If you hired a GC or a qualified tile contractor to do this, and your contract said things like "installed to industry standards," then the GC or tile contractor should re-demo and re-do it on his dime. If you independently hired your own cheap, unqualified tile dude, then the results are probably expected.

If it's a GC or tile pro, have a sit down meeting, point out the problems and ask them to fix or re-demo and build again on their dime.

I'll ask the obvious question -- what was the waterproofing process and materials underneath this tile?

The wall with the niche looks like very different work that the wall 90 degrees to it, and even that wall looks different comparing the top half to the bottom half.

It's like 3 different workman did this room.

Here is a picture of the waterproofing. There is green board behind whatever this red product is. Blue tape is when we asked contractor to stop and called out the bulging. It just got worse from here. This is a large contractor in a small town. We are at the end of a very expensive new home construct and feel like they are blowing us off to be done with project and move on to next. I’ve heard the words “with in tolerance” about a hundred times on this tile.

I'm glad you have in-progress photos. I'm not a pro, but I also always take in-progress photos. Hopefully a pro on here will respond regarding if the waterproofing looks right. My non-pro eye doesn't see taping and sealing of the joints between whatever that backer board is.

Don't let them bully you with comments like "within tolerance" or "you're too picky,." Have a sit-down meeting and withhold payment til they address your concerns. Keep posting here. Builders often times hire cheap unqualified people as subs hoping the homeowner doesn't notice or care.

Important: ALL communication is by email 100% from now on. Anything verbal is confirmed by email. Nothing verbal matters at all unless it is confirmed by email. I'd go into detail on how I know that's so important, but that would take too long.

That looks terrible. It looks like he didn't know what he was doing and didn't put the mortar on evenly which is why some tiles stick out. Sometimes tiles are bowed from how they were stored but that's for long plank tiles not subway tiles.

Listen exactly to AJCNs advice. Everything in email or writing with signatures. Be detailed about your concerns. Def hold back payment bc you may need it for the next guy (Like I did) My guy was big in the community but he decided halfway through our job he was moving (entire gut of 2/2 villa every room) With the end in sight he did sloppy work instead of having his tile guy come he decided to do it himself, it was glass tile and he kept blaming the tile which I did change from individual 3x6 to glass tile on a sheet bc he whined so much. I guess that was a clue. He had it halfway up (most of the glass cracked and was useless but he put it up anyway) It had to be ripped out and reinstalled by another tile guy who did a beautiful job. I was still out money for the job tho. Don't be intimidated by this guy. They are good at that.

Omg, no. Please don't settle for that quality, and please take everyone's advice about doing 100% email communication from here on out so you have proof of everything said.

That looks terrible, I'm so sorry!!! :(

"There is green board behind whatever this red product is"

Green board has zero place in a shower. This is now a complete gut and do over as you have zero waterproofing. The red is Redguard which is waterproofing if properly applied by drywall (even moisture resistant) in not the proper substrate at all.

What brand/series are the tiles? What's the suggested manufacturer grout spacing? What were they actually spaced at? Those answers will tell a lot about the current situation.

There is green board and RedGuard in ALL of our four bathrooms on this project! What should have been used?

These are Daltile Color Wheel Classic 3x6. Manufacturer calls for 1/16 grout. I honestly am not sure what he did, but I recall 1/16 was our request.

I read on another board that using redgard on greenboard is not an NTCA approved method. Any pros out there with advice on this?

Cement board then Redguard, drywall has zero place in shower even with the Redguard it is not waterproof. Moisture resistant drywall is about the worst substrate for this application. Were there permits pulled and the showers inspected? This will not pass code and in short order be a real mess.

Here are more images of other bathrooms. Redgard is one layer and does not go all the way up the wall.

Sorry to say but this is a botched up job that was done by some amateur.

that is not RedGard. It looks like a waterproofing membrane over greenboard, which is not the preferred way to go but it is acceptable providing they followed the instructions for taping the seams, etc. Schluter Kerdi is a similar product but it is orange, not red(ish). Talk with the contractor and have them walk you through what they used. The tile looks wonky. The worst thing you can do is go in with “the internet told me.” It just won’t end well. You do have a right to know how your house is built so start with “help me understand” questions and get into the details with your contractor.

