You are causing yourself undue anxiety ... wait till they are installed and adjusted. Then, if there is a problem you can worry...

Definately not the same cabinet as you friiends. The rails on the top drawer are sized differently.

The reveal from the outside edge of door to the edge of cabinet is different also, The gap will be double when the cabinets are joined together which doesn't appear to be the case with your friends.

did you get them from the same place? yours are definitely different and no matter how much adjusting happens will never look like the white cabinets

@jennifer havin , yes same exact company. We have the same contractor as well and he keeps assuring me that they are the same.

well i guess if those drawers grow overnight you won't have anything to worry about, but I'm not sure how they are going to look like white ones

But take a deep breath and wait for them to be fixed and installed and then your contractor can deal with it if they are not correct. PS LOVE that color

@jennifer havin LOL at grow overnight! Do you mean the drawers need to be larger to close the gap in between them? They’re not the same size as my friends. But I wanted the gaps in between to be as small as hers are! I feel like he’s pulling my leg but what Can I do now?? Thanks!!! It’s Salem Black by Dunn Edwards

ha! yes it seems like they would need to get bigger to make that gap smaller :)

I can't wait to see (please post) your kitchen when completed

I know doing big projects like this we tend to focus on what is happening in the moment and need to step back and wait for the final end product. But wow is it hard not to freak when something seems off in the process.

Sorry to be blunt but I don’t get what they supposed to be. Full overlay? Partial overlay? Crooked overlay. Whatever they are trying for they are not right. The white ones are somewhat better but the gaps between the doors are way to big for full overlay doors and don’t even know what’s happening on the ends there. They will never look like the white kitchen (if that’s acceptable to you) and I seriously doubt they can get them close to even reveals. The top drawers should be a slab not shaker. The finish looks sub par. I don’t know what your options are or what situation you are in but if you go further it will be harder to get out of it. This is not good work.

@jennifer havin, thanks for your supportive words. I will keep you updated! It’s so nerve racking

@jdesig _gw this is what I was wondering as well. Of course it’s not what I expected. They haven’t been installed yet. I’m being told it will be fine, but I’m sure your work is upscale you sound like you know what you’re talking about. I have no idea what my options are either so that’s what is frustrating

I wouldn't accept a blanket reassurance that "everything will be fine." That sounds like bull---- to me. What you are asking is, how much gap between drawer faces are you providing to me? And then he has to TELL YOU what the plan is. If you have had discussions before this, and your contractor is schmoozing you along, you need to get some clarity. Stand up and remind your contractor what you were promised, and point out that what is delivered is not acceptable. Do it now, or you will regret it.

But first, you need to look at your contract. Does it say that you are ordering cabinets to be "substantially similar" to your friends? Does it say that you are purchasing/contracting for "full overlay". Does it set up a standard for what you should expect? Are there diagrams, pictures, specs?

@Mrs S. This is what I have been dealing with and I have spoken up, he has threatened to quit several times because I think he knows it’s BS. I wanted to think positive and hope for the best but apparently that’s not what I’m getting. I’ve asked this before and he told me “no more than 1 inch”. I asked for specific requests such as slabs for the 1st drawers and he said they couldn’t do that. I’ve talked to him about this and he is always defensive but I find it funny because he’s not even here to see in person what I’m talking about , so how can he defend the work? He says they do good work etc etc. contract literally just says “install kitchen cabinets “ and he has no idea what the specifics are bc I’ve asked full overlay and he didn’t seem to know the differences between them all , just that they only Install it this way. There are diagrams he did a rendering which also isn’t 100 percent but he said it “could be changed or adjusted”. Some of it we wanted 1 drawer instead of 2 below the wall ovens etc. here it is...

Start documenting every single thing he says to you with a follow up email reiterating what you talked about.

how much did you agree to pay, and how much have you paid so far?

he has threatened to quit? how much money would you lose?

what does your contract say? That is your legal document.

honestly, this sounds like a mess. I am truly sorry.

at the very least, he/they need to re do the fronts to give you full overlay...unless your contract states differently.

