Forgot to ask. If I was to make a few terrariums with succulents in them as gifts (that implies no draining holes!), what would you suggest I use for the substrate? Still 50% grit and 50% perlite?
Thanks so mush for all your input and your knowledge.

@nathaubs No, Howard is another member here on the forums who lives in the USA. I have enjoyed visiting him many times, but not lately due to the pandemic. You can try contacting General Pumice Products here and see if they ship to you: https://www.generalpumice.com/ . They have really good quality pumice. In the past, I inquired but they were not shipping to Canada then.

I said to skip bark because it's quite expensive and hard to get in the right size in Canada. You can try sourcing it, but I imagine you will spend a lot of time and it can be fairly expensive (relative to other options and speaking from personal experience). The idea of the bark was cheap filler, so if it's not cheap and very hard to get it doesn't make much sense.

You can try searching hydroponics stores in Quebec and see what is available. Usually stores are cheaper for these things but you may get lucky online? Who knows!

Clarification on 50/50 cactus/succulent blend: I mean that I buy a cactus/succulent soil at a big box store or nursery, and then blend it with something to aerate the soil -- usually pumice, sometimes sifted and washed perlite, sifted to get the tiny particles out and washed to get the dust out.

The soil part remains a problem for me. I used to use C/S soil from Fafard, but they actually stopped making it. Then I bought Black Gold from my local garden center and loved it, but over the last year I have been very dissatisfied with the quality of BG. It has gone downhill in my opinion. I currently used Hoffman's C/S soil from Amazon....expensive and more peaty than I like, but even in Florida -- my choices are limited. Sometimes I actually buy Miracle Grow C/S/Palm soil if I'm going to mix it with pumice and chick grit -- and if the particular plants I'm repotting aren't particular about their soil (such as Sansevierias).

By the way, I can't suggest terrariums for succulents. Succulents need a mix that drains. Personally, I never plant IN anything that doesn't have good drainage holes. PARTICULARLY if you do plant in an inorganic mix -- like Turface, chicken grit, handful of pumice etc -- that is going to drain so fast you won't believe it. Drainage is one of my top concerns, always.

@ewwmayo Thanks for all the clarification. I will try to contact General Pumice Products to ask them for sure while keep looking in the country and locally. And it makes sense for the bark! Thanks again.

@robinswfl I think we still have some C/S soil from Fafard here. I might try to get some and mix it with perlite or pumice (when I found them). So I am guessing cacti probably aren't good for terrariums also? If not, what do people use terrariums for??? ;) Thanks again for all your help.

I do not 'go crazy' about anything that has to be shipped from US (cost!) or is difficult to find. And try to buy in bulk to save some $. I have found perlite in bulk in garden center, but that was several yrs ago when I bought several huge bags. Everything seems to be much more expensive today, some times double of what I used to pay. Chicken grit has gone up from abt. $18 to abt. $22 for 50lb bag, so not too much. I buy it in farm supply store. I do not get pumice. I still have 50lb bag of turface left (I bought few approx. 4yrs ago). I do not know what you can get in Quebec.

I wouldn't make any terrariums with succulents, even if there are hundreds - more likely thousands - of 'how to' videos out there...Many terrariums are really nice looking, but there are plants that like terrarium conditions, so why not use them? Succulents are arid plants. I grow them for their beauty, not as decor item for the house to be disposed off when in poor shape or when the trend changes. I would make a dish garden for a gift, using a nice open bowl - similar as in the photo; or much nicer one - but not a glass, enclosed or recurved type of container without drainage. BUT that is JMO and others may not agree...

And I would make sure I put plants with very similar needs in it. If you want it for only short period of time it may not matter.

@rina I found a farm supply store close to me. I will give them a call to see if they have chicken grit. And I JUST found a hydroponics store online that is literally 5 minutes away from my house. They list perlite in their list of available substrate they sell (112L for $33).So I will also give them a call or stop by to see if they have any. Fingers crossed!!! Ok so no succulents or cacti in terrarium... got it! I’ll find some cute plants for that. And any open bowls with a drainage hole is good for a dish garden with succulents/cacti as long as they have similar needs. Do you have to put a tray under dish gardens? Or do you make sure to water them in the sink and let them drain?) You might not use trays since you leave yours outside when it’s warm enough. (At what temperature do you start to leave them out? You must look forward to the end of the winter lol) I don’t want to buy succulents for decorations either. I have been moving around all my life without being about to buy plants. But now I am where I am for a while so I’m going plant crazy!!! Makes me sooo happy!!! Thanks again for all this knowledge. Please know that I am taking very precious notes here!

nathaubs

Plant collecting became very popular since the covid grounded us... regardless the reason, it is a great hobby.

