OMG! That's a gorgeous rose! Dianela, what red climbers do you already grow? Offhand, I would say NOT Lady in Red which is very modern in look and colour. When Florentina reblooms, I'll see how that looks with DB. I think Cl.Crimson Glory might be a bit too red. Have you considered something like Orfeo? Not sure on its health in your neck of the woods though.

Could you possibly train Darcey Bussell to climb? Seems many Austins could be small climbers in the Sourthern US. That way, you’d have a climber in the exact color of Darcey, lol.

My favorite red climber is Florentina. Not over 7' for me, but in your zone, I imagine it would be taller. HMF says occasional repeat, but I think that's wrong. Mine blooms and blooms and blooms. I wouldn't even say it blooms in flushes because it just always seems to have blooms.

I have Darcy Bussell because of you, Dianela, and I thank you, and think of you, every time I see her. When I need another red shrub rose, it'll be another Darcy.

Lady in Red or Florentina , both have gorgeous red blooms .

Kordes Laguna ADR? A thorny beast but has repeat, fragrance and good disease resistance. The spent flowers don't drop here in hot humid West Virginia but may in drier conditions. I have Darcy, Munstead, Laguna, Florentina and Tess of the de'

Thank you for all the replies. I am so grateful. I have two spirit of freedom that I thought would go in the area and I would move Darcey. My husband keeps begging for me to leave the red roses in front of the house because he likes the contrast with the white brick. I may give it a try and place spirit of freedom somewhere else. Here is where I am so far.

florentina had been my first choice (I love how she looks) but as per another thread a few weeks ago I was told the color is not in the blue range of Darcey and I dont want to mix.

I grow Laguna close to this area already so I want something else. Also here Laguna is hotter pink and less red so far.

Lady in red is definitely too red and would clash, but I wish it wouldn’t because I know it is a better rose than Darcey overall.

I will look into the other reds mentioned here to see what their undertones look like because I am not familiar with Orfeo or Crimson glory.

BenT lol 😆 your solution is too simple and makes too much sense for me to have considered it. I keep my Darceys pruned hard but she may as well grow taller if I let her. She is not as great here with blackspot no spray but it blooms so well I had planted it. I will give it a try as a climber.

Vapor I have never liked reds so I don’t have many. I do not grow any red climber. I have dark desire (could be a climber I think), Bordeaux, Munstead Wood and Darcey. Actually I lied I have one red climber which was an accident (red cascade). I also have Ascot but all those reds get bad blackspot here no spray except Bordeaux and Dark desire. Darcey is an exceptional bloomer but does get blackspot. There only reason it ever made it to the no spray garden is because my local nursery had it this year and I bought them as a temporary solution to a very bare front yard. Now the DH is in love with it.

flowers I am glad you are giving Darcey a try. Even here with some blackspot and me not liking the reds much she is such a good rose with her abundant blooms that I have ended up with 11 of those lol.

it has been hot and I quit spraying around 4 months ago.

She has definitely lost some foliage but it is getting ready to rebloom again

I wish you could see Florentina somewhere to judge. It's a pure red that mixes well. Looking through my 'Master List' of wishes, in addition to Orfeo and Cl. CrimsonGlory (this is not the orange red shown in some pictures), you might take a look at Rhode island Red aka Cl. Red Kocker aka Fields of the Wood, and Cl. Etoile de Holland

Would you be up to contrasting it a bit with Reine des Violettes?

In another direction a two-toned rose could tie in the DB colour, but not need to blend quite so well. I know you already grow RCTwirl and may want something new, so perhaps Harlekin or Paul Jerabek? I'm getting the latter this Fall so can't comment yet, but Peter at Freedom Gardens recommends it highly. I know Linda at LongAgoRoses has Harlekin.

I would love the Reine des Violettes but i was under the impression it is a terrible blackspotter. Is this correct? This is a no spray garden and Darcy is already worse in health than the rest in this garden I don’t want to add anything more blackspot prone. If Reine des Violettes does not blackspot I would absolutely love the red and more purple combo. I will check into the rest you mentioned also. I was even considering Ballerina after seeing this picture at David Austins website

See the purple rose in there also? very lovely combo. Ballerina black spots here also but in full sun it does not get naked I might be able to pull it off.

Ohhhh I also remembered I have 2 Veilchenblau banda under my oak tree waiting for a spot. I am not sure I want to spend my only prime sun spot on a once bloomer, but maybe combined with Darcey for rebloom it would work? Arrrgg it is so hard to decide 😞

Yes, it would be hard using a once=bloomer that could go elsewhere in a premium sun spot. I don't grow RdeV as my cutting died, but I didn't realize it was a BSer. i don't know why i though otherwise. If that's the case, maybe I'll reconsider getting another. (( BTW, I think Linda recommended Harlekin to me and Peter says PJ is quite good in his no-spray garden. @AquaEyes 7a NJ grows Orfeo so maybe he'll comment on its health in NJ.

