I am two and a half years post renovation and I still love my Wolf 26” dual fuel range. I cook two to three meals a day at home. I thought long and hard about spending the cash for a Wolf. I do. It regret it at all and a so happy with the range. I shopped for performance, not looks.

@pennfire

The got rid of the dual fans and have fans in the corner so not the same.

wekick - this discussion is really helpful. i just posted this q to you in another discussion, but incase you see it here: I am having trouble deciding between two all gas 48" ranges: Thermador pro harmony, Jenn Air Rise. Most important is the griddle, 2nd is oven performance I guess. The guys at our appliance store say that the Jenn Air griddle would get hotter because it is 'closer' to the heat source as opposed to the Thermador because that plate is removeable. Not sure if that actually makes sense to me. We are stuck. Maybe the answer is we cant go wrong either way. We are leaning toward the Thermador only because the matching 72" free standing refrigerator has larger capacity (24c.f.) versus the new Thermador freedom 72" tall (20c.f). MAYBE comparing the ovens will help me decide. Between the two, the Thermador has 1 fan in the larger oven, the Jenn Air has a twin fan true convection. Is it fair to say that as a result, the 'evenness' of temperatures in the Jenn Air gas would be better than the Thermador and maybe closer to that of an electric oven? In other words, we don't bake a lot, but do sometimes. Not enough to justify the higher dual fuel cost. But would the difference in oven performance between a dual fuel and all gas be less in the Jenn Air because of the 'true' convection?

Love the Thermador Pro Harmony. It's a beast and bakes/roasts pretty evenly. Watch out though... it's likely backordered and you'll need to wait a few weeks for most any of thee high end ovens.

@Gregory Daniel

”The guys at our appliance store say that the Jenn Air griddle would get hotter because it is 'closer' to the heat source as opposed to the Thermador because that plate is removeable.”

—-—

The Thermador has 1630Watts while the JA has 1320 Watts. You would really have to see how the JA is constructed and what the metal/thickness is under the stainless to guess which is the hottest but you really have to test the product to see how hot and how evenly it heats.

“Is it fair to say that as a result, the 'evenness' of temperatures in the Jenn Air gas would be better than the Thermador and maybe closer to that of an electric oven?”

——

I think the “true“ or European convection is oversold. I think a heat source immediately by the fan creates sort of a blow torch effect. Hot air coming from right past the heating element dries the surface of the side of what you are baking creating faster browning on the side facing the fan. The air current already does this and then add heat to it? All you can really do is read as many reviews(like @Glee 4 wrote) as possible to see how people say the ovens bake unless the dealer has a live one to try.

The biggest difference in performance for gas and electric is due to the venting in the ovens which can’t be changed. This is an illustration I found on stackexchange that illustrates this.

In a gas oven, it gives you more airflow which is more natural convection. It takes away humidity at the same time. A lot of recipes are developed with this heat from the bottom so the fan just isn’t that usable for things that need to rise anyway. You might use it for cookies or roasting. It is trial and error though. It depends on fan speed.

I do like dual fans but my Electrolux wall oven bakes very evenly with one fan. If an oven with one fan gets off at all to one side or another it is very uneven. The dual fans always assure turbulence vs linear air flow.

@wekick

Wow- This is very helpful.

In the end, I’ve decided to go with the Thermador Pro Grand gas range, although to me after all the research, and based on what I’m looking for, there’s no clear winner between that and the Jenn Air.

I am going through a kitchen re-do and need to replace my 17 year old Wolf gas range which I love but can no longer get replacement parts for. I am trying to decide among the Thermador Pro Grand, Pro Harmony or the Wolf. I really thought i was set on the Thermador Pro Grand but have been reading about the fan noise concerns, so now I am not so sure. I am not a fan of the Wolf stacked burners, my old one has the two rings which is why I thought Thermador, also the Thermador burners on either model are more powerful than the Wolf: 18-22K BTU vs max 15K on Wolf, but the ovens on the Wolf are rated for much higher BTUs (30K vs 20-22K). Bottom line is: am I making this too complicated? is it al not much of a difference? in which case the fan noise issue becomes a deciding factor. All this because I don;t have the option to keep my old Wolf.

Any thoughts or advice would be most welcome as it's becoming quite a struggle.

When you say “fan noise” do you mean the convection fan when it’s on?

