And what you describe is the need to live there and decide how you want to live in this house. I’d say don’t rush it. Better to plan a long time and do it once.

It's definitely recessed. Maybe this view shows it better.

Ugh, I can't imagine living there during so much renovation. Having all of our furniture there and then moving it around for putting in floors. All that dust and noise. Do you not think we'll like the layout?

And looking at the back of the house I’d say you’d want to consider adding a window or door with a full window in it on the other side of the FP. And, probably better to consider putting the laundry where the existing PR is now and putting in a full bath with door to the outside where you and I were considering for the new laundry location. That would have better access to the pool - yes? By putting the laundry where the PR is now you make most of the daily traffic be at the right side of the plan and traffic going to and from the master would only be for that. Something to consider. These are the subtle things that make a big difference and you really can’t get the pulse of the house until you’re there a bit. It’s a hassle to do floors while living there but it’s done all the time.

I can see it’s recessed at the sides but the front of the bay is in line with the facade of the house. The plan you provided shows the front set back quite a bit. These small details can shift the planning into a whole new direction so best to start off with an accurate floor plan of the existing conditions.

And I don’t know what you mean about ‘not liking the layout’ - which layout are you referring to? Again, yes it’s a hassle to live through floors but it can be phased and planned so it’s doable.

@thinkdesignlive, I'll take better pictures next week. The window is recessed. It was actually something I didn't like. I figure if you're going to have a bay window it should stick out..allowing more light in and offering a better view.

Another original thought was to tear down the fireplace and put a double window or door there. Still a contending idea, just need to know about costs and if the gains are worth it.

We thought about putting a bathroom where in the current closet (proposed LR) is but someone brought up the fact that a toilet so close to the living space was not ideal (no one wants to hear or be heard in the bathroom).

You may want to seriously consider keeping the kitchen layout primarily as is and recess the refrigerator into the garage. Then, open up the sink wall into the sunroom like this:

Brocksway Drive · More Info

Klopf Architecture - Kitchen from Sun Room · More Info

I'd close off the mini window that goes between the LR and kitchen, open up the sink wall like the above and have stools on the sunroom side, your table in the SR with great solar shades (go ahead and motorize them with all the money you'll save by doing it this way :), definitely add a window/door from the LR to the new deck (it's great for party/flow/light and again not a budget buster in the scheme of things if you keep your kitchen in the same general spot). The garage door would probably need to shift down to accommodate the refrigerator being recessed but, again, in the scheme of things not a big deal overall.

@thinkdesignlive just when I think I have it all figured out. ;-)

Doing what you suggest definitely saves money. Ah but that current kitchen is so small and very different feel than the openness I have in my current house and what I was trying to replicate. Having that opening on the sink wall does look nice.

My husband definitely likes this latest idea. I told him we might be able to add that room over the garage now. hah.

ETA - City records

Ok - you can see the 17 wall on the kitchen and living side which does put the bay out to the facade. This is good. Not to sell you either way as this all boils down to structure and budget and if you can open it up more then great. My hunch is that kitchen will feel 100% better with the refrigerator completely recessed and that sink wall totally open. Really truly a whole different feel than what is there. If you just took the refrigerator out of the room for a test you could get a sense of it.

@thinkdesignlive, oh so I'm misinterpreted the 7 on the LR wall? I thought that was 7 feet longer on the living room than the kitchen. I see the mistake clearly now. Sorry for the misrepresentation and confusion!

Image below of the living room into the kitchen from the front door. (I didn't include the pocket doors in my layout because I wasn't planning to keep them there.) I'm going to need to go back to your design layout and re-imagine this kitchen. Won't that 20X14 room be so big for a dining room table?

I’m basing this off the fact that the front of the bay is in line with the front of the living room. See the roof line above the bay and where the front window falls? I can’t say about the city plan dimensions - all dimensions would need to be verified.

Do the stairs go up only? Any pictures of the whole LR?