Ohh Vapor I am sorry to hear that your cutting died. This one would be one I have always wanted and wish I knew someone who grows her in a blackspot area. Those blooms are so lovely.

Dianela, I feel the same way you do about reds. They have to have some irresistible quality for me to plant them. I have Munstead, Wm. Shakespeare 2x, Tess of the d'U, Rouge Royale, Florentina and Darcy, all in the same deep red family. And, Dortmund, a deep fire engine red. I have no idea why, but I like her.

Here's my Florentina. The color looks accurate to me, except my phone turned the lower petals fuchsia. They do get darker as they age.

Darcy gets lighter in the heat and doesn't have a good bloom right now or I would have taken a pic with both together A real plus with Florentina is the heat doesn't change the bloom color or size. However, she may look entirely different in your conditions. I do wish your public gardens had one you could check out.

Flowers in your picture she definitely looks like it wouldn’t clash with Darcy at all. Ohh please if at some point they both are blooming, please take a picture for me. I probably won’t be able to buy Florentina at this point this year so I might have time to get to see them together before choosing. She is very beautiful! I wish we had more public rose gardens around here. I went to the Hunstville botanical garden last year and I had more roses than they do 🙁. The Birmingham botanical garden has a very nice collection with some Kordes and Austins, but they do not have florentina.

edit: I actually checked and Heirloom has florentina right now lol. Ohh boy, I like it so much I’ll probably just shovel prune the 5 DB if they end up clashing lol. I had already ordered 2 honeymoon to try, so might as well ass the Florentinas and see what happens. Is your florentina own root?

Dianela - I just got Reine des Violettes from ARE this spring, and I love it. I'm in a very different climate than you, and don't get much black spot, so unfortunately can't advise on that. But, for what it's worth, I do get a lot of powdery mildew & rust, and so far it has been healthy in my yard without spraying. But, take all that with a grain of salt, due to the difference in climate.

Based on the discussion & options above, if you want a red climber in that spot I vote Florentina, and move the Darceys. Your Laguna would also look bright & cheerful against a light colored wall, but I'm assuming that would be difficult to move!

Dianela, my Florentina is own root and she grew really fast. She bloomed and grew at the same time. I don't know if that was unusual or not, but Lilyfinch said hers didn't bloom the first year and was a slow starter when she was in Tenn., which might be more like your climate and conditions. I don't over feed or anything to get more blooms, so i don't know what made the difference. Kordes don't always work out for me, so I am as surprised as anyone that this one is as good as it is.

I will try to get a photo of Florentina with Darcy.

Thank you Cyndita. Wow I can’t wait to see your Reine d V. I have always admired that rose. I have a this point ordered 2 florentinas from Heirloom. If their colors clash I will move my Darceys. To be honest I really like Darcey but she isn’t as blackspot resistant as she should be to stay in the no spray garden.

Flowers I have already posted this picture in another thread when I was going for a white rose instead of a red. I ordered one for each spot on either side of the middle window. How giant do you think it will get? Was two roses overkill?

I remember this photo and that lake!! What a fabulous place for your family to gather. It will be a rose covered cottage by the time you're finished with it.

Florentina will be bigger in your climate than here, but I don't have a clue how much bigger. Surely someone in the south grows it and can give you a better answer than I.

I'm not sure how helpful the photos will be. Darcy is much pinker than her usual color, because of the heat. It's cooling down some, and I can try again when she's back to her normal color. I cut a stem of Florentina and stuck it in the Darcy bush. They were all starting to shatter. Darcy's still a baby. I just planted her this spring. Florentina isn't small - it's just that Darcy is so big.

By the way, I did not add color. My phone takes very vivid photos.

Thank you a million Flowersaremusic! They both looks gorgeous. Your phone takes amazing pictures. I can tell the difference in their tones in your picture, but they do not clash to me, like an orange red would. I will likely add blue around them also with companion plants or white and hopefully that will tie them together. I love both reds lol (Hopefully my husband never sees these words after I have hated on the reds so much before)

I ordered the Florentinas from Heirloom last night and hopefully they will be here some time after next week for planting. I am relieved I do not have to wait until next year to get this project on the way. Of course I have 3 limoncellos, 1 crazy love, 2 spirit of freedoms and now soon to arrive two honeymoons in pots that I need to plant somewhere while my actual rose beds have knee high weeds. Thank you for your compliments on the house and the lake. I really like it so far and can't wait until my parents and grandparents come to stay with us for several weeks at a time.

That's a great comparison, flowers, especially as Darcey can go more red. dianela, let me see if I can find one of Cori Ann's posts where she compares different reds. She has many pictures of Florentina that also capture the colour perfectly. In Northern OhioZ5, a mature Fl was about 7' tall, but for me she's growing much taller.

