Thanks Alameda. Karl was a great rosarian and a really nice person. This mix is what Mills Magic is, I think. He had a recipe for the tea, where you put in alfalfa pellets, cotton seed meal etc in a trash can and fill it with water and brew it for a few days in the sun then feed the roses. Do you have that recipe?

I have a very long list of "rose recipes" that I have collected over the years. I didnt find Karl's alfalfa tea recipe but here is another - which could be Karl's - that I found. I think you could just do the alfalfa pellets alone with just an addition or two.......but this sounds interesting, although I have not tried it.

For 5
gallon bucket:

2 C alfalfa
pellets

1 C cottonseed meal

1/3 C Epsom salts

1/3 C fish emulsion

< ¼ C kelp [0.16 C]

<1/4 C molasses [0.16 C]

OR:

In 5 gallon bucket:

4 C alfalfa -
stir during 5-7 days

Add: 4 C Epsom salts

4 C cornmeal

Put 2 C on each bush once a week for a month
in early spring

Here is another from Howard Walters, who many years ago had a wonderful column in the Am. Rose Society magazine. I loved his good advice and have saved many of my old magazines with his columns.

Here is the recipe that
Howard Walters recommended, and it is the ultimate and the best: "Add
10 to 12 cups of alfalfa meal or pellets to a 32 gallon plastic
garbage can (with lid), add water, stir, steep for four or five days,
stirring occasionally. You can also fortify with 2 cups of Epsom
salts, 1/2 cup of Sequestrene (chelated iron now sold as Sprint 330)
or your favorite trace element elixir. The tea will start to smell in
about three days. Keep the lid ON. Use about a gallon of mix on the
large bushes, and 1/3 of that on the minis. And keep the water going.
One load of meal or pellets will brew up to two barrelfuls, but add
more fortifiers. You will see greener growth and stronger stems
within a week." REMEMBER, KEEP THE LID ON. Howard recommended
using this in the fall only, but spring and fall are better rather
than throughout the season. You will notice there is no mention of
making this into garbage international. Just use what is in the
recipe. AND ABOVE ALL - KEEP THE LID ON!!!!

4 C alfalfa pellets : 5
gallon bucket

Add ½ C epsom salts

The first one is probably close to Karl’s recipe. Thanks

Thank you for this post!! 😊

I found the recipe in my archives:

In a 32 gallon trash can with a tight fitting lid, combine:
12 cups Alfalfa Pellets or Alfalfa Meal
6 cups Cottonseed Meal
2 cups Epsom Salts
Optional ingredients:
about 1 cup Kelp Meal
Fish Emulsion
Chelated Iron (if your roses are chlorotic)
Superthrive (added before use, be careful- too much can burn!)

Fill the can with water to the top, cover and let it "brew" in the sun for about 4 or 5 days. Then scoop it out into a bucket and use it to water your roses, tomatoes, whatever. You can leave the sediment in the bottom and refill for a second batch a few days later, then use that sediment as a top dressing. I put in fresh ingredients once a month. That is, I keep refilling the can with water every 5 days when it is emptied. You can buy Alfalfa and Cottonseed meal at feed stores. Read the labels to get the kind without added salts. I feed this tea after pruning and every 5-6 days (when the brew is ready). Once a month I add fish emulsion ( at the time of feeding). The kelp meal gives more drought resistance to the roses.

I used to add 1 cup molasses to trash can and it made the tea smell a lot less. And I used Fish Emulsion as a separate feed by itself.

I've been making an alfalfa tea in my 32 gallon trash can each spring for last two years, but now that I see this recipe -- this year I will add some more ingredients!

DeborDeborah, i used to make this as well and id add a bottle of fish emulsion the day i was to spread it. it smells horrific but my roses loved it so much . i may do it this year when my husband is put of town . he hates the smell !

i read a tip to put the alfalfa in a dollar tree or old pillowcase and use like a tea bag , so you arent left with the sludge .

Interesting, I make alfalfa tea every year too. I wonder why the Howard Walters recipe is so adamant about covering it. Is it helping some sort of process like fermentation, or does he just not like the smell? It’s actually not so smelly after 5 days.

@BenT (NorCal 9B Sunset 14) Then I guess I did mine wrong last year because it was awful smelling! And I'm not sure if did anything. I don't think I'll try it again, but maybe one day I'll splurge on some fish emulsion. Is the fishy stuff supposed to help vegetative growth, or flower power?

While I have used alfalfa meal (and before that, bunny poop) to fertilize various plants, I made alfalfa tea purely by accident, as my bag of meal became moisture damaged. I dumped it all in a big HD plastic tote, filled it with water, let it sit for about a week and then started using the tea as a bi-monthly soil drench. Yes, it stinks initially but the smell fades with time. My vat of tea is now going into its third year, with only annual additions of alfalfa meal....the water pretty much comes from nature, except in midsummer.

I have never followed any "recipe" nor have I ever added anything else to the mix - just the alfalfa meal and water. And yes, it does 'do' something :-) Alfalfa contains a natural plant growth hormone, triacontanol, that encourages basal stemming and stimulates growth and productivity. Roses, clematis, tomatoes and lilies especially benefit from this but virtually all plants will respond with vigor.

If you don't use any other commercial fertilizers, then additives like fish emulsion, seaweed extract or a bit of Epsom salts won't hurt and could help.

But be wary of these recipes for magic concoctions or homemade fertilizers and be cautious of using until you understand precisely what they are supplying to your plants and how and even if their usage is necessary. You run the risk of oversupplying nutrients or supplying those of minimal value or that rarely ever need supplementation. Or are unnecessarily pricey for what they provide. SuperThrive comes immediately to mind as a massive waste of $$!!

Wondering how early to start applying the alfalfa tea? Looks like February here in east Texas isnt going to be too cold.

I was thinking the lid prevents animals from falling into it, thats the only reason I cover mine.

What kind of animals in SF bay go after alfalfa tea, @Nick 10bSW17 ? Vegans? Yuppies?

Haha I wouldn’t want the hipsters thinking I’m brewing Kombucha in my backyard and take it, this funk is for the roses! 🤣

No, I’m more worried about the curious critters attracted to the smell- young raccoons, rats, birds? I’d rather not find a floater although, if it was a rat, I wouldn’t feel as bad as some of the others.

To be honest though, even though I make an alfalfa tea each spring, I think its effect on new cane growth is minimal. This is based off observations I’ve noticed over the years. Adding organic material to the soil is better than not in most cases, nitrogen specifically for new growth, but what I’m leaning towards for more new basal breaks is a HARD prune. The plant is basically responding to damage and pushing new growth to compensate. Often times my new bareroot roses push new canes before any fertilizer/alfalfa has been applied. At least for me and the super mild climate of SF, I believe there is also a noticeable correlation to warmer temps and significant new growth. The first spring time spike into the 60s everything seems to wake up.

I don't think it has to stink. The stink is anaerobic bacteria and doesn't do a thing for plants. I brew mine in a huge Rubbermaid type of rectangular tub with more surface area than a trash can. I think because it is not as deep and perhaps is better oxygenated it doesn't develop the stink, in fact it smells wonderful, like fresh hay. I only brew it for four or five days though, and I do it when temps are still cool. I keep it stirred. I put a few drops of dish detergent in it because someone here , Paul Barden I think, said it helps the tricontinol be available. A low tub is also easier to scoop the stuff out of. I don't know if it's a fact but I imagine more of the tricontinol is extracted from the alfalfa by letting it steep rather than just scattering dry alfalfa around plants. I noticed more basal breaks after using the tea. I don't think I have brewed any before April in zone 7a.

" a few drops of dish detergent in it because someone here , Paul Barden I think, said it helps the tricontinol (sp) be available. "

Absolutely NO scientific basis behind this contention. Dish soap can act as a surfactant and that can be helpful when using as a foliar spray but there is no benefit for adding it to a tea being used as a soil drench. This is where my comment about doing some research before diving into some of these practices comes into play :-) A couple of drops of dish soap is not going to do any harm but that might not be the same with every other additive you include. Some will kill off valuable soil microorganisms, affect soil pH or even impede the availability and uptake of other nutrients.

Yeah, I think a few drops of dish soap is not going to do any harm. It sounded like it could help although I can't find the thread where that was said. I did google tricontinol and see that it is insoluble in water and I think that was the point that had been made in the former thread. I really don't understand how something that is insoluble in water can get into the water if you soak the alfalfa. Or how it can get into the plant if it's insoluble in water.

Here's where I read about it being insoluble when I googled it . Interestingly enough, you can buy tricontinol without doing all that brewing. Please do not consider this a recommendation that anyone buy this:

https://www.powergrown.com/products/all-products/triacontanol/triacontanol-10-grams/

Ok, I found an old thread about the tea and see that it was Mike Rivers who suggested using a small amount of soap in it. Mike Rivers is a chemist. He may not have thoroughly researched alfalfa tea but his guess is probably an educated one. And you did not hear me tell anyone to add a bunch of other stuff to the tea, Gardengal.

@erasmus_gw, if using the alfalfa tea as a foliar spray, adding a few drops of dish soap makes sense. As stated, the soap acts as a surfactant, helping the tea to adhere to the foliage. Foliar fertilization is relatively inefficient to begin with so anything that extends the time the stuff is on the leaves will assist in absorption. It is not a chemical reaction but a physical one so any impact from using the tea as a soil dench is nil. No foliage for the triacontanol to adhere to underground :-)

" And you did not hear me tell anyone to add a bunch of other stuff to the tea, Gardengal. "

You are correct :-) It was earlier comments detailing the 'recipe' with all sorts of other add-ins I was referring to.

Erasmus -- I am no chemist, but I know that the farms using teas made from worm castings recommend oxygenating the worm tea by putting a pump in with the liquid. I don't know if oxygen makes a difference or not for the alfalfa. When I make my worm tea I use the garbage can, but then I use the jet setting on the hose to spray into the can to add a lot of movement and, hopefully, some oxygenation! I don't let the alfalfa steep that long, usually. And, @Lilyfinch z9a Murrieta Ca - I do add the fish emulsion right before I scoop it sometimes. But afterwards, I take all the sludge and dump it around my fruit trees. Even if they're not getting all the nutrients, they need the mulch! :-)

This conversation reminds me of debates between folks re supplements. Some say they're a waste and just give you expensive urine. Others say they are invaluable. Others say that you can screw yourself up if you don't work with a doctor or expert to make sure you have the right supplements and no interactions with other supplements or prescriptions. There are good nuggets of wisdom in all perspectives -- throwing a bunch of stuff willy nilly into a brew because someone said it's a good idea could lead to disastrous effects -- but relying on hard-earned garden wisdom and common sense (yours and others) is also super helpful. As someone on this forum always says, your mileage may vary!