This has got to be a joke, or a huge waste of research money.

It's from a vet school in Ontario, a PhD candidate. There may be no funding external to the school at all.

Academia is academia. If you spent time at a research university, you were hopefully taught by smart people who were mostly trained to think, investigate and scratch their heads. Instructors at small colleges, different story. There's not nearly enough thinking happening these days in the US, any small pocket of doing tjat (even though this is in Canada) is welcome news to me.

Being a cat owner I know there are several reactions that my cats do and have done. Any where between rolling over for their belly to be rubbed to all of a sudden attacking. Would be interesting to see if it was certain types of cats, areas of the body, food that was fed or even what season of the year were certain things more likely to happen. It could save some cats from being destroyed if it was recognized which ones are more aggressive or perhaps even a little insane earlier in life.

Veterinary behavior (kind of akin to a combo of psychology and psychiatry) is one of the veterinary specialties. A small one but an important one too. Anecdotal reports "from the field" are important to advance understanding.

I am eternally astonished that people do not read their cats. You pet your cat. It rolls over exposing its stomach. The cat "owner" reads this as an invitation to rub stomach. The cat nails owner. Ouch. Well how many times does this have to happen before the cat "owner" gets that rolling over is not necessarily an invitation to rub stomach. I do not know what the cat actually wants but I know it is not a rub even if the cat tolerates that. Research could help that.

I have two that love to have their stomach rubbed and would have me do it for hours. Another does not like any part of it's body touched unless it touches me although we are working on that. Each is different.

Rolling over to expose the belly is generally regarded as a “submission” gesture.

I'm sure there are plenty of studies which show that petting cats is beneficial to their owners!

I've had 17 cats over the decades and currently have three and no two cats are alike. A current marmalade one is always rolling over exposing her belly. She likes to be petted and then bites. I never had a cat that bites but it's a very gentle bite. The Maine Coon doesn't like petted much but loves to head bump.

Belly rubs: My last cats nickname, "Belly-Rub-Boy". He even liked his armpits rubbed! He would have these dreamy-eyes and if you tried to leave...follow and plop at your feet ...again...and again. My short haired cat does not like belly rubs; seems to be a long haired cat "thang". He's/short haired one, also a biter, but only bites if he's keyed up, playing rough and hard.....then he loses his mind. He's just soooooooooooooo happy someone will play with him. (they had 121 cats in that rescue. I doubt they had time to play)

Predatory animals like house cats and dogs (wolves is what they really are) don't see biting to make a point like we do with our mostly naked skins.

Speaking of cat behavior neighbor across the street here has a trampoline out in the yard. Cats like to get on it and jump around. I've also seen that there is a You Tube up of sheep using a trampoline.

What a hoot in either case!

Dogs are wolves genetically. Unless a body goes with the idea that they are hybrids. As for the "Huh?" I don't feel like bothering - the "lol" was plenty rude by itself.

As it always is.

Oh, well. When people have not been around animals they lack the understanding that most of many types will nip either as a gesture of affection, control, wanting attention, and sometimes dominance.

Yes: to the animal it is merely a nip because for one thing - unlike us - they are covered in protective hair and for another they are different in other ways from us also.

You and your buddy aren't very nice when someone simply identifies an erroneous post.

Except: I didn't make one.

And: What is nice about "lol" and "Huh?" ? Followed by your next comment?

Also: What "buddy"?

"When people have not been around animals they lack the understanding that most of many types will nip either as a gesture of affection, control, wanting attention, and sometimes dominance."

Properly trained dogs never "nip" or bite.

With our first grandchild at one year of age, our daughter in law was skeptical about my suggestion to let the little tyke feed our large dog a piece of food. I assured her it would be fine. I put the dog in sit, I helped put the little one's hand out, placed a piece of dry food on it, then told the dog Okay (the release command). The dog approached the little one slowly, turned her head sideways, and gently licked the piece of food into her mouth. The little one loved it and it became her favorite thing to do when visiting us. That's a combination of dog training to be gentle with humans and to not be defensive or protective about food.

Even well trained dogs may nip other dogs and their pups. They may never nip people but have you ever watched dogs at a dog park? Lots of nipping and teeth display happening.

I've been fortunate to have 4 large but ultimately well trained dogs in my home as an adult. One at a time. A lot of time and work but worth it.

Not one of them ever nipped or growled at a human or another dog. Not one. Not ever.