@Mrs S, thank you. I appreciate the help. This is unfortunate bc we just changed contractors for some of the same issues- lack of communication but in hindsight this situation seems worse! Our contract was 38K and we have paid for most of it already. Cabinets were 15K. I’m not sure how much we would lose but cabinets were custom painted , there’s no way we could return them. Haven’t been installed yet, that was 3500. He’s threatened to quit before when I complained and rightfully so about when he would promise to come and do the work at our house and not show up or let us know he wasn’t coming. Or arrive late and work until nighttime. It happens consistently. He contracts out and these people come and go as they please without any regard for our time. He says I need to be “patient” and I’ve tried so hard. The last few times this happened was when he met me at the slab yard and kept me waiting for him for 1.5 hours. Then over the weekend he promised his fabricator would come measure but didn’t show up several times (no show or no call) and then when he did show up it was unexpected early in the morning on the following Monday.

I thought he was trustworthy because he was a referral from a friend/co worker and he pretty much built her entire home. She tore it down and built a brand new house.

What would full overlay be like exactly? Because that’s what we thought we were getting. I honestly don’t think he knows what that is. I’m assuming it’s his guy that put together the cabinets incorrectly perhaps? Because he assembled the boxes and I’m pretty sure they’re not made to be assembled crooked with different sized gaps between the cabinets. Oy vey!

I never thought much about gaps between drawers. My Shaker cabinet drawers have very little gapping. If it bothers you, this issue needs to be discussed further with your contractor.

@kculbers it was discussed beforehand! This is why this is so frustrating. Your cabinets are what I wanted! Lol

What did you sign off on? Unfortunately that will be the telling facts, not verbal. Your telling him him the "look" you want and him telling you they will be the same does not cut in unfortunately. The devil is in the details. What brand and model cabinet does your friend have? What brand and model RTA cabinets is he installing for you?

@millworkman unfortunately those details are not in the contract. So this is what is confusing to me because he says they are exactly the same brand and model. This is the reason I hired him, she had her kitchen done and I wanted the same thing... don’t know where to go from here

Junk RTA is, well, junk. Expectations of something beyond what it’s capable of being should be banished.

@celadon this is true. I should have known

hautemama, you haven't answered any questions about your contract.

Either you have a contract, or you don't.

Either it says what you are getting, or it doesn't.

What state are you in?

Why have you paid the guy "most" of what you owe?

What payment schedule is set forth in the contract?

Does this person have a license?

Finally: how can you not know the brand name of your cabinets???? Most people shop around at least a little... or at least price out what cabinets would cost at Ikea first, so that they know some ballpark value.

I remain terribly sorry about your situation.

@mrs S , I have an invoice that he billed me which I’m assuming is the actual contract. It’s not like what other companies have. I received bids from 3 different places. I’m in CA. I used a contractor , he subcontracts people to do the work and orders the cabinets to be assembled. I’ve paid for the cabinets, they have been delivered, but not installed yet. There’s still a remaining balance for other items that need to be finished but those are minor. Yes he is licensed. I know ballpark value. He was about 5K less than if I were to go custom. Average price for cabinets if the contractor or myself were to go to a company to order them...

"He was about 5K less than if I were to go custom"

How is that 5k looking now? You cannot even tell us what you are buying. He sold you RTA cabinets, probably cheap but no way to be sure without the missing info. Unfortunately with no due diligence on your end you will end up with what you end up with and have no ground to stand on for any recourse except what this "contractor" decides to give you.

@millworkman thanks for your help

As others have said they are not the same as your friends- she has full overlay, it looks like you have 3/4 overlay. They could very well be the same brand just a different collection, or they have changed factories and they are being sold as the 'same'. It will be a perfectly nice looking kitchen when you move in. Is it worth 20K and six months delay to get what you wanted- probably not.