Hydroponic store is a god source, and the price is in line with what is perlite sold for around here. I buy those 112l bags too. Best size for chicken grit to be used as a substrate seems to be #2 (grower). Occasionally I buy bigger size to be used as a top dressing, but that is not a must.

I keep most of the pots on large trays, few on saucers. Whatever works for containers - they need to catch extra moisture. Make sure they don't sit in excess water. Cooler it is, less water they receive. But inside the house/apartment it is warmer, so they are not fully dormant. And if outside, I do not need any saucers/trays. I always make sure there is a drainage hole(s) in any container I use, and I drill them if not there already. You are right - can't wait for the warmer weather. I start taking them outside when temps stay reliably at about 5 - 8 C or so overnight; I try to do it before it is too warm. That way I don't have to worry to acclimatize them to direct sunlight. And I bring them inside when temps drop to the same levels, that is usually late November. Whatever I wrote here is just the way I do it, and some may disagree - that is OK...whatever works is OK :)

@rina They were out of Perlite! :( But they will get more in stock soon. Can’t wait! Next is the farm supply store.
When you say the containers need to catch extra moisture you mean like the material of the container. Like let say clay or ceramic pots? Which one is the best at doing that?
I might also try to grow my succulents outside! It seems easier and more natural that way. We will see. And I do agree whatever works for you might now work for someone else and that is totally OK... it applies to everything fin life not just plants! :))

I meant saucers or trays need to catch extra water indoors...sorry I didn't make it clear.

Ok got it! Thanks.

Went to the farm supply store today. Went in the buy the chicken grit then went in the back so a guy could charge it in my truck, so I didn't have to get out. But when I came home I saw it said on the bag: "limestone 25mm" (there is an other word before "limestone" but I can't remember and it is still in the truck, so I can't look). Did I get the right thing?

Dolomitic limestone? Looks like probably not the right thing. Limestone increases the pH which is not so good. What you want is granite, so hopefully they have some of that instead!

@ewwmayo I will look at the bag again tomorrow. When I called them they said they had some chicken grit... on the receipt that’s what it says also. Maybe the guy in the back gave me the wrong thing. I’ll look into that for sure. Thanks for your help.

There are a couple different types of chicken grit. Some limestone or crushed oyster shells. You want the granite kind.

Ok so if I didn’t specify I was looking for granite that might be the only chicken grit they have? That is my fault then. What can I use limestone grit for??? Anything in the garden? I don’t have chicken... ;)

Maybe they will just let you exchange it? Not sure if you opened the bag already.

Nope not opened yet! Hopefully they might...

If you can't exchange it, you can always 'dump' it in the garden...spread it over the garden bed - it will not be too much if spread over the larger area, comparing to small pots. Or check for limestone growing succulents, maybe you have some..

nathaubs you got regular limestone that is used either to "mulch around" shrubs/trees or as a base to build driveways and patios. Plus 25mm is way too big size. In US it is usually called gravel. Although gravel is a catch-all for any kind of crushed stone. It is alkaline in nature but it would take a long long time to make your soil alkaline.

I didn't even notice 25mm size. That is way to big even for the chicken grit, isn't it?

Nathaubs -- I don't know if you can get this in Canada or not. If you CAN, I highly recommend it -- and I have tried about 5-6 varieties of chicken grit. It's actually worth traveling a little way for. I used to drive 50 miles (round trip) to get it -- that's how much I like it.

It is Manna Pro Poultry Grit, comes in a 25 pound bag and says Insoluble Crushed Granite on the front of the bag. In the states, we have Tractor Supply stores that self a lot of products and supplies for farms -- and this is one. You can at least see what the bag looks like on Amazon.

If you can find it, this product is excellent. I used to sift (for size) and then wash my chick grit. But with Manna Pro, I don't sift any of it anymore. The size is perfect -- at least for the succulents I plant which are in 4", 6" and 8" pots. I just wash it in an old kitchen strainer, out over the lawn, to let the dust fall out. Then I let it dry and I keep several containers of it at all times.

There is no salt in it, and the color is dark tannish and brownish. I have actually planted succulents in just Turface and Manna Pro (50/50) and they have done pretty well, too! Hope you can locate some of this. It will make your life easier. It blends with Turface, with pumice and with all kinds of C/S soils.