My wife really prefers the look of the legs on the Pro Grand over the Pro Harmony. After tons and tons of research and not being able to decide...that comment by her made my choice clear :). Fan noise isn’t a deciding factor for us because we won’t be using the congestion fan a lot.

Meant “convection”

@Gregory Daniel

I am not so concerned about the convection fan noise, but rather the cooling fan(s) after the oven is turned off. I have seen a number of posts on this forum regarding loud cooling fans for Thermador ranges. Based on your comment, does it mean that you have not found the cooling fan noise to be an issue?

Oh sorry - I don’t have a Thermador yet. going through the research now and made up my mind to go with Thermador.

I’ll be interested what either of you get. I am also about to decide on the Thermador Pro Harmony. I keep looking at the Grand Pro, but it looks like the only true upgrade is the 22K vs. 18K burner (which I would like), and the larger oven cavity, which I don’t need. And the Grand Pro sticks out further from the cabinet. I have a commercial depth range now, and I keep thinking the kitchen would look more elegant, and the walkway would work better, if the range is standard depth. Is there really much difference in heat between 18K vs 22K? I have 21K now, and I only use it for stir fry, which I do not do all the time. Otherwise, I have the burners on Med Low or Med even for pan frying, etc. My other choice is the 36” gas Hestan, which has all the features I want, but is also commercial depth with a large door.

Good point on the depth of the range. For how we’re designing our kitchen, it won’t interfere with walking as much. By the way, I don’t really need the extra heat/power that comes with the Pro Grand—it’s just my wife likes the legs of it vs the Harmony. I feel like calling the Pro Grand ‘commercial depth’ makes it seem like it would stick out more than most. My current 30” regular kitchenaid range sticks out 2-3“ and also my 2nd choice range-the JennAir Rise 48” also sticks out just as much as the Pro Grand, according to published dimensions. So is Pro Grand actually more “standard” depth whereas the Harmony is a tad shallower to get the true flush look?

We decided on the 36" Thermador Dual Fuel Pro Harmony with griddle. It'll be a few months before we're able to install but I'm looking forward to it! It's sitting in my garage right now just being a tease.

The main impacts on our decision were the depth (standard vs commercial) because it's in a tight corner which would be uncomfortable with a more protruding appliance. And the fact that it came with a free dishwasher rebate. Even though we didn't actually need to replace the dishwasher, I couldn't resist a shiny freshie one vs the one that came with the house.

I thought really hard about going with the Wolf especially with their good customer service history, but I was worried about the porcelain chipping, backorder status, and the fact that some of the features that were a plus on the Thermador like the telescoping oven grates, were available for an extra fee on an already more expensive unit. The Thermador was already a stretch for us so that's where we stayed! I decided I wanted a dual fuel rather than an all-gas, so we eliminated the BlueStar, though it seems like a solid choice otherwise.

Best of luck to you all with your decisions - now it's just puzzling out the hood and ventilation systems for me. If you thought the range decision was hard - eep!

I like the feet better too, but my range right now goes to the floor and you don’t really notice it because the island is across from it. I like that Jen Air too! But it does not have an infrared broiler. But it does have twin convection and multiple modes on its oven that the Thermador does not.
Yes, I think most pro or pro-style ranges protrude, and the Harmony at the “standard” depth is the outlier.

I am still leaning towards the Pro Grand. The depth is not a concern since it would stick out about 1.25 inches more than the current range at the deepest point which is the oven door handles. The main reason for the Pro Grand over Harmony would be overall look and self cleaning oven. May need to go to a demo kitchen to see how loud the cooling fan is on the Pro Grand which at this point for me is the main concern.

If you do check the fan out, please report back!

I did finally see a 48” Thermador Pro Grand gas range operating and the cooling fans seemed to be no louder than the convection fans and certainly not close to the blower on the vent hood. So I pulled the trigger on the Thermador and now will have to wait the 12-16 weeks for delivery. Really excited to have made the choice.

We went to look at the redesigned Harmony and my SO really did not like it : \ I still like the burners and features of the Grand Pro, but it really does seem like the bulkiest of the pro-style ranges, and I do not want to go any larger than my current range (depth).
Now I’m thinking about the new Monogram 36” gas which is the same size as what I have currently, but a little sleeker. And it has all the features I want except it does not say infrared broiler (although the old models had it). Just wondering when they will actually start to ship.

Depends on if you do a lot of baking. DF is good for baking. Gas is better for roasting. I have a built in electric oven so looking at all gas range.