@hallet & co , thank you so much for your kind words. This gives me a lot of hope.

It is my understanding that with "full overlay" cabinets, the drawer front covers the face of the cabinet box, and "partial overlay" allows some of the cabinet box face to show. Yours are not full overlay, and once they are installed, the one-inch cabinet front that shows now will be a two-inch gap between drawer fronts. Somewhere in your cabinet order it should state what you ordered. What company did you order the cabinets from? Unless he built them, your contractor can only install what you ordered. Did he order them? I don't get it. Deciding on what type of cabinets you want is not as simple as just saying "shaker style." The actual construction of the cabinets (framed, frameless) and the type of drawer/cabinet doors (inset, partial, or full overlay) must be addressed when ordering. Your contractor seems like a nightmare to work with, but someone approved the purchase of your framed, partial overlay cabinets with shaker style doors; your friend's appear to be full overlay with shaker style doors (probably framed, but can't tell, as the full overlay hides whether they are framed or frameless.

There are two different questions here:

- Will your contractor be able to adjust the drawers/doors after install, so that each drawer/door has an equal gap, and they are all level/even? YES! Of course he can do that, and you shouldn't worry until install.

- Will your drawers/doors have identical gap spacing as your friend's white cabinets? Absolutely not - as others have discussed in detail above. However, if you'd never seen your friend's kitchen, would you have even noticed? What you are getting is a perfectly acceptable (albeit different from your friend's) style of cabinet.

Don't let the people above freak you out about quality. You ordered RTA cabinets, priced accordingly - and that's what you're getting. They aren't heirloom quality, but they're fine. Some of the pros on this site love to blast any cheap choices, because if we all did stuff on the cheap, they'd be out of business.

All that said.... given that you don't even know what brand cabinet you ordered (which is pretty remarkable), I find it VERY hard to believe that you *clearly conveyed* to you GC that you wanted those EXACT cabinets. I suspect the conversation with GC went something like "I don't know anything about kitchen design, but I love my friend's cabinets and that's exactly what i want in my kitchen. But i want them painted in a different color than hers" GC: "Your friend got shaker cabinets. I can get you those shaker cabinets in a custom color." [GC thinking to himself: The friend's cabinets were from a company that doesn't offer custom painting, but XYZ cabinet co has a similarly priced shaker cabinet that offers custom painting so we'll do that.]

In the end, i think your cabinets look really nice and you'll be happy.

@decorpatti I did not order the cabinets. The contractor ordered them and sent someone to assemble and install them. I have been looking at cabinets for awhile and now I wanted full overlay so when we discussed it, he said they would be exactly how my friends are (which is full overlay). We discussed specifically the amount of gap and he promised no more than 1 inch between the drawers. I’ve asked him where he will order the cabinets and he said it’s the only company he uses and the exact same as my friends. He built the cabinets. They came in boxes to my home. It has been a complete nightmare. Hopefully this ends ok...

@h202 thank you for your thorough response. I would have absolutely noticed because I do not like huge gaps and didn’t want partial overlay. I wanted it to have minimal gaps. That’s correct, we are on a budget and needed to prioritize what we could absolutely save on and in the end, yes if it would save 5K I would be ok with gaps if he could assure they would look like my friend’s cabinets with at the very least 1 in gap. She mentioned hers are also uneven in some parts but I haven’t seen ours installed yet. He said they are from the exact same company. Only difference is, he Painted hers on site which caused chipping. So for mine, he had the company take care of it. I love the part where you say they look nice and I’ll be happy. I really appreciate that

@decorpatti unfortunately his invoice literally just says “shaker cabinets” LOL with the words “install cabinets. lower cabinets to be painted”