Robin - Our Tractor Supply stores here don't carry that (at least all the ones I checked with). It's strange but a quirk of their distribution/local supply chains. It does look quite nice.

Here in Ontario at least, it is mostly white granite and limestone, which has to do with the types of quarries around the Canadian shield.

I bough this in Canada (besides other brands):

Gran-iGrit is what I can get here easily. Feed stores carry them. If you know someone who raises chicken, turkey you can ask them what they use. Tractor Supply carries Manna Pro in smaller bags - they are bit larger than grit but works. Another thing you can look for is haydite. It is not exactly grit but close enough. It does hold a bit of water but much less than turface. Another avenue is to look for bonsai soil supplier or contact a local bonsai club if you can find one. They may be able to help you.

This is what they gave me. Obviously not what I asked. But not 25mm like I first stated... so pretty small but still the wrong item.
I have seen this bag online Rina, but not around here yet! I found a feed store not too far I will try them next. Thank you every one for your help.

That is garden lime used to raise the Ph of acidic soil. There are two kinds: One which has very little Mg compared to Ca (that is what you got) and the other is dolomitic limestone that has a lot higher Mg. Both are not suitable for your purpose. Usually these are quite cheap in US like $4-5 for a bag like yours and usually people buy that to add their lawn in Spring.

Went back to exchange the limestone today... but this time they gave me “wild bird seeds” :0 I give up in the store... I believe they have no idea what I’m looking for. Call my aunt who is raising chickens... she gave hers oyster shells... so not so much help there either. Call a feed store and they have this. What do you think???
Manna Pro on Amazon.ca is over $60 plus $40 shipping!!! That’s insane!!!

That Grit+Redstone looks very promising. Can you judge the size approximately? Or can you take a pic with scale or something that gives a sense of scale. A coin, a pencil? I have not across it myself so it is not easy to figure out just from the brand/label.

A $100 bag of grit would be ridiculous.

The one you show is this one but has crushed shells in it: https://www.versele-laga.com/en/be/producten/colombine-grit-redstone?!animal-category=show-pigeons

Have you tried multiple feed stores of different companies? This is the white granite grit they carry locally here: https://sharpefarmsupplies.com/animal-nutrition/animal-nutrition-backyard-poultry/poultry-grit/ I never saw these tiny plastic bags, just 10kg woven sacks or something like that.

No, that's poultry / pigeon scratch (which contains food) - you do not want that. You want poultry grit, and only grit, containing no food. #2 is a delightful size, though 1, 3, 4, 5, 6 have their uses too.

100 pounds of grit is remarkable forethought.

ETA - you can get something like what Rina posted a picture of at a building supply store, generally. Take a pic of it and ask around.

My bad: The columbine Grit+Redstone product is indeed not suitable.

Ok here is the latest bag I got. Did they have me the right thing this time. There isn’t anywhere on the bag saying the content of it. Don’t even know what it is to be honest.

I also contacted NC Granite to see if they could help me find Gran-I-Grit here in Québec. The lady gave me the phone number of their distributor here in Canada. So I contacted them (Jeff Nutrition) and the man was really nice and helpful. He told me they are having a very very hard time having NC Granite form the company. So they looked around and found a very similar product to replace it. He will send by email a comparaison of the 2 products to me and see if they sell it somewhere close to me. So if the picture from my last post isn’t what I need than I have an other potential solution. ;)

That looks like horticultural/bonsai sand and from the size distribution it looks like a good substitute for grit. I am assuming they are very hard particles from the look of it. You will have to wash/sift those very fine stuff out of it though. For that you will need a insect screen. You can make one yourself using some wood and screen used for screen doors. Metal screen will be more robust and last longer. Or can buy a pre-made one. Look for bonsai screens on Amazon. They usually come with several interchangeable screens of different sizes. You need at least the finest one which is around 1/16 inch. But if you are going to dabble with soil mixes then better have a get set of screens too.

What would you say is the largest size? 6-7 mm?

They are a bit smooth. Makes them slide over each other. But if your other component is say turface then they will lock into each other.

I would actually love to get my hands on that sand. For bonsai soil that can be a useful candidate. In japan they use similar sands as soil component or as a top dressing. Depending on the source it can have different colors and texture. They are very expensive.

Yes they are hard particles. The bigger ones I measured are about 8mm. I looked on Amazon.ca for screens but can’t seem to find the 1/16” size. I might try to mix it with perlite to start cacti from seeds... and maybe switch my succulents and aloe to that mix too. Not sure yet!
Thanks for your help again. So much great info here I can always come back to.

For cactus and succulents you can sift it to 1/8 and will work better but you will have more wastage. Look for a collander perhaps with around 2mm holes. Does not have to be exact, just in the ball park. Many years back, the first time I was doing this I used a bamboo skewer as a reference and tried several collanders in a store. I did find one that was good enough and used for many years.

Thank you! I will do that next time I go to a store. I bought a other brand of granite. I will check it out this weekend. So 1/8” would be best for my needs? If I go bigger it won’t work at all?

I am not sure what you are asking. You need a sieve to sift out the fine stuff. Sieves are not really exact either nor easy to find in many sizes. But to keep it simple: anything below 1/16 should be discarded. Stuff between 1/16 and 1/8 is usable but increases water retention. For tropicals it will be fine but still it is best to keep it as a smaller fraction. Between 1/8 and 1/4 is perfect size range. You can use particles a bit over 1/4 for reducing water retention but best to keep that fraction smaller. cactus and succulents may benefit having a bit of the larger particles.

Gran-i-grit and manna-pro just need a wash over a 1/16 screen just to take out the dust which will be inevitably there. But the rest is perfectly usable.

I wasn’t clear... I’m sending a photo! This is the first bag I got when I returned the limestone. This batch is clean. Do you think some pieces are too big for succulent mix?

Size looks OK to me...here is the size I use most often (approx. 3-6mm). I have used bigger size, but like this most:

Agreed with Rina, the sizes look good to me. Can you tell me what is the label/brand of the stuff? I would like to get my hands on that product. I like the colors.

The colour is really nice!

I agree with Rina too. That pretty much looks like the size of the poultry grit Manna Pro that I buy. I used to sift it for size but....hardly needed to. Now I just wash it, let it dry and use it. I wouldn't worry if you have some bigger pieces because, you have enough smaller ones to do the real work for you. Good luck with it!

Awesome!!! So excited!!! I only washed it and that was the result. So now 50/50 with perlite for the first test? Thanks again to everyone... this was an amazing first experience in this forum. I will be back! ;)
This is the brand:

Great. And thanks for posting the label. Now only if I can also find the same thing I will be happier. It will great in a bonsai mix too. If nothing else it will be great to use it for top dressing the pots. Enjoy your beginning of the journey.

Hello you all!!! I know I probably should have started a new thread, but since I had so many good answers here I thought I’ll just add to it. And it is related also... So I spent so many hours looking for the right grit that I totally forgot to ask questions for after! So here they are:
1- Would starting Cactus and succulents seeds with that mix (50/50 Perlite and Chicken Grit) work? If so how often do I water? Should I leave by a windowsill with direct sunlight or no direct sun? Or would heat mats be preferred? And then once germinate? Grow light or sun???
2- Same questions but with succulents cuttings? After leaving my cutting out for a few days, would putting them in the mix work to start rooting? If yes, so I water and how often? Under grown lights or direct sun, indirect sun? How long (in general) do they take to root?
I have a few Gasteria pups that I just separated from the mom in that mix. They are on a north-east facing windowsill. But don’t know if I need to water them or not!
Your help as always would be SOOO helpful and appreciated!
Nathalie

My own thoughts:

1. Yes, perlite and grit works well for seeds. It is better they are kept moist. Depends on your window sills but too much light is an easy way to kill seedlings. I find grow lights more consistent and easier to work with.

2. Usually yes, stick the ends of the cuttings lightly into the soil mix. Make sure they have enough of the cells from the stem to propagate. Other leaves grow roots from the sides so they would just be laid flat. Really it is best to check what you are propagating because there are some differences. They don't need too much light or else the leaves will dry out before they can root.

3. Pups need water too!

Thank you!!! I will just test it out... if they die I will try again ;)

Hello everyone, I'm from Canada. Five years ago I kept 75+ 5-gallon pots of exotic tropical plants (clove, kaffir, bird of paradise, cinnamon, nutmeg, panda, curry leaf, neem, etc.) using Al's gritty mix. I can tell you that the mix worked wonder. The hardest thing to find was Turface but I did and bought 20 bags from Halifax Seed Store.

Now, nearing retirement, I'm looking forward to reviving my hobby and getting acquaintance with Al's mix again.