Dianela, you're going to be a busy girl with all those roses coming. But, better to get them in now than wait for spring. Then, you will be able to plant another big order in the spring.

Vap, I believe Cori Ann posted her comparison of reds on HMF. It might be easier to find there. I run across it now and then.

Here is a thread with Cori Ann's Florentina showing the colour to perfection. Her comparison post wasn't as useful as I don't think she grew DB. She never posted pics of it, at least. FWIW, I have no problem finding old posts, but thanks for the reminder of her HMF pics. : )) It's nice to have them all in one place.

Kenneth had a thread on Florentina this spring that might be worth re-reading. His is on multiflora (Palentine) and I believe he sprays, but should be similar in terms climate/size/color.

Here's Kenneth's thread. I think this is a rose that truly doesn't need spraying if it's in full sun.

Kenneth's and Cori Ann's Florentinas are truly gorgeous, but they are both redder than mine. Mine is a deeper, cooler red. So, who knows what anyone will end up with. Isn't Kenneth in the south? His would be a good size comparison.

I was thinking a more acidic soil would produce a bluer or darker color, like with hydrangeas, but that can't be it. My soil is alkaline. My Munstead is darker than most of the ones shown here. Didn't Straw do an experiment deepening the color of roses a few years back? I think it involved molasses.

Yes, is is a deep cool red. Cameras are notorious for getting reds wrong. I guess I should post mine and the one at Freedom Gardens, but his looks so bright in pics.

Vaporvac and Flowers reds are so difficult to photograph, that’s why I’ll rather go with your “cool” red assessment than many pictures. I feel like when it comes to reds cools and warms should be kept separate in the garden.

I can’t wait to see what color it turns out to be here. Thank you so much for all the support. I have a lot of work ahead of me lol but I enjoy the struggle. Btw do you both grow spirit of Freedom? Mine are doing so well no spray in full sun that I am in love. The blooms are small right now, but sooo many little petals. I am very impressed that a brand new plant can bloom so well while having so many petals. There might be some roses that need to be shovel pruned so SoF can take their spot.

No, but it's on pre-order for my friend's garden. I have a couple coming this fall and one next year a few from friends. I don't have any place for more with any sun at all. Half of my front yard ended up being bad for them and they never recuperated. I'm waiting until I clear out the bottom area for an arbor. Actually, I still can put some on my hill, but I'm focusing on Hybrid Musks and large bushy roses along with species roses for that area. Please keep us updated on this rose and its health in your garden. As if your garden could get any more beautiful!

"Isn't Kenneth in the south?"

Kenneth is "southern Middle Tn" and Dianela is "northern Alabama." I'd be surprised if they were more the 75 miles apart. Since I'm in the same area I just try to plant what they plant!

Dianela, I grow Spirit of Freedom. One own root and one grafted on Huey. The own root is about 7 yrs old, full sun and the grafted one is about 4 yrs old, gets a little shade and is a tiny bit bigger. Mine are not heavy bloomers, but the blooms are packed with petals and the perfume is lovely and strong. They are 4 to 5' shrubs that throw out longer canes once in awhile. It will probably want to climb for you.

I also recommend Florentina, she’s beautiful and super healthy.. she is a true red. There‘s Crimson Sky, also very healthy and beautiful, it’s a Meilland rose. Tess of the d’Urvervilles is actually pretty healthy and reblooms well for me, it has that cool pinkish red in my garden. Last but not least there is Falstaff, it’s a pretty close match to Darcy in my opinion, and definitely climbs in my warm climate, I don’t know if it’s as healthy as the others, haven’t had it long enough to know for sure.

Vapor I LOVE the hybrid musks. I think Austins and Hybrid musks are top favorite for me. I would love to hear which ones perform the best for you regarding blackspot. I currently have buff beauty ( 2nd year own root, ok foliage and does not bloom well yet), Darlow's enigma is a beast and perfect everything. Sally Holmes is doing better this year and I love the blooms. Dr. Korms is absolutely lovely, but black-spots also. Any of your hybrid musks has clean foliage no spray?

subk3: Kenneth mentioned one time he was close enough to my area to drop by one weekend. I am sure he has been busy this summer because I have not seen him post in a while. I am like you, I keep an eye on those with similar black spot pressure in order to maximize chances of success. Pat here in the forum is less than an hour away from me and she has a no spray garden, so if she says a rose performs well for her it gives me a very good idea for my ow yard.

Raoul Thank you very much for your comment. I am certainly hoping Florentina will stay healthy and bloom well. My biggest issue with some Kordes is that they don't repeat as well as my Austins. I have high hope for Florentina tho after all the encouraging comments on this post. To be honest Falstaff was the rose I had in mind as the perfect match for the color, but I am pretty certain none of those older Austins can do well here no spray. Even the brand new Emily Bronte with her excellent health review has lost her foliage in my garden no spray.

As I have mentioned in another post my neighbor has Roald Dahl and it is excellent. It gets mainly Sun but some dappled shade and he said one up his 10 bushes got a bit of BS on the bottom. He also has three gorgeous looking Lady of Shalott. Again he said a little tiny bit of black spot at the bottom but nothing. He does not spray. I didn't ask him if he used to systemic! I only say this because he is also growing 10 Chrysler Imperial that AR Immaculate! And he said he does not spray. I'm hanging my head in shame over his garden. Of course it's the size of a postage stamp I tell myself so he does not have so much to do but what he has done this spring is amazing. I felt a bit better when I saw his Pope John Paul 2 with a single bloom and riddled with black spot that he had stuck more in the shade.

I know that didn't answer your question! :-) LOL! I recently took cuttings of Marjorie Fair and wind chimes as they were so outstanding looking on my hill! These roses have received nothing. I did give them some fertilizer in the spring and manure compost then. But not even water! I will check on them this week. We are spending the next two days at my friends house doing his floors and helping with the shed and checking in on the Roses! That he has on his new fence so I will be back too late to venture back there. But I will do that probably tomorrow or Thursday. I know if a rose goes well there it is going to do well anywhere. It is a similar area to where I have pink pet. A r e s Excellence on Schubert also was looking very good. Prosperity not so good but flowering! Darlow's Enigma excellent. Apple blossom and Skyrocket very good. Bubble bath medium as well as Belinda. I do believe Belinda is better on Black Spot. I can't say for sure because I have not waited that bed all summer and we will see how it does now that it is cleaned out.! Unfortunately Christian J does black spot but I have not really watered this rose that much and I think that does affect black spot.

I thought perhaps being a possible child of darlow's enigma it would do better. You're not rule it out though

Thank you very much Vapor for your messages. That is so nice of you all to go help a friend out. I really appreciate you sharing which roses do well for you. I am not familiar with some of those so I will go have fun googling them now. I am sure it is a lot easier for your neighbor to keep a small yard picked up for sure. I some times think if my only garden was at the lake (small regular lot) I could have a very full freed of weeds garden. Of course I am too rose greedy to give up my regular large garden even if it looks like a wild field by summer because I am too tired and too hot 🥵.

should read it should read Applejack not Apple Blossom. I have Applejack, the buck Rose. Very fragrant.

Dianela

I would second Tess D Uberville and Florentina. I don’t have black spot here in my area so I can’t speak to that part, but both of these climbers I have been very happy with. My experience is that Florentina loves the hot sun. You said your location is in full sun and that you like Florentina; so it might be a good choice for you. I think it’s hard to know what colors will look better with your DB until you plant it. It seems like the colors vary depending on each persons location and soil ect...for example I grew Laguna and it was a hot pink for me but others I see look more red. My Florentina is a different color red than Flowersaremusics Florentina.

Below is pictures of my Tess and Florentina. They are completely different reds for me. Top is Tess and bottom Florentina. Not the best quality photo but the color is accurate.

Thank you all for the support. I have the Florentinas and one Sombreuil (Colonial White) on their way. I know that Sombreuil may be overkill, but this way my DH gets his bright splash of color and I get the white romantic fragrant blooms. 🤞😄will share the results in the future.

Can’t wait to see them! your roses are all

so beautiful and those two will be stunning.

Dianela, you mentioned Reine des Violettes. My climate is fairly similar to yours; I'm in hot humid southeast Virginia. In our garden Reine blackspotted terribly. She was also very stingy with the blooms -- though perhaps it was just an underperforming specimen -- and her color was never anything I would call violet. It was more fuschia. I had high hopes for that rose and she never lived up.

Thank you very much Lal for your super nice comment. I can’t wait to see how they turn out.

Suzanne thank you for sharing your experience with Reine. It is always great to get feedback from those who have similar conditions and avoid all the disappointment.

That is sad to hear the RdeV can't be grown no-spray in our type of climate, but so true it's best to avoid the disappointment and find something else.

Ohh Vapor what a shame that some of the loveliest roses are such a mess for blackspot. I am glad to not even try her now and avoid the disappointment also.

I have Cl. Crimson Glory on order for fall planting. I really wanted Marie Nabonnand but sadly she is not sold anywhere. Does anyone grow Cl. CG and how big does it get for you? I got it due to reports of strong fragrance but doesn’t seem to be mentioned much here. Maybe it has a major flaw that I wasn’t aware of, so that it’s not as popular?

There is also climbing etoile de Hollande.

Stephanie, many great roses are unavailable because they are not under patent and have no marketing team. I miss Vintage.