes pretty often.

That looks like a not very good job. Some of those areas don't look like they were scraped of loose stuff before painting, others look like they were scraped, but no effort was made to sand the edges smooth to allow a decent, smooth-looking coat of paint to be applied, and some of those areas looks like an incompatible paint was used that didn't adhere well. Having said that, I don't see it as a looming hazard at the moment, especially since you are practicing good housekeeping. However, what you got was not very workmanlike, and I think the areas where you actually have flakes falling off need to be redone properly. Sorry you have to deal with this, but it's good you are as observant as you are. It would be interesting to know if you got the job tasks in writing that specified exactly what the person you hired claimed he would do to remediate this. For example, did he do anything other than saying that he would "scrape" and paint? That type of description doesn't say much, whether it's oral or in writing.

My brother was able to obtain a grant for lead removal on his house. He qualified because he had children in his home. Google “grants for lead paint removal” and see what you can find. It might be worth a shot.

@kudzu9 yes exactly. not very good job at all! However, we did know this was a risk choosing the cheap option. I tried to be as specific as possible in writing over email (and we actually emailed him yesterday with photos saying he didn't do what we agreed to - but no response from him). Anyway, the point is, what now? Can these be restored and be totally safe? Do we need to replace all the trim? There was just so much flaking when we bought it - we should have gone with the lead specialist guy, but we didn't realize how big the problem was. Also what vacuum to dyou rec'd? i want to get one right away, but odn't want a big shop vacuum going up and down the chipping lead stairs. And I'm scared if any of the home hepa vacuums are actually safe. We have a dyson w/ hepa filter, but it's bagless. Everything online is confusing...

Jenny, was your contractor licensed and insured? He needs to make it right!

I think that this could be improved on and made safe without removing trim and replacing windows by hiring a qualified person to redo the problem areas. I obviously can't tell whether the person you hired did work that was marginal everywhere or only partially crappy: perhaps, with what he did, the overall situation is much improved. And, on the positive side, if the cleanup afterwards was well done, I doubt that you have microscopic lead dust to contend with...just the flakes themselves, which is easier to manage. If you could have some testing done to confirm that there isn't residual, random, unseen lead dust, then wet cleaning and use of a regular vacuum is probably going to be ok for now. HEPA vacs are mainly warranted when you have extremely small particles like microscopic lead dust or asbestos fibers.