Not sure what you're asking about the stairs. Did you see that photo of the living room toward the kitchen wall?

Your home and land are lovely! I too am not crazy about the LR bay with window facing garage wall, sheesh! But money may be better spent on higher priorities in the interior room layout.

Ok I think this is all I have left in the tank :) you can easily set your existing furniture up into this layout and just live with it for awhile. The cabinets in the bay window I’m imagining as area for coffee maker, toaster, pantry stuff, herbs on the counter. Which would allow your sink area counter to be more free for prep and clean up. Again, not the kitchen expert here but I’d say this is as close as you can get to keeping kitchen closed off from living room but more open to sun room.

Ok ty for the other photos. Yeah that Living room corner by the FP is crying out for a window. I wasn’t sure of the stair wall and how it was detailed and now see the wall where you could have the TV if you like. It would take some living there and trying out the room arrangement for me to see what felt best (and it depends on your existing furniture and what you wish to supplement with new, etc).

To answer your question about sun room size - it’s perfect for a 10’ table.

@marylut thank you. We are looking forward to enjoying the big yard and peaceful area.

@thinkdesignlive, thank you for all of your help, input and patience! My husband thanks you for creating a space that works for our needs/wants while saving us money. ;-) Win, win for sure.

And Living Room layout suggested has a generous sofa table behind the sofa (so ideally you'd get a floor outlet installed while doing floors) and you could have a couple of ottomans there or the host and hostess chairs for the DR table / also could be used for office armoire area....

Transitional Living Room · More Info

Want do you think of this tweak in master?

How did that picture get posted? Here is what I meant to post.

@marylut, I don't drink coffee. My husband would probably like this but then we'd need a porch off out bedroom to enjoy the morning views while he drinks his coffee. :)

@marylut, Ahh the his and her closet idea. That's possible.

I posted wrong photo, I meant to post photo giving hubby the existing closet so save $ there, and you get new dressing room with your makeup vanity.

I hear WIC are out and dressing rooms are all the rage right now. A possible Plan B if needed, and more lifestyle ideas...

If your fireplace is gas, and you love to grill, consider building a gas grill outside - it may not cost much if gas line is already coming from that direction.

If you create laundry/mud room in the closet opposite the flex room, you will be adding new plumbing, so consider extending the washer hot/cold water lines outside to a new outdoor shower for the new pool. You can enclose the shower so it looks good with the decking.

Enclosing the sunroom will cost $, but since you want new cabs anyway, it won’t cost much to relocate the new fridge and new cooktop to the sunroom, and venting the cooktop to the outside is always preferable.

It costs $ to demo the load-bearing sunroom brick wall, but not a lot to move the sink and DW to the sunroom side of the brick wall and add a 12” x96” countertop with counter stools where the DW/sink are now. So when you talk to your contractors, Plan B might be turning sunroom into Kit/DR as you originally proposed. The more of the sunroom wall you remove the more the supporting beam/columns will cost, but you can find out what your budget can take. Personally, IMHO I think pass through windows are outdated and columns are preferable.

The sunroom has plenty of space for the 10’ DR table and a kitchen, with plenty of room along the cabinetry side and 3’ path along the left side to access the deck. You have floor space for either a swing door or French door double sliders to access the yard.

If you put the cabinetry along the right side of the sunroom, you get easy access to carry groceries from the garage and you get 24” more inches where you can widen the new garage mud room.

Plan B can include your original idea of Turing the bay window into an office. Consider leaving the wall up with the double doors for access and adding wall even with the garage wall to create a back hall.

@marylut, I have thought about converting the wood burning interior fireplace into an exterior one but discovered that it isn't really possible No gas line at this house. We'd have to use propane

An exterior shower is a great idea.

I'll take a good look at your kitchen idea when I can sit at the computer tomorrow morning. The phone screen is just too small. Again, you've come up with an idea I haven't considered. I appreciate that.

ETA - The added space for the mudroom is nice. I do like the office option. I feel like the sink is a bit too far from the other appliances but maybe not? I like that you came up with another idea. I've been looking over thinkdesignlive's latest kitchen idea and trying to figure out if a galley kitchen will work for me. I really like that it will save tons of money, and I'm reading galley kitchens are very efficient but it's such a big change from the more open kitchen I currently have.

Not to beat a dead horse but, again, the only way to really know if the plan can work for you is to live and work in the existing kitchen for awhile....if you decide it's not for you then you know what you need to do.

Totally agree with that. Try to go about your weekly routine, thinking about what is not working for you, then repeat routine for a week as if you were living in Plan A. Then Plan B. It may help to put down painters tape to mark out new rooms.

We'll be putting tape down next week in the flex room to get an idea of a hallway leading to MB and to get a feel for the smaller size of the flex space.

Am I able to post a picture and get recommendations?

Hi, Tri You, if you want comments about your home question, start a thread under the Dilemmas tab

Also, I don’t think it’s been mentioned yet but if your lot can support a garage addition it might make sense to consider converting the garage to be a kitchen/mud/laundry area off the new garage. Then the sunroom could be ping pong and the living space could grow into the existing kitchen for a larger family room. The small flex space could be dedicated office. But I’d want to know what my structural limitations are before I’d get too invested in any one direction.

Hi just thought I'd add a suggestion. Why not use the sunroom as your livingroom , the existing LR as the dining area . Take out a bit more of the kitchen wall to add an island/ peninsula or expand the kitchen a bit into the former living room . Use your flex room as a library/ office.

@dee_mckervey, thank you for your input. I hadn't thought of that idea. I'll have to fiddle with the program I have and see how it looks.

I like that dee if they can live with the ping pong in the garage. A lot will depend on how hot/sunny that sunroom is throughout the day and what you want near the pool/backyard (living, dining, or action packed room like ping pong). A sunroom can be challenging with TV watching as you tend to need to close the window treatments more often than not. If your lot doesn't have mature trees that can provide shade near the sun room it might be wise to think about planting those right away.

Couldn’t sleep so went ahead and did dee’s layout...what will be interesting is for you to get a feel for what function you like better in which location and with the kitchen opened up this way you really could have dining or living in either location. Columns straddling the island would help keep structural costs down. The cabinetry wall separating the sunroom and kitchen could be all pantry or combo pantries and counter. This layout really works best for overall house traffic flow IMO.

@dee_mckervey & @thinkdesignlive, you all are amazing. I really appreciate the time and input. I'm meeting with a contractor tomorrow. After finding out about load bearing walls, what do I do next? Show the contractor these ideas and hash out which option is best? I'm sure they'll have some input. Determine which plan I like best first, then get a quote? Asking for a quote for the various ideas seems like too much to ask. What's proper protocol?

You have really given me some great ideas and I honestly don't know which I like best.

ETA: I really like this one, it's very similar to the kitchen/dining room layout I have right now., which I find comforting. My husband thinks the space is much too big for a dining room, but I think we can get creative with the space. For example there is no foyer (we've thought about building a bump out). Maybe with some of that extra space, we can create a foyer with a knee wall. We're doing a walk through today. I will be seeing the house with a few new lenses today.

The contractors structural engineer should weigh in on your top 2 ideas.

Wow! Thinkdesignlive! That looks great to me-lol!! Lianne- congratulations on your new home and blessings on your journey to make it truly yours!!

Genius!

BTW, I hope a contractor pro weighs on your question about the first meeting. I think it is very important YOU interview contractor to see if you want to work with that person, (do you feel listened to, payment structure, who will be on-site manager, how often will contractor physically visit your site, how often will contractor communicate directly with you, how many years working with the subs, have kitchen designer on staff, etc). My experience is the contractor does a walk through with you and listens to you saying what about the current floor plan isn’t working for your family. I like it when they ask ME good questions - can prove good listening skills and trying to understand my needs. Then discuss contractor’s ideas. Then show your various floor plans for contractor input. Contractor should be able to verbally ball park the cost of each major change (to enclose sun room, to remove load bearing wall subject to engineer report, to move kitchen, to move laundry, to enclose flex room, to add foyer, to add exterior door to powder room, etc). The contractor will take measurements and get back to you with a floor plan.