Has your experience with dogs in your home that you trained been different?

Did I even mention a dog at any home? You do understand what a dog park is? Dog play with each other including rough and tumble.

Sort of a random post, but I just came across a great quote and wanted to share:

“There are two means of refuge from the misery of life — music and cats.”

― Albert Schweitzer

Especially when the cats have access to a trampoline

"Did I even mention a dog at any home?"

No. I suspected you really didn't have personal knowledge of nor experience with dogs because of what you said and you've confirmed that. You don't learn about dogs by watching at a dog park.

Oh, Elmer. For God's sake,

You don't learn about dogs by watching at a dog park.

Of course you do. A dog park is a rich source of information, about dogs and dog owners too. I'm sure if one were to spend enough time and catalogue one's impressions carefully, the same sorts of impressions might be repeated elsewhere with other cataloguers, to show that dogs (and owners) many times will show predictable behaviors in response to certain situations.

Learning takes place any time, anywhere, one does not need to be in a formal learning situation. My favorite example is Alexander Fleming, and his learning and observation that bacterial colonies near 'mould juice' were dying. He had discovered antibiotics by watching and learning from the Petri dishes.

One of these does not go with the other:

Anecdotal reports "from the field" are important to advance understanding.

You don't learn about dogs by watching at a dog park.

Sorry Elmer but I have had dogs all my life until 2005 when we discussed having another one but we knew my husband's condition would become worse and could not provide the attention that one would need. Having lived where I did until moving to this house your large dog would have not been protection especially if it was trained to never bite. Which makes me wonder what you expected the dog or anyone that would break in to do. Large dogs are often stolen to be used in dog fighting. Just a hint more thieves will pass up houses with a small yappy dog than they will with a large one according to the police. There are two reasons. The noise and small yappy dogs are very protective and will bite.

Oy vey!

A simple informational post about a research project on a happy task...and STILL a petty battle erupts. Some of you would argue about the benefits of world peace. Honestly!

Step away from the phone and go shower your furry kids with playtime and love. I'm headed for that very activity now.

Okay, I'll leave y'all with a laugh first. An oldie but goodie. Dear Kitten. ;-)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=G4Sn91t1V4g

Nothing to say about cats because I'm too allergic to live with one, but about dogs playing. I have pictures of these two playing that I'll never post because they'd shock too many people! Bared teeth, grasping each other by (the scruff of) the neck, biting at hind legs. Run, chase! Wrestle! Jaw-wrestle! If all you saw was a snapshot, you'd think they were in a death match. But being there, it's easy to see that it's play between two healthy young dogs well matched in age, weight, and temperament. I'm not saying every dog enjoys that kind of play, because dogs have individual personalities. But many do, and dogs who don't get a chance to play *hard* with one of their own, is kind of sad.

I asked the other dog's owner if cats are the same. She said kittens play very actively together like that, but adult cats seem to grow out of the need to play rough and tumble with other cats. I wonder if that is a common observation.

Cute dogs nickel!

I’ve never owned a cat either, so I can’t comment on their behaviour.

I’ve had several dogs, both big and small.

These two play rough and tumble when they are together. Nipping, mouthing and general rowdiness. Both are very obedient around people though.

Horses are the same. My horses, nip one another and kick one another when they are together. It’s natural.

They stand like they are carved out of stone when a person is handling them, though.

Good training.

Phone?

No they don’t phone one another.

I’m not sure about texting.

My Boston Terrier mix and my full-bred standard dachshund don't love each other. They co-exist. But both of them love the cats and cats love them. The Boston will play with the Maine coon like he's playing with a dog. When the cat gets tired of it, he walks away. The dog weighs 22 pounds, the cat 23!!

Step away from the phone and go shower your furry kids with playtime and love

Phone?

Kittens naturally tumble and bite but out grow, then will often play chase games. I did have two who really went at it when they were one to two though. I had gotten a companion cat for the older of the two and she was a real slugger. She was a tiny thing who body slammed to knock the other cat off his feet. There would be fur all over the room and it was all beige-the bigger older cat. They both loved it. It went on for about a year.

Phone?

Lots of users access this site via their phones.

It is obvious judging by some of the responses to photos posted (over on some of the home repair, etc. threads)--some are quite funny & the responders come off looking like idiots. Because they are looking at a phone sized image & miss detail & respond with a 'solution' that will obviously never work.

