Several years ago, I spent time at the ag library and searched "noisettes" in the time period 1830-1860. There wasn't much. But for about five years, there was a huge amount of publicity (think Kardassian level) about a new and wonderful noisette, that was a golden yellow. to the extent they called it Cloth of Gold. Some of the images of Cloth of Gold that are searchable have way too many petals, especially the lithographs. I'm not sure I believe lithographs because they were sold to be pretty.

Your recurved petaloids to me look like Pearle d'Ore sometimes looks. And a fairly famous French rose grower told me that he wonders at the multiflora side of PdO and when he sees it, he thinks noisette.

The later we got into the 1800s, the denser the petals came. You might also check Mrs. Rion's The Must be in your library. Ladies' Southern Florist, to see if anything sounds right.

I appreciate your suggestions, Ann. I have done some research in the past but without success. Perhaps if I had access to enough catalogs c 1830-60, I might be able to identify it. I think it probably dates to the earlier part of the period.

I had Chromatella at one time, but it rarely bloomed and eventually died. Lamarque and Cl.Devoniensis have done better for me, although not what they once did because we have less sun now in the area where they are planted. I had the impression that Chromatells needed more sun and warmth. A friend who lives nearby has been successful with Marechal Niel by planting it near her heat pump. I believe the mystery noisette is hardier than either Lamarque or Chromatella.

Lindsey

On Noisette hardiness, I have a true seedlng (took three years to bloom). I've had it and several additional plants from it for about a decade. In years when we had winters, it was much stronger come spring than any of my noisettes from various nurseries and this year (we were between a 7 and an 8 and roxburgii is still blooming ) the seedling started blooming early and is still blooming three months later.

I think that lots of our known noisettes have picked up assorted viruses as they have cycled in and out of gardens and that has weakened them. The older the original budwood, the better the chance of the bush being strong. (I think this is why Old Grey Cemetery is so strong .)

Now if we only knew where the recurved petaloids came into the gene pool. Which may mean we need to learn as much as we can about R. moschata and its varieties and any cultural difference tied to different soils.

I hadn't thought about hardiness in this way; however I can say that the provenance of my yellow noisette couldn't be clearer or more direct---ie from Hickory Hill to my elderly friend who married one of the Wickhams and lived at Hickory Hill for many years until the death of her father-in-law to cuttings I took from the plant she propagated before she left Hickory Hill.

Lindsey