Thank you @dee_mckervey, we are excited and nervous. So many decisions to make. It's overwhelming!

@marylut, great information, thank you. Meeting with our first contractor today, I appreciate your timely advice.

We've decided we're going to take down the wall between the kitchen and sunroom and the wall between the kitchen and living room. mamagoose_gw zn6OH created the kitchen layout shown here which is very similar to a local kitchen designer came up with. What size island would you suggest? Seeing the whole house layout, would you change the layout of the kitchen any?

Exciting news! Glad you found a contractor. MamaGoose is very talented at designing wonderful kitchen layouts. The red square looks the right size, the island image is too many steps away from the sink and too close to the fridge. The recommendations...Allow 24” for elbow room for each seat at the island, so 3 seats needs 6’ counter and 4 seats needs 8’ counter. Allow at least 12” overhang for knee room, and that extra countertop weight requires support. Allow at least 36” traffic path behind the island seating, so 6’ for barstools and DR chairs if island is parallel to DR table. Allow at least 42” traffic path between island and lower cabs for 1 chef and 48” for 2 chefs, and 48” standing room for oven and fridge doors to fully open.

@marylut, thank you for your comment. I agree, the island looks a bit far from the sink. If I remember correctly, MamaGoose was suggesting the red square for the island if using the L-shaped configuration.

After speaking with the contractor yesterday, we've decided we're going to push the kitchen out 3 more feet. Giving us ample space for the dining table to fit without feeling cramped.

Here I am 2 months later with a plan, sort of. We have decided to put the kitchen in the space that is currently a sunroom and we are extending it 4 feet to ensure plenty of space for the dining room table. The kitchen will be 19 x 17.

Here are some basic details: The back of the house is south facing and overlooks 2 acres. My mother in law is building an addition to the right of our house. Here's what I know I'd like - a large window over the kitchen sink, slab cabinet/drawer fronts, an L-shape kitchen, an island, space for a dining table (10ft when fully extended), and a door or two leading to the back yard (one day a deck &/or screened in porch).

I would greatly appreciate kitchen layout help. 19 feet seems really wide. I don't want it to feel closed in with a lot of cabinets like the DK has below. Would the walls be too bare without cabinets? I don't have pretty things to put on shelves. Should I have more windows on the sink wall? Will it be too hot in the summer months?

Would you break up that 19ft wall with a backdoor on the back right? Or would you put the door off to the side of the kitchen? We plan to eventually have a pool somewhere in the back beyond the kitchen towards the right.

How about this layout (kitchen is 16’ across the back (south) to keep path to back door out of kitchen work area and is 11’ from wall to island so 9’ between sink and island prep space, 4’ of countertop between cooktop and sink, 9’ leg between fridge and sink). Nice to have Drop Zone/Mud Rm off garage, and patio or courtyard btw house and MIL section.

@marylut, thank you for taking the time to create a layout. I think you may have used the layout from my original post 2 months ago. We have since decided to take down two walls. I wasn't sure if I should start a new thread or just add to this one. Since I'm asking for help on the same space, I decided to add here. Not sure if many people see this old thread though.

We are taking down the wall between the sun room and current kitchen and the wall between the living room and kitchen. I'm hoping that by pushing out the kitchen 4ft, making the space 19 x 17 we'll have room for the dining room table in the kitchen.

From your layout, I think a door at the back of the kitchen works. I haven't really been able to visualize it. So thank you for that. Do you think 3 doors is too many? I feel like the space is pretty big, so I think it's fine. But I appreciate all input.

So this? Or this?

I took support ceiling beams out. Put door to porch in LR instead of Kitchen. You have room for path from 1/2 bath to master BR, and for DR table to be oriented either way.