There's lots and then there is everyone. I for instance am on a PC.

There's lots and then there is everyone. I for instance am on a PC.

What is that supposed to mean?

I'm on a PC, too.

I'm also aware that there are other 'devices' that allow you to access the internet including smart phones.

This appeared on my FB feed today. Compatible friends:

not exactly on topic, but sure made me laugh!

At this point the two of them could well represent a large portion of the remaining white rhino population.

Hope some participated in the research study. Thank you.

Nickel, my two cats (litter sisters) still rough house and play fight, and they're 5 or 6 now. All our other cats have settled down once they became adults, but I'm still waiting for these two to do so. They're both pretty big for cats (over 15lb each) and when they get a wild hair and go thundering up and down the hallway playing chasey at 3am it's a little unsettling :-)

that's fun to know, colleenoz, thanks! Our dogs mostly play during daylight hours, thank goodness. Sometimes in summer when we have the windows open, they decide to drink from their waterbowl on the deck. It's amazing how much louder it sounds in the middle of the night!

Last October a very small cat that the vet's records show as an estimated birth date as June 1 slammed it's body on my screen door and made a small cry. Her coat was Halloween cat colors, black with streaks of taupe, yellow, and reddish brown. Not a good coloration to be taken to any animal shelter at that time of the year. I decided to keep her until a week after Halloween until she and my 15+ pound depressed cat started rough housing. Now that she has doubled her weight to 6 pounds and is older they only play a couple of times a week and not as intensely as they did. He became a happy cat and no longer just keeps to himself. I am a deep sleeper so if they play at night I have not heard them but about 7-9 in the evening they go at it.

"At this point the two of them could well represent a large portion of the remaining white rhino population."

There are only two Northern White Rhinos left in existence - both females.

White (wide) Rhinos

Back to the topic - cats biting during petting is well known and understood to be simply the cat getting over-stimulated and its up to the human to recognize the signs that the cat has had enough and should be walked away from. You would think the cat would just walk away on his own but look at it from his point of view - he's telling you"enough" by a) stopping purring b) stiffening up, c) eyes look crazed, d) tail flicking or twitching. Biting usually happens only after youve ignored the warning signals.

Cats have only been domesticated a few thousand years - genetically they are still very much wild cats with a wiild cat's nervous system and so if they have exposed their belly (sign of submission) and a big giant hand swoops in and "attacks" while hes in a vulnerable position -well, no surprise that the instincts kick in and they go into defense mode.

Of course there are exceptions to the rule - my Orangie for instance is total mellow puss you could pet him all day and he wouldnt complain one bit. I can rub his belly a little but then he will start doing this play biting and wrestling and I have to know when to stop because at some point I know he would flip a switch and bite me for real.

Read Jackson Galaxy, Pam Johnson or John Bradshaw - they can explain it better than me!

It really truly is their rules. It is up to us to "get it". They are cats. Do not rub a cats stomach. They dont like it. Maybe they tolerate it and are friendly about it but they do not like it. We are slow and stupid. So absorb this fact. The problem is US. slow and stupid. Chomp

But my marmalade cat, the biter, does love her stomach to be petted. She is very soft and silky. I have never had a biter before and she definitely doesn't hurt me. But it's interesting when she decides she's done with petting and now will bite.

- STUDY DESCRIPTION Owner interactions with their cats routinely involve petting. Cats often show different responses to petting, and we hope to further investigate these responses.

They dont like it. Maybe they tolerate it and are friendly about it but they do not like it.

***

But my marmalade cat, the biter, does love her stomach to be petted.

Given the diametrically different outlooks by the two posters above, I think the study may be very helpful. I've always wondered about statements made as to what animals do and do not like, and how valid those statements could be.

We have a cat and I rarely touch him. I just get the heeby geebies from petting animals. I might give him a little pet on his head now and then but that's about it. But then I have to run and wash my hands, and I'm not a germaphobe by any means. I can't even touch him to get him off my chair when he decides to sleep on it. I find animals so dirty and lord knows if there's bugs under that fur. I get that in my head because when I was married to my ex-husband our room mates cat had kittens. My ex decided they needed to be bathed so one by one he put them in the bathroom sink to wash and they were literally covered in bugs which was only noticeable once their fur was wet. That was 40 years ago and I still cannot get that out of my head.