4 bathrooms done wrong is a lot. Maybe you could find a certified tile professional in your area to come do an inspection and write you a report of all the things done wrong, referencing various building codes and industry standards that were not followed. We did that. Stop the work til you get that and then have a meeting with builder to go over all the mistakes and ask them what their plan is for re-building all the bathrooms properly. Here’s a couple resources where you can search for a tile professional. If you can’t find someone, you could post your general area and a pro on here could refer you. That’s what I did when I was having difficulty finding a real tile pro.

Here are 2 organizations with search tools on their websites.
www.tile-assn.com
Click on “find a contractor” and enter your zip code. Let the miles radius be fairly large, like 50 miles or so. The excellent tile pro that built all my bathrooms was on that site in my area, but about 40 miles away bc he was near downtown and I’m in a suburb.

www.ceramictilefoundation.org
This site has lots of good information on it. I didn’t find my contractor on this site, but a lot of people have told me that they had luck with it.
Here’s where you click to find a contractor:
www.ceramictilefoundation.org/find-certified-tile-installers

Also, if you are a nerd like me and you like to read, you could download a digital version of the TCNA handbook. It’s less than $40. It’s over 600 pages, but you don’t have to read the whole thing. Read the introduction (about 50 pages) and then read the tub/shower chapters. You can skip all the other chapters such as swimming pools, etc. Reading this helped me to learn about the process and industry standards for water proofing and tile installation; it helped me to ask more informed questions, and helped a lot in my meeting with the contractor who messed up my shower.
www.tcnatile.com/products-and-services/publications.html

After the pro you hire for the inspection gives you his written report of all the things done wrong, have a business meeting with the contractor at the worksite and discuss all the problems. If the baths need to be completely redone, ask them to do that, at their expense. You are under NO obligation to give the contractor/builder a copy of your report. That is yours. If they want a report, they can go hire someone to inspect. They don’t even need to know you have it. Document the results of the meeting by email to the contra tor/builder. You need to document the non-waterproof status of your bathrooms. You need the contractor to say or wrote that they used drywall. Find a way to get that confirmed by email. Ask something like “Say, what brand of moisture resistant drywall was it that you used for the shower?” Get them to answer you by email.

Sorry this is happening to you. It happened to me. It's far too common.

Be 100% professional in all your emails. Assume some judge might be reading them one day, that’ll influence the language you choose. Save all correspondence. Have a support person with you at the meeting to take notes. Meeting should be at the work site, not the builders office. Even if you can’t hire a pro quickly enough reading all the posts here and the TCNA chapters and reading on the ceramic tile website, plus printing out the red guard and whatever brand of drywall it was instructions should prepare you for the meeting. Hand them the instructions and ask them how they’re going to get that drywall out of your showers.

I agree that this looks like a Kerdi-type membrane which, to my understanding, is approved over drywall, even in shower enclosures. But the application based on some of the photos seems suspect.

The bad tile work may actually be a bad wall. It's pretty difficult to screw up the install of a Daltile tile as they are generally flat and consistent. I would not say this is within normal tolerance.

So is it waterproof then? OP needs to know whether they are dealing with a waterproofing issue or not. If it’s not a waterproofing issue, the other 3 bathrooms could be okay, and the 4th one has a botched tiling job. Simplifies the meeting if OP only has to address one bathroom.

Thanks everyone for the good advice. We will go to our contractor and ask for specifics. We are also going back to house today to try and find product names on anything laying around.

Also, if it is Kerdi, shouldn’t it be all the way up the wall?

Looked through Idaho code. I can’t figure out if Usg sheet rock “greenboard” would meet these standards, per Idaho code:

Fiber-cement, fiber-mat reinforced cementitious backer units, glass mat gypsum backers or fiber-reinforced gypsum backers in compliance with ASTM C 1288, C 1325, C 1178 or C 1278, respectively, and installed in accordance with manufacturers' recommendations shall be used as backers for wall tile in tub and shower areas and wall panels in shower areas.

Did the contractor give you the exact brand and name of the product used?

Fiber-cement, fiber-mat reinforced cementitious backer units, glass mat gypsum backers or fiber-reinforced gypsum backers in compliance with ASTM C 1288, C 1325, C 1178 or C 1278, respectively, and installed in accordance with manufacturers' recommendations shall be used as backers for wall tile in tub and shower areas and wall panels in shower areas.

very important to read that bold, italicized sentence. MANUFACTURERS recommendations, not the GC's recommendations.

find out what waterproofing membrane they used. it's not Redgard.

then look up the specs to that membrane and see what THEY recommend goes underneath their product.

However, this alone warrants a tear out.

the waterproofing is supposed to go up past the shower head. obviously any water protrusion from this spot is going to wet the green board. The water damage will seep downward and completely soak all of that green board behind the red stuff which will crumble and wet your studs. now you have mold city.

green board is NOT ok for a shower. damp areas, yes. Wet areas NO. (and it clearly says so on their specs). I just don't understand GC's who don't use cement board. the cost is maybe 20-30 bucks more for it as opposed to the green board.

this is not to code.

besides that fact that you have raw gypsum facing outward, with absolutely no waterproofing membrane on it, you have no taped seams or screw holes. water has free access to these joints. (tile and grout are not waterproof) This is bad.

stick a level on your niche bottom shelf. is it sloped downward? if not, water will collect in there. how was the niche waterproofed? if it's like that shower head area, you're in trouble.

this next pic is Cement board with property taped niche and joints. a layer or thinset mortar will next go over this. Then a waterproofing membrane. (or a vapor barrier should have been used in back of all this. one or the other)

this is proper, industry standards and the way a shower should be done.

AS for the tile itself, it's the overhead light that is highlighting the uneven tiles. this is not industry standard. (and to say that Grout is the magic cure-all is a sign of a lazy, stupid contractor). The wall wasn't plumb to start, hence the tiles that go up aren't plumb. light from above casts shadows from the tiles that stick out further than what's below them.

Start w/plumb/level walls, (which they should have done first) and you won't get that.

btw, what's all this mess on the wall? sorry, but your tile people are lazy, lazy, lazy.

and I also see tile slivers in the corners. another sign of a lazy tile person who can't be bothered w/measuring first. You can see how that bottom corner portion bows out, and then further up sits further back. That's why the corner tiles are all diff sizes. if that wall would have been fixed to be plumb, the tiles would be the same cut size.

Let me guess. they used grout in the joint between tub/tile and the vertical corners? Also a no-no. should be silicone caulking

similar long niche. perfectly done.

better tile layout, better niche job

I'm so sorry you're going through this. make sure all conversations are written from this point. you've already paid in full?

depending on his response, you may require legal counsel.

Oh dear...how defeated we feel today. @AJCN we are drafting an email with specific questions today to get exact product used.

Years ago, when I didn’t know better, I had a new shower put in my master bedroom suite, and greenboard was used: the contractor told me it was “waterproof.” ;-)

The tiling was beautiful and impeccable. A couple years later tiles were bulging and falling off the wall in several places because moisture had made its way through and the greenboard was turning to mush. Never again.

Even with a seemingly properly installed moisture barrier, I will only trust a tile job installed on cement backer board. I know that may be overly cautious, but having to gut a shower is something I don’t want to repeat.

I don’t use Durock or Hardibacker for wet areas anymore. I really like the reliability, installation, and performance of the Schluter system. Pan or curbless, I start with Ditra on the floor and work up from there with everything Schluter. I even use their gaskets for pipe nipples.

Schluter states there product can be installed over drywall, regular drywall. Never green, purple or blue board. BUT The drywall manufacturers prohibit it so there would be zero warranty over drywall.

you have to thinset the barrier and greenboard has a wax substance coating it. The issue with greenboard is... why? The waterproofing membranes have been used successfully for over 20 years and they don’t leak, separate, or crack, so over plain ‘ol sheetrock is all you would need. I would not use any sheetrock in a wet space, but acknowledge that a membrane will perform adequately and not fail, if properly installed. When I build a shower, I use Kerdi-Board, not cement or Hardiboard. No sheetrock and, compared to cement or Hardi, a breeze to install with no dust.

Based on the pictures the OP attached, the installation of this membrane is incomplete and, I suspect, that when they applied it over the thinset, they failed to smooth it out. They might have had poor joints on the sheetrock, or not taped at all, and this is causing the issues with the tile. Assuming they applied the membrane everywhere it needs to be, they could have prevented the tile issue by floating the wall over a few days before going to tile. Alternate theory, the tile installer was incompetent and thought grout would hide all sins.

Just to note, the seems on the red material were in no way “taped”. They just used grout to cover them up. Which of course now I see as a very big problem.

In other words there is an incomplete waterproofing system over an unapproved substrate. It will be a mess in short order, you need to get this "tile installer" to gut and redo on his dime.

Now my question is...how can we salvage extremely expensive handmade tile in master bath? Or are they a complete loss?

Can we ask our builder to fire and use a different tile professional to fix the mess?

When you write your email, add a couple innocuous questions such as, “what color grout do you think we should use?“ and “when do you think the XYZ will be delivered?” so that your question the backing board materials isn’t the only one.

you can ask. make a list of all of the errors. is this a builder w/a large complex or is he just doing your home? you need to have whomever is in charge to come out so you can show him everything that's done incorrectly. The builder might not know his tile guys are boneheads.

of course the entire thing is a tear out and redo. He can't "fix' what's been done. They're going to try and tell you "oh we can add more waterproofing membrane to it", just to save money. Do NOT buy it. It can't be fixed since the entire substrate is incorrect.

You could absolutely hire a tile pro to 'supervise' his guys.

as for your homemade tiles, the sooner it comes down, the sooner you can try and scrape off the mortar.

(Don't forget, those walls will need to be plumbed before using those tiles again. )

But here's the thing,,he's responsible to replace everything on this dime. If you paid for those tiles and HE installed them incorrectly, he has to buy you a new batch.

He will probably try and tell you everything will be fine because he knows he's going to eat it.

If you want further advice or need further confirmation, head over to JohnBridge Tile Forum. Those guys over there are amazing tile gurus. takes only a minute to register.

https://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/register.php

go over to the Tile/Advice forum

https://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=1

and post these pictures, list the products used, and flat out ask them what they think. They're going to tell you the same thing we did.

If the builder is still dragging his feet, Call in a tile pro. John Bridge will have a list of pro's in your area they could recommend. You could pay him to come out and write up a review, should you need to go to court.

But try the JohnBridge avenue first. perhaps if your GC see's what they're telling you, he'll relent.

Either way, He's out a grip of money. Should he choose to walk away from the entire thing, you'll need legal counsel and the written recommendation from tile pros.

If you do end up hiring another tile team, see if you can find one that does old school 'mud' (lath and scratch coat mud instead of cement board) for your walls. those guys can get those walls perfectly plumb and flat and there's no waterproof membrane needed. (just a vapor barrier behind is fine) I had the 'mud' done in my shower

"how can we salvage extremely expensive handmade tile in master bath"

Probably cannot. The sooner the attempt is made however the greater the chances. Of course if he attached the tiles with the same half-assed manor he approached the balance of the shower they may pop off easily. But do not count on it.

Red paper used is “IB tool red membrane”

https://ibtools.ca/product/waterproofing-membrane-red/

After we requested specs on the showers we arrived at house today to find blue “paint” over the areas that were not covered in red paper. See images. Our builder says it is “Aquafina-2k/m”.

I just knew they were going to come in and do that. They're scrambling to placate you. Why would they suddenly do this? Because you complained??

That green board is not suitable for a shower, and that product should NOT, NEVER be applied onto green board. It's clearly states on it's technical data that it shouldn't be used in showers. EVER.

Aquadefense can go over gypsum board, but only in "approved areas".

Building code (IRC, etc) prohibits using paper-faced gypsum board products as tile backer boards in showers and tub surrounds, even if the paper facing and the gypsum core of the wallboard are moisture resistant.

I've posted a slew of links and info for you to educate yourself. up to you if you want to read all of them. You really should.

Notice,,it specifically says, "cementitious or masonry" and the last bullet,,,it's not a vapor barrier. so moisture will still penetrate that blue stuff into the green board. Is there a vapor barrier behind your green board? like tar paper and plastic sheeting over your studs? if not, moisture will still get through. You still have NO waterproofing. the green board lays on the wood studs. if the moisture gets through and wets the green board, and it's sitting on the wood studs that hold up your walls, what do you think will be the result in a few years?

