Wow, it seems like an amazing rose, and what an interesting lineage!

Thanks for sharing.

Will it be available for sale some day? I'm on the lookout for additional interesting yellows.

Can I ask what the goal is that you are aiming for with this one? I'm really curious about how you strategize for rose hybridizing. (I am guessing the "lots of prickles" part might not be the goal, but I could be wrong!) :)

Thank you! "For sale"? Likely not. It's probably damned to languish in obscurity but it will make ME happy, and likely those who are daring enough to handle the prickles. Though, 1-72-1Hugonis is nearly without them. The goal? I want a healthy, heavily scented shrub which resembles the species, is easy to grow and repeats its flowering. I fell in love with the early 1920's ARS photos of Dr. E. M. Mills and want something with that feel.

Prickles are a plus, for me anyway. I've still got some blank spaces to fill in my impenetrable-thicket-of-thorns-fabulous-rose-border-hedge encircling my property. And I was just today thinking "I need some more yellows."

Dr. E.M. Mills looks charming too! On my wish list he goes!

So, if you ever feel like taking orders, let me know...LOLOL

That will be lovely! II love the smallish leaves on Dr E M Mills -- roses with delicate foliage are really beautiful.

A band of Hugonis hybrid Dr. E.M. Mills should be in the Friends of Vintage Roses order I pick up this coming weekend. Looking at its HMF photos, I loved the look of the flowers, the ferny foliage, the whole ambiance of the plant -- going for that "feel" in new breeding is a fine goal, Kim, and it's looking good already!

@catspa_zone9sunset14 thank you! Wait until you smell Dr. Mills! It is similar to the Ping Dong Yue Ji X 1-72-1Hugonis scent. I am so delighted that search resulted in Dr. Mills coming "home" back to the US. It only took six-plus years of working on it to get it from Sweden to The Netherlands to Seattle to Burling and the rest is history!

Wow, Dr.Mill is available from Burling, that's great news! He's going on my list for my next order.

Catspa I'm jealous that you're going to the Vintage sale....I wish I could get there! But I don't have time to drive down to Cali this month.

@slumgullion in southern OR as soon as the plants came out of quarantine, I had the cuttings sent to Burling. She was the first person in the US to propagate Dr. Mills in decades. You should check with her whether it is propagated at the moment, though.

According to the availability list I got from Burling on this past Sunday, she has Dr. Mills in stock

Thanks, Brandon. I knew she listed it last year but hadn't seen this year's list.

This is an interesting discussion. Thanