Thank you @3onthetree! We liked it too but the builder didn't. We were also a little nervous about going with the flat roof.

Edited to add: now that we've been messing with other versions, this mudroom is less ideal (and there's no extra bathroom) and really the office needs to be more out of the way so I can actually use the bedroom and bathroom while he's working.

Plus the builder said no, so...

I think what hit me as strange (along with some of the design elements) is that construction can start in October and be ready for occupancy in July. In Montana?

Yep, all the builders we talked to said something this size takes 6-9mo, on the longer end of the range if over the winter. As long as the foundation is poured by the end of October/beginning of November we'll be fine.

You need to have the foundation poured and enclosed before frost otherwise it will heave. My brother’s friend dealt with this. Have you asked how much extra you’re going to pay for winter construction? They will need to do more enclosures, temporary heat and it takes longer because labor hours are less efficient, meaning you have to pay for more hours.

As far as closet space, I feel like your not clicking with the fact that as kids get older, their clothes take up more room. My 12 year old only wears hoodies, size men’s small. Those things are bulky.

@User Yeah, it's probably the worst time in recent history to build a home, but it is what it is. These are post-covid/2021 numbers that I'm quoting. We know prices are crazy, but so is buying a house that already exists. That is, if there were even something available to buy.

The high end builders' costs are up about 30% from early 2020 but the mid-range guys we've talked to aren't impacted nearly as much - seems like their labor costs haven't skyrocketed the same way. Everyone is hopeful that by the end of the summer material availability will stabilize, even if costs don't come down.

The first thing I notice with your site plan is that the most valuable exposure in cold climates (South) is being taken up by a garage. I know you said that the garage should go here, but if there is anyway to change that, I would highly recommend it. Southern light is so valuable in cold climates. It is the only exposure that will be bright and cheerful all day. Windows on the north side will not let in any direct light, and the indirect light you get from them will be cool and very weak in the winter. Do you have some rooms in your current home that face South so you can see what I mean? Our friends built a massive 5000 square foot home last year, but all of the main rooms face north and they find it quite cool and dark inside. Do not ignore room orientations. It is the most fundamental part of how you experience a room!

East= morning light, good for bedrooms for people who like to wake up in a bright room and kitchens for people who do lots of cooking/ prep in the morning. Also good for offices if you want it cheerful, but watch for computer glare.

South= Lovely all day in the Northern Hemisphere, unless you live in a very hot climate and want it cool and dark.

West= Light in the afternoon and evening. Sunset views possible, but watch for afternoon heat from when the sun is low in the sky. Great place for a bathtub with a view if you want to watch the sunset! Some people like their dining rooms to face West so they have the light at the end of the day. Sunlight tends to be strong and hot, so blinds are helpful.

North= Very cool indirect light (white in colour and not yellow). The rooms will feel cooler than the other rooms.

Here is a brief summary of some of the suggestions from A Pattern Language by Christopher Alexander. It is one of the best selling books on architecture of all time, and it has helped us so much as we have decided what to prioritize in our homes.

http://www.sunlighthomes.com/a-pattern-language/

If you plan to build any bedrooms in the future basement area, be sure to include window wells for egress. By code, a bedroom in the basement will not be compliant without it. Plan ahead now

@GBel26 thanks! The basement floor at the north east corner will be at grade, there will be two large bedrooms and a bathroom with real windows and then a common area with at least one wall with real windows. "Real" being not subterranean. In the parts that are not daylight we'll do a big media/movie room and the rest will be storage. And mechanical.

@isabellagracepan Oh, trust me, I wish I could put that garage somewhere else! Without bulldozing our woods and putting it on the lower level there really is nowhere else for it.

I love thinking about the light these rooms will get and one of the reasons this planning process is so agonizing is because that garage takes up all the best sunshine. It would have been another good reason to do a two-story home on this lot.

I like northern and eastern light, especially for bedrooms. Our bedroom right now is in the northeast corner and it gets really lovely light. I also like actual sunshine and wanted somewhere to sit outside in the sun. The front porch and the back patio should both get good sun. I dislike western sun, especially in children's rooms and a dining area where it's blasting in the window right at dinnertime and all through bedtime/beginning of their night.

We'll have high ceilings and big windows in the living room and are hoping we can fit a couple clerestory windows along the line between the kitchen/dining and the living room. That would be our southern exposure. The kitchen window is large and that porch ceiling is high, so I'm hoping we'll get good light there, too. That was one of the reasons we moved the mudroom from the front to the side - otherwise the kitchen ends up with no direct natural light at all.

Do you think a large window on that front wall of the kitchen will be sufficient (plus the corner of windows in the dining area) to properly light the kitchen? Even if we move everything else in the whole house, I'd like to keep that section (the dining corner and kitchen orientation).

Thank you for the link to the book!

This was the draftsman's current working version, I probably should have just posted this one, but it's still bigger than we want it to be, so things will end up squeezed from this version. And there aren't enough dimensions on there but at least the doorways are on there more clearly.

Maybe a better question is if this is fundamentally the house we want (all of these puzzle pieces) and we need to shave 50-100 sqft off the house where should we take it out.

You have wasted space in the kitchen. A u-shaped kitchen with a peninsula is more efficient in your case. There is also wasted space in the master closet considering you cannot put any storage in front of the pathways in and out (there are 3). The staircase and playroom can be swapped and the staircase can be pushed forward. You can also sacrifice the "office" and place this in the basement when ready.

If your parents stay with you a lot, I would look for a way to move the powder room near the bedrooms and make it a full hall bath. It's better that your parents share a bathroom with occasional guests than 3-4 kids at a time. Make the playroom a proper bedroom and put a shared bathroom in between the two bedrooms. It's your choice if you still want all the kids in one room using the other as a playroom, but at least you'll have the option to use them both as bedrooms.

You have certain hang ups about how you live now that are preventing you from designing a home that will grow with you. If your home is well-designed, you will quickly forget your old routines and appreciate the thoughtful layout.

@Kristin Petro Interiors, Inc. Thank you for continuing to engage, I know I'm being difficult.

Do you think a U-shaped kitchen is appropriate for a household with so many people? I'm genuinely curious, not trying to be combative.

In what scenario do you think someone from the island will need to routinely access what is to the right of your range/cooktop? Islands work in many spaces because the access around them helps to move traffic through the kitchen. In your case, the only benefit I see is a shorter distance to the front door if you are at your sink. Is that worth the extra square footage/cost you need for an island? Peninsula example below.

Modern Remodel · More Info

@Kristin Petro Interiors, Inc. Okay, let's talk about that play room. In your opinion, is it only useful as another bedroom?

Again, I am genuinely curious. I was still seeing it as a music/play/study/dining/comfy sunshine and occasional guest room. If I move it down the hall and connect it to another bedroom with a bathroom it can't really be any of those things except a bedroom and a playroom/study for older kids. I'm not saying that's not the best idea for some/most/all families. I'm just asking if that's the consensus - that's it's not worth keeping as a closed door flexible living space.

And it seems like folks think I wrong that by the time my oldest wants his own room he'll be fine heading to a different floor.

Most 5 bedroom homes have 2-3 bedrooms upstairs and kids would head up there or spread out when they wanted their own room, is there a difference between up and down? Again, I expect he'll be in this shared room for 5 or so years (until he's 12) and then it will continue to house 2-3 little ones for another 5 years after that. There will be at least 2 bedrooms on the lower level for the boys to fight over or share.

I'm trying here but it's hard to find the value in comments that are based in assumptions that are in opposition to our family values. It feels similar to someone saying that I need a second car or a bigger vehicle because three carseats can't possibly fit across a backseat and don't I need an SUV for all their "stuff". Does that make sense? I appreciate your thoughtful and thorough responses and there have been a lot of great things to think about posted here.

Awesome, thank you. That was the layout for our last kitchen (attached) and it worked great, it just always felt like someone was in the way. We figured having the aisle on the side would alleviate that. You wouldn't *have* to walk through, you could go around.

Edited to add: also the end of the island is an excellent spot for a kid helper. We definitely missed that when we remodeled the island out of our old kitchen. Having the island allows for one-way traffic which should cut the number of bodies passing through the kitchen in half, right?

Do you really want a 2000 sq foot house? Maybe that is the more important question? You have three kids with potentially another planned AND you need to accommodate your parents often. With the square footage you want, you don't really have the luxury of occasional sitting spaces without greatly sacrificing the comfort of everyone else in the house (other than you and your husband who benefit from a large bedroom, a separate office and a private bath).

So, that is a great question. The things I want fit nicely in 3000 sqft. We don't need 3000 sqft now and it's possible we'll move before it's all useful to us. I'd rather live in a smaller footprint for now and have the space to grow if we need it.

I would happily give up space in our bedroom and bathroom for a more balanced home. Everytime I say that I'm told that it's a terrible idea. I tried a dozen times to shrink our bathroom and all I succeeded in doing was getting rid of the toilet room/water closet.

I wanted to give the main floor master to my parents and then all of the rest of us could share 3 bedrooms on a different level. I was told that that was also a terrible idea.

The office is probably non-negotiable, he works from home for the foreseeable future and it needs to be a small, private space that is just his, not double duty. We thought someone else would just use it as more closet as it's drawn here.

How do I find a good designer who can understand the way we live and the way we might live and actually design us a house to accomplish those things?

How do I find a good designer who can understand the way we live and the way we might live and actually design us a house to accomplish those things?

This is exactly what a good designer does. Start making phone calls to local interior designers. Tell them you are interested in space planning services. Ask them if they routinely collaborate with architects. Ask them if they often design for new construction homes. And be prepared to make the investment in their services. A good designer will ensure your home is well-planned, comfortable, efficient, healthy and sellable.

Alrighty, I'll try that again. When I did it the first time around it seemed like we were going to end up with way more house than we needed and I couldn't find anyone who was good at "regular family" homes. So many people here have a ton of money and are building second homes or vacation homes, not primary residences. So we stuck with the builder we liked and the architectural draftsman he recommended.

I agree with you that in US new housing has generally exploded, unrealistically IMHO, but that's just fine for people who want to spend their money that way. I don't. But I do think all this opinionated input is valuable to challenge you to examine & re-examine your plans.

You are paying, up front, for a basement on what appears to be an ideal bi-level site. So why not shrink the main floor and finish the lower level now? You could always settle for a modest level of finishing in the lower level, with the hope of updating when the tuition bills stop. :)

Many multi-floor plans include a "master" bedroom on the main floor as insurance against aging or broken legs, though often minimally "master" with a standard bath & a modest closet. As an empty nester myself, a 2nd den type room, sharing that bath, would appeal to us.

I think your husband is being short-changed in terms of # of hours/week of being used. I certainly understand his need to work thoroughly separate from pre-schoolers, and we all know that children of that age try hard to be right underneath their grownups' feet. So I would anticipate a two-stages for the allocation of office space. While they're pre-schoolers, Daddy gets the most isolated back corner in the lower level. But all that changes for school age children, when Dad gets "promoted" upstairs and any remaining kid stuff gets banished.

I remember fondly having a small one-person peninsula kitchen when my children were pre-schoolers. We had step stools for them on the other side of the peninsula for (constant) group cooking, but they were not allowed in the kitchen proper. In retrospect, anticipating elementary school, I should have designed it with a breakfast/beverage area opposite the open end.

I think your island is too big, but that seems to be the trend. I would prefer a smaller unobstructed island (or peninsula) and the clean-up area under the window.

We don't need 3000 sqft now and it's possible we'll move before it's all useful to us.

This got more amusing. Remember above when you said you looked at every single existing house in your area and literally not one would meet your needs?

Be aware that you are setting yourself up for the same fate as those homes. IYou are already talking about potentially selling it before you need all 3000 square feet, so this is not your forever home? f you try and sell this house, with your extremely particular, unusual family needs, you will have a very hard time selling this house.

Also - the SUV analogy: Reality is that some cars literally cannot put three carseats in a single row. Even if they do fit, are you going to be the mom who still makes her three kids aged 10-14 sit in high backed boosters in that cramped single row? Are you really going to make EIGHT people (including 1 or 2 full time WFH adults) live in 2000 (badly laid out) square feet with only 2 accessible bathrooms? I am not anti-small space. I lived for years in 1200 sf of cramped urban living with a family of 4 with no backyard. It was *fine* and i'd do it again if we had to. But you are building a house, from scratch, in Montana. Where land is plenty.

isabellagracepan I agree that A Pattern Language is a must-read. We did a renovation and it made such a difference for us. Sarah Susanka's in her The Not So Big House also has very good insight into how people actually live in their homes. Lots of good advice on spaces that are multi-function, either at the same time or over time.

I agree that it makes no sense to half-finish a house. You are paying for all those square feet - finishing it and using it all makes the most financial sense.

With your sloped lot, a modest-sized raised ranch, with all the space fully finished, is the most cost-effective approach. Because of your sloped lot you could have lots of light on the lower floor. Sounds like that's what your first architect suggested and not sure why you did not go for this option.

In terms of cost efficiency, I find it hard to believe that it will be cheaper to build your own custom home. I've never built one myself, but everyone I know who has built one has spent way more money than if they'd bought something that didn't exactly meet their needs, and worked around it. It seems to me that any 4 bedroom home could be made to work for you. You may be paying a pretty high premium for your "like to have" things like space for a 20 foot dining table for holidays.

Consider also that if you build something that doesn't appeal to the average buyer, you'll "pay" down the road when you take a substantial discount in selling it. This happened to a friend of my parents who was a carpenter who built an...unusual house.

I've lived in my home for 34 years. Had 2 children when we moved in, added another. When my middle child needed wheelchair access and a main floor bedroom we turned the laundry room into his bedroom. The occupants of the bedrooms have changed every few years. My mother lived here 3 nights a week for many years. We needed, then didn't need, a separate upstairs office. For example, in your case since your parents can still manage the stairs I might have them use the lower level bedroom, then when they're unable to manage stairs they can move upstairs and one of the boys can move downstairs. The office can be in whatever bedroom isn't in use.

Can you remind me the reason why you don't want a second floor? If you had a second floor you could have more rooms with light on two sides, and it sounds like your second story would have a really beautiful view. You could also put your parents in a main floor master suite, and then have three bedrooms/ 1 bathroom upstairs. It also saves money on roofing and foundation costs, that could be put towards beautiful windows/ woodwork/ or a lovely kitchen. If you have someone in the house who uses a wheelchair it makes perfect sense to be all on one level, but otherwise I think the benefits are really worth considering.

Another (space saving) idea would be to combine your mudroom and front entrance. This works really well for us at present, and the large space (ours is 11' wide, which is wonderful!) is lovely when all five of us are getting dressed in our complicated winter gear. Our previous home had a five foot wide entrance at our mudroom and it felt very crowded with children when we were coming and going.

I like a small master bedroom myself, but I realize that you and I are in the minority.

@samarnn and @partim

These are great conversations to have, and we're certainly examining and re-examining.

What I know we need are three bedrooms close together for the short term, one for us, one for the kids, and one that doubles as a guest room or bed for the grown-up who wants to get more sleep that night or sleep with a baby.

We need a nice main level room for my parents. We need a closed door play/living room and we need a dedicated, private office space. We need outdoor areas for play, dining, and sunny porch sitting.

I'd like a bathroom quickly accessible to the outside/garage and I'd like the living areas and my bedroom to be private (as in, I don't *have* to cover the windows). I'd like space for older children and future guests but we will not use it now. It will likely be 5 years before another bedroom is needed. I'd prefer to not have the kids tromping up the stairs and stomping around over me/the kitchen/living room.

And I don't think it's too much to ask that somewhere in the house there is a straight run of 26' so I can put a long table in it.

So. We can cover our basic, current needs on a 2150 sqft main floor and have all of our possible future needs and a massive amount of storage covered with the insurance of a basement. Or we can split the house up, put my parents/guests and the playroom on the main floor and then 3-4 bedrooms all together in the basement and end up with 3000 sqft of finished space from the get-go. The bedrooms would be fine, though certainly not with the lovely views and light of the main floor ones.

The architects we talked to wanted us to build up to a second (or third) story. This lot is perfect for a basement and I'd rather take advantage of that than build up.

I know it seems odd that a custom build is cheaper but the real estate market is insane and there's not any land left in town so itty bitty lots with 80 yo houses that have 7' basement ceilings sell for $350/sqft ...including the barely useful basement space 🤷.

@isabellagracepan Hahaha, it sure seems like that is the "right" thing to do, doesn't it? I don't want the house to look huge from the outside and I do want high-ish or vaulted ceilings in the main area. The main floor also has to be a minimum of 1500 sqft per the covenants. And I don't want my children who are apparently on the verge of being giants stomping around over my head.

Edited to add: other reasons we'd prefer a basement to a second level are the reduced heating/cooling loads and the possibility of renting it out separately or using it as long-term guest quarters like for one of our siblings.

Oh and one last thing - we probably wouldn't be able to do a basement if we did 1500 sqft and went up - the footprint wouldn't reach far enough down the slope unless we had a super long driveway.

Be aware, as has been previously mentioned, costs for building have skyrocketed recently right along with existing homes, so it may not be cheaper anymore.

@wiscokid Yeah, it's still pretty close to a wash. We bought a lot at the end of 2019 when we realized we might not find anything to buy and then with covid our town just exploded. When we went to start our construction loan process they estimated our (very modest 0.3 acre) parcel is worth $100k more than what we bought it for...just a year ago.

. A thought... you seem set on a 20' table to accommodate everyone.

I have done that in the past and found the people sitting on either end really can't have a conversation with people sitting in the middle. What I found worked better is when I set up 2 tables side by side. The conversations were more engaging and there were no people at far ends that could only converse with the couple of people near them. Even a group of 3 tables seem more intimate. JMO

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@lindacottonwood aw, thank you for sticking out this thread with me!

A place for multiple tables is great, too! I honestly didn't think that requirement would cause so much upset. I can put the tables down the middle of the house or through the living room the one time a year we need it. That's what we did in our old house and it was totally fine.

All I meant was that a floorplan with more intimate dimensions or the kitchen in the middle (like one we nixed already) won't work because then nowhere at all do you even have the option.

Plus, who am I kidding, my extended family is only ever going to visit in the summer and we can just eat outside.

Having just finished building 18 months ago, some of these things being discussed are fresh in my thoughts. We have a 3 bedroom 2 bath home. We use one of the bedrooms for an office and one for family/guests that come visit. To be honest we haven't had many guest use that bedroom. Yes we have co-vid going on so that may change but the room stays empty.

I can understand your ideas on the kids being in the same room. I would just advise you to put in place plans to finish the basement area at the same time you build. Life has a way of altering future plans when you least expect it.

@samarnn I'm thinking about something you said in an earlier comment about why not just finish it all and live in it all now since that really does make the most sense. It's possible that it just makes me a little bit sick to know I'm building a 3500+ sqft home to live in. It seems excessive and unnecessary and it makes me nauseous that I'm clearing this lot to put another new home on it. Thinking about it as 2100 sqft with a basement is more palatable even if it's exactly the same thing So, you're right, maybe all this opinionated input has been a helpful catalyst for some introspection. Maybe I need a therapist rather than an architect. Or both.

We tried three times to buy something and either got outbid or just outpaced all three times. At this point, by the time we have to add on or remodel one of the available existing homes (most everything in town has 3 bedrooms and if they have 4 they're split 2 and 2) - we're better off building. So we pivoted and are building sooner rather than later so we have somewhere to live when this house we're renting almost definitely gets sold and we lose it. I'm happy to consider future needs but I don't want to overlook our current needs. Life is unpredictable and while we intend to be here for 10+ years, who knows what will actually happen.

Why not build a fully finished home that is the size you want to build, instead of a 3500 sf half finished home. That's the part that doesn't make much sense to me.

One way to avoid the garage hogging the south sun, is to put the garage in the basement. You have said you don't want to do that but haven't said why. Particularly for a lot that slopes to the back, it's a good use of the windowless part of the basement. Raised ranch with basement garage to the front and walkout to the back.

Main floor would be the living areas mostly facing forward to the sun (kitchen, eating area, living room). Back facing 3 bedrooms and bathrooms. For now, one of the bedrooms would be the playroom, one the office, one for your parents.

Downstairs, front facing (windowless) garage and storage. Rear facing walkout master suite and fifth bedroom which would have the 3 boys for now and then they can transition to moving upstairs when they wish.

I think you're too much "in the weeds" on details and room sizes and kitchen islands, when I don't think you have a good "bubble plan" yet for where you are going to live in the house.

Nothing is worse than being house poor. You know what your budget can handle. There were a lot of things we really wanted but were not a need for us. We just retired and had a fixed amount to spend on the build and after that monthly. While our plan isn't perfect it is pretty close. The things we forgot or could not afford seem trivial now. We are so happy we could implement our special needs and choose what we wanted. Is it for everyone ? No. But it is ours and we love it.

One of the secrets is to have your plan and your budget and DO NOT change it.

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@partim That's still an option. Means schlepping groceries up and down and bulldozing a ton of the woods and building a sizable retaining wall in order the bring the driveway in at a reasonable slope. As a house design it is definitely a very good use of space and makes by far the smallest footprint on the lot, which is great.

@partim we looked seriously all year and missed out on the couple that we thought we could make work and then the prices just kept going up and up. This is a small town with a huge recent influx of people. There is no inventory. We could definitely find something totally reasonable and fine if we moved out of town but we're already in the middle of nowhere and we wanted to stay close to town/school/neighbors.

"The kids always end up playing close to wherever everyone is, so I'd rather it behind doors if need be. We've tried play areas upstairs and they've never worked well for us. Plus that room is going to get good light and it's lovely to sit in there in the sunshine while they play. And I *love* banquette seating and it will be mostly for kids."

I guess I'm not understanding something crucial here. I thought you said you hadn't built yet? How do you know "it's lovely to sit [in the playroom]"? You might be able to choose materials and layout that would be conducive to that room being well lit, but you haven't sat there, and there aren't any windows indicated on the plan that I can see.

And that room is facing WEST? It will be crazy hot.

Large windows, BTW, are a substantial cost: they might nuke your budget.

This last comment is bang on. It’s important to build a home you can grow in. Even when we moved into this house and our kids were (6,9,10) they still stayed in great room often. Brought lego upstairs and coloured at the island. But now 2.5 years later they pretty much always do stuff downstairs. It’s nice to not have clutter everywhere. I’m so glad the play space is away from our space. I also notice that their play has shifted dramatically and is less stuff and chaos. Just good for thought really

Why would a plan with a smaller footprint require you to bulldoze a ton of the woods? (Not arguing with you, just trying to understand more about your lot.)

I hear you about the retaining wall required, but with a raised bungalow, the higher you raise it, the less retaining wall is required. I'm guessing that a retaining wall is still considerably less expensive than building a larger house.

No worries - if the garage is at basement level, we'll have to being the driveway in from the other side of the lot, where the road is lower so the driveway is flatter. That part of the lot is basically a hill with a creek at the bottom so one side of the driveway would need a retaining wall to hold it up and the other side would need a retaining wall to keep the earth back. While that would make for a lovely sight-line to the mountains, it would also clear a ton of the more special part of the land. They like to stay under 4% grade for driveways and even that raises eyebrows. I'll see if I can post the topo.

You're going to look at it and tell me to just build a two-story square house up in the right/bottom corner, but here you go:

Not sure if this helps but you can kind of see it in 3D here.

"I thought you said you hadn't built yet? How do you know "it's lovely to sit [in the playroom]"? You might be able to choose materials and layout that would be conducive to that room being well lit, but you haven't sat there, and there aren't any windows indicated on the plan that I can see."

I've been following along with this post trying to see all sides, but some of these comments just get absurd. Of course it hasn't been built yet, that's the whole point of the post. None of the windows are indicated on the drawing yet in any rooms, but of course there will be windows in the rooms. She has already indicated that this room faces a sunnier side of the house. Since the OP wasn't just plopped down on the planet yesterday, I'm sure she has sat in rooms that have windows with the sun coming in them and enjoyed it. It's not really something she's guessing at, sitting by sunny windows is lovely.

Do your kids enjoy playing outside? What are your habits when it’s nice? We built a house significantly smaller, footprint wise, than we were allowed so we could have a large yard for kids and dog to play on. Think about outside as much as inside too. Especially with three kids

@A S yep, we definitely need outdoor space for playing and eating. We spend a lot of time outside when it's nice. I'm assuming they'll primarily play down by the creek but we'll have a nice flat sunny spot up behind the covered patio behind the garage that will be great for the littler ones. That was another reason we were trying to build out to the hill so we could protect that yard area.

I think I've worked through my issues enough to just build the big house and be done with it. My husband wants to be able to bring friends and family to us and have plenty of space for them from the start. I asked him to find a friend to live there over the winter or I'd bring in an exchange student or get my brother to come live with us or even just rent it out. I can't handle all the planned/finished and completely unused space that's just going to sit there for years until the kids are big enough to be down there. I didn't want to move to the big fancy house my parents bought when I was 16 and this is basically just an extension of that identity crisis.

So, as completely ridiculous as this thread was, thank you all. When we have a few more floorplan options I'll see if I can find my big girl panties and come back for input. Or not :).

4 Br, 3007 sqft, garage under; may not be your style, but here’s what you can get with a 1st fl MBR (change to guest suite for the grandparents). Open space for playing (or turn the LR into a play space with doors). Use the breakfast/family room combo for your 20’ table for family gatherings.

“Doroughty” plan https://southernclassicdesign.com/home_plans/floorplan_detail/?id=12

See this if you think the grandparents will move in with you at some point https://www.queenbeeofhoneydos.com/sweetest-mother-in-law-suites/

Hi all! I went ahead and started a new thread with an updated floorplan. I'm hoping it's a little more clear this time around. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts if you get a chance to comment!

https://www.houzz.com/discussions/6077987/custom-home-floorplan-take-2

@GBel26 Thanks for coming back to this! I'll take a look at those plans.

You should probably hire a designer. From what I see there are barely any windows in this house, not even enough to meet egress code, and the windows that exist appear to have been placed without regard to the sun's path. Maybe there's a reason for it, but I find it strange to have an office that requires walking though the master closet. You may also want to reconsider your entryways and floorplan jogs... it can be very annoying to move furniture, Xmas trees, etc. in and out of the entryways and makes it more likely people/dogs/children will run into things, damaging and dirtying walls. Hiring a designer can pay for itself since they can streamline the floorplan in a cost effective way. Functional design with good natural light is more important than the things (appliances, etc.) you put in your home.