@h202 I wouldn’t say I’m uninformed. He purchases and builds the cabinets and when I ask for details he states he buys them online from a company and doesn’t specify the brand. I guess that’s my fault for trusting someone. He literally built my friend’s kitchen and entire home so I had faith in what he does. There’s been other issues with him, so it’s not been fun at all. I didn’t purchase the cabinets myself from a company. He’s threatened to quit because he doesn’t want us to be unhappy because there have been multiple issues where he didn’t deliver what he promised. Such as coming to my house to do work after hours when I have a family at home (newborn included and I work full time as a Nurse Practitioner with an 1.5 hr commute each way) and telling me that I need to be “patient” when he tells me he will be there at a certain time but then no shows and doesn’t call to let me know so we are literally waiting all day for him. On my birthday he made me wait for him for 1.5 hours at a slab yard to pick material , and when I decided what I wanted he said he was going to buy it elsewhere because he didn’t like their customer service. After that he sent a fabricator to my home who also no showed and rescheduled multiple times all weekend (same birthday weekend) and then decided to show up at 8 A Monday morning when everyone was sleeping. who also told me he wouldn’t show me a template for the fireplace or counters , he was just going to “build it”

"I know ballpark value" - No, that sounds unlikely

"Average price for cabinets if the contractor or myself were to go to a company to order them..."-someone did go to a "company" to order them. It's YOU who doesn't know the cost/value of those cabinets.

"I have an invoicethat he billed me which I'm assuming is the actual contract." - No, it's not a contract. Of that I am sure. You don't know what a contract is, and an invoice isn't one. In your case it sounds as if you are operating with NO contract, which is against the law for your contractor, and I don't know what to say about your judgment proceeding with a project this size with no agreement in writing. Words fail me.

"Yes he is licensed"- it doesn't sound like it. What kind of license does he have? Have you checked? He certainly isn't operating like a licensed GC is required to, under the law in CA.

"He was about 5K less than if I were to go custom"- This is preposterous. Custom cabinets in CA? My neighbor paid $80K 10 years ago for her cabinets, and I don't think even they were totally custom. She had options, so, semi-custom. You could've had Ikea and received good quality hinges/cabinets/options.

You think you have an issue with the "gap" between the drawer fronts. It sounds like your issues are not understanding basic legal documents like contracts, and why people use them. I am willing to bet that there will be all manner of issues/problems with this remodel.

H202: Really? You don't think the GC sounds like a nightmare? Here are just some of the comments from the OP: (1) he said the cabinets were the "exact same brand and model" as her friend's cabinets (clearly, they are not), (2) he promised to come, didn't show up, ((3) arrives late or too early, (4) no regard for her time, (5) he kept her waiting at the slab yard for 1.5 hours, (6) threatens to quit, and (7) "he doesn't know what full overlay is." My assessment of the GC in no way excuses the OP for her lack of research about cabinets on which she was spending 15K.

I live in CA too, and we spent at least 3x what she is spending on our own kitchen remodel in 2009, so I get it that she is not getting a custom kitchen. But SOMEONE ordered cabinets with shaker style doors, which is what she asked for; but she also asked for cabinets like her friend, and he assured her they were the same. She says he ordered them, and clearly, they are not the same, so that is evidence of dishonesty. Yes, the drawers can be adjusted, but they are not full overlay, never will be, and will not look like her friend's cabinets. That being said, they should be perfectly fine, partial overlay, shaker style cabinets.

@mrs s In no way am I trying to debate with you. This is my experience and I asked for help. I’m obviously in a different income bracket than you because I am not paying 80K for custom cabinets. I understand people pay a lot for their renovations. My kitchen is small. Simple and in no way extravagant. It’s a basic galley kitchen. Yes I am indeed having issues. From a referral that a friend sent me. Have a nice day

No i don't think that sounds like a nightmare. I think, of the 7 things you listed, four of them related to time management - which is par for the course for all but the most expensive GCs. Two of the items relate to this particular cabinet issue, which i still think is more likely related to the poster's lack of sophistication. And one is that he threatens to quit, which if the poster is being as low-sophistication/high drama as this incident, I would too. I mean, half her complaints about him were because he was interfering in her birthday time.