AQUAFIN®-2K/M
Flexible Cementitious Protective & Waterproof Coating/Membrane

Technical Datasheet

Typical Applications:

• Above or below grade exterior applications.
• Horizontal, vertical, or overhead applications to concrete, cementitiousoverlays, masonry, brick and parging (render).
• Above grade block (CMU) and concrete substrates as a waterproofingbase coat under stucco/texture coats.
• Breathable (not a vapor barrier)

https://www.aquafin.net/us/en/files/aquafin-2km-86218875-c865-4f30-8113-2c7ef4285236/TDS_Aquafin-2KM%20100219.pdf

Look, right now these guys are scrambling for damage control and hoping you won't know the difference.

Go look up the specs for green board. Go find the part that says, "green board can be used in wet areas and can be coated w/waterproofing membranes." I already know what it says but I'll wait here for you to find it. (i'll save you the time. It doesn't say you can do it)

right here they talk about using the aqua stuff over green board. ALL of the pros there say nope. not approved. and mold will eventually become an issue. is that what you want?

https://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=121980

Most of the manufacturers of direct bonded waterproofing membranes will tell you, in a candid moment, that their products will work quite well over a gypsum backing board in a shower, they just can't publish that due to the current code restriction on the use of such gypsum products in wet areas.

Shower might last a long time if the work was done well, but it's still not an acceptable installation according to building code and tile industry standards. The junction of the gypsum board and the tub is the most likely point of early failure and the place where your installer probably didn't do what would be necessary if he wasn't even aware that the MR Board wasn't correct for the application. (Meaning, all those places that weren't taped, and where silicone caulking was not used)

And what about all the other goofs? nothing was taped and mortared. (not that it matters because this substrate is not suitable for a shower!

please read this link as to why:

https://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=126842

Is Greenboard Allowed for Wet Applications?

another dilemma w/greeboard

https://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=80491

I'll say it again. You're getting hosed and they're taking advantage of you. the shower was built incorrectly. a year or two down the road when it begins to crumble and mold overtakes the bathroom, do you think they will come back to fix it for you? You're paying to have a shower tiled correctly. why should you pay for something that is doomed to fail and possibly be hazardous to your health? Not to mention the other issues w/water seepage that could occur to the rest of house.

I've, We've, given you all the information. Up to you what you do with it.

Thank you so much for all your time and info Beth. I appreciate it. We are compiling everything.

I was adding more to my comment as you were writing, so make sure you reread. I posted a few links over at JohnBridge that deal exactly with your same materials. have a read over there.

Do tilers use green board and get away with it? Yes. Is it approved by industry standards? NO. And that's really what it comes down to. Getting away with something. The manufacturer clearly states green board is not be used in showers. But tilers still do it. The Aquadefense clearly states it's not a vapor barrier and is to be used over cement products. But your tilers ignored that info and still used it. They never taped seams, they used wrong products, and they're building you an inferior shower. They're hoping you won't looking up the technical data for everything. That's why I posted it for you. I'm tired of homeowners getting hosed by unscrupulous and cheap-ass builders and contractors.

Ask them to get out the TCNA handbook and show you exactly where it says green board is allowable for a shower/tub surround. Then ask them to show you where it says aqua defense can be applied to green board that's installed in a shower. Make them show it to you.

https://www.tcnatile.com/products-and-services/publications/218-english-publications/188-handbook.html

of course they won't be able to but they'll give you a song and dance of why it's still allowable. Uh, no. It's not. Codes exist for a reason. Imagine if they were building your house and fudged on the roof supports in the same manner. Would you allow that?

BTW, in that video of IB membrane you posted? did you watch it? the guy is rolling it on the shower. but the shower doesn't have the green board in it. it has a black looking cement board product (with seams that have been taped and mortared). I don't know if this stuff can be applied over green board. you'd have to call and ask them. (you're in Canada?)

(but standards and code still say that green board should not be used in shower, even with one of those membranes applied over it. )

And, it still doesn't excuse the part of the green board that was left uncovered and how they hastily applied this aqua stuff onto it. ( and I'm pretty sure that isn't doable)

Ask them how confident they are. Will they sign a warranty? maybe 10 yrs? a well tiled shower should last a lifetime. Will they give you warranty? I bet he says "No'.

No we are in Idaho! We called the IB tool co looking for tech data sheet. There isn’t one. As in, they do not have one. All they have are positive feedback from customers. I’m laughing to stop myself from crying. Tile guy bought the red paper off Amazon.

I saw it on Amazon! I've never heard of it. it's probably similar to Kerdi or Schluter.

I watched that video on that link though. shows greenboard outside the shower, but in the shower is something different that he's rolling on it.

like I said, do tilers use it in showers? yes. But I bet they would never warranty their work. It's cheap and fast to use and that's why they do it. But you can't ignore manufacturers data and limitations for their products. They put that there for a reason (because the product was failing when used in wet applications and they don't want to be sued!) Tilers never get sued because it's too much of hassle 2-5 years down the road to prove it was their fault.

btw, this is a shower w/a tub. (which will prob hold up a little better) did you say you had other bathrooms done w/just a shower?

I'm so sorry you're going through all of this.

John Bridge would be the best source for all of the technical data. Those guys are amazing and will answer you within a day. CX is one of the moderators there and is a wealth of info. all of those guys are old school and familiar w/everything on the market. If you post all the pics of the install, and the products used, and the finished look, they will give you advice on how to move forward.

I’ve signed up fo John Bridge! Just haven’t had time to post yet...

Question, is it worth passing the John Bridge threads (with all the other evidence) on to our contractor?

oh I think the more the merrier! But it's for you. If you had 20 diff pros telling you that's it's done incorrectly, and have cited manufacturers specs to those products also advising the proper usage of said products, wouldn't that make your case stronger? right now he's hoping that you don't know squat (because clearly he doesn't, or he's a cheap-a&^ hoping to get away w/it) so he won't have to pay to redo it.

But maybe if he has to eat it and pay all the money to have it redone, the next poor SOB won't have to deal with what you're dealing with.

I'd still make a quick post over at JB. post the good pics showing all the errors (the green board with w/the exposed sides is a good one) , post the names of products, and what they did today w/the Aqua stuff. (show the before/after on that one). then post a pic of the lousy tile work.

See what they come back with.

the one w/the tub combo,,,if he uses a silicone caulking in the tub/tile joint, and the vertical joints, you may be able to get away w/that one. Those are where you'll get the most water intrusion.

But if he did this type of substrate on any of the showers, it's going to get ugly down the road. water will wick up from the shower floor and up the walls.

do you know how the shower floors were done?

june, the info is mainly for her.

Lodge a formal written complaint with him that you have been made aware that his work is not up to industry standards. List the major deficiencies. The ones that are only corrected by a rebuild. Ask him what he proposes to do to rectify that.

How is she to know what's industry standards? she won't unless she does some homework. Hence the JB advice. This way she has the knowledge and confirmation of many in order to confront him. He could tell her " it's perfectly fine to do it like this", and she wouldn't know how to respond. But if she's been informed and knows what's allowable, she can hit him back with, "no it's not allowed, and here's why". How can she tell him what to rectify if she doesn't know? hence the other people on the 'internet' advising her. JohnBridge is a wealth of info from tile professionals. the more info she acquires, the better.

the GC may not care what the internet says, but once she starts listing technical specs that contradict what he's done to her shower, he's got to take notice. what he does with it, I don't know.

Of course she shouldn't pay him. That's a gimme.

I've already advised her to hire an independent tile professional to come in and give an inspection. Better that she has a plan B while she waits.

I have a tile pro coming out tomorrow. He has pics and specs already. And a call to a second guy. The contractor is BIG, we will need backup.

I just have to chime in ----- this all happened to us when we built a house. We ended up hiring someone else to rip out the work, buy new tile & materials, and redo the whole thing in 3 bathrooms on our dime! There ought to be protection for homeowners against this!

OP,

I‘m just a homeowner who this kind of bad thing happened to.

You’re getting good advice from the pros here and it’ll be good for you to go to the John Bridge forum.

There’s no protection for homeowners where I live. I live about 40 miles north of Houston. No permits, no inspections, nothing. It’s like you’re about to have brain surgery, but there’s no requirement that the surgeon got a medical degree, and then after it goes badly the doctor says “you’re too picky; I’ve never had a call-back.”

You’re not too picky. It’s your house and it’s your work site. At my DH’s work a contractor would never say “What? You want me to install that giant construction crane to industry standards, so people don’t die? Don’t worry; we’ve never had a call back.”