I think he sounds *exactly* like what a GC who works on $38k kitchens should sound like. I have done kitchens at that price point. The expectations are very different. Not bad work, necessarily. But they're going to show up late and not make plans around your birthday weekend.

Your drawer fronts are clearly not full overlay, but the kitchen will, in all likelihood, look great when completed.

The OP asked for help and placing blame will not provide that.

Time and again the caveat for other readers is research your project thoroughly, and be sure all details, discussions and agreements are in writing.

@h202 great. You sound very judgmental. The complaints would have been valid whether or not it interfered with my birthday time. The time I do have available is reserved for my family and I don’t have a need to defend myself to you. It was my only day off. Lack of sophistication and high drama? Why even bother commenting. I have no more nice words for you. Have a nice day

I’m obviously in a different income bracket than you because I am not paying 80K for custom cabinets.

I am not in any income category/situation where I can afford what you spent, hautemama, much less $80K for cabinets. You need to read what I wrote again. But I have done improvements to my home, added a pool at one point, have various smaller projects done. I've never done anything like that without a written contract.

You are so defensive that it is obvious you DON'T want help. You want validation. You want emotional support. Good luck. I would never accept that kind of cr*p work, no contract, terrible communication, dismissal of reasonable questions, etc. I wouldn't let that contractor into my front door after any of that. If your friend had chipped-paint cabinets, and you knew that, then all of this foolishness is on you. Life is full of tough lessons, and you're learning one now.

My last comment was in response to Decorpatti, not the original poster. But i stand by my point that 98% of GCs are flakey with time. That is literally what they do, and why the entire world is trying to find a good contractor, to no avail. Why do you think people get stressed out about home renovations? And why do you think they run over schedule most of the time? I thought your list of complaints seemed really run of the mill and not worth firing someone over. Again, if you read what i wrote, my point was I'm not blaming anyone for anything - you or your contractor (except your whining about your birthday - that I am calling you out for ....). It's pretty clear that this is your first major home project, a few *very minor things* have gone wrong and you are freaking out, you have lovely cabinets and a totally average contractor. You are getting all of this for a steal. My point was just that this wasn't some glaring error on your GC's fault either. No one's fault. This is totally ordinary run of the mill renovation drama. You got crazy defensive in the last few posts though - and i think you should step back for a second. You have perfectly acceptable, beautiful cabinets with (as far as i can tell) no imperfections or warranty issues. You thought they were going to have a slightly different aesthetic look, and it's disappointing that they don't. But literally no one will ever know or care except you. They are really pretty cabinets. For the price you are paying and total absence of contract, this could have gone really, really bad. You basically won the jackpot! But you're mad about the contractor wasting your time on both days of your birthday weekend, and waking up your family at 8am on Monday morning. Perspective.

@h202 thanks for your response. I’m not whining about my birthday lol. I just wanted to point out he wasted my time. Again, this was just one of many times. We have things we need to do and to wait around is annoying, I think everyone can agree with that. If it’s run of the mill that’s fine. I can understand that. The reason for this post was to get clarification, and I appreciate the time you took to respond. I just wanted advice that’s all. It’s hard to do a home renovation and I totally get that part. I just didn’t want to dig a deeper hole, and to catch a problem if needed

H202: I don't buy your defense of the GC; he disrespects his client's time and he lies about the cabinetry. Just those 2 things alone are unprofessional, at any cost. I agree with you that the issue of the cabinets not being what she wanted is not necessarily his fault, but he should know that partial overlay doors/drawers would leave gaps, and she did say she was concerned about having large gaps between drawers.

As for help for the OP: because of the lack of a contract, clearly stating what was being ordered, with specifics as to the style of cabinets (just stating the door style is not specific enough), it doesn't seem like you would have any recourse. The good news: once they are installed and adjusted so that the drawers are level and evenly spaced, and you have your countertops and other finishes, you will have a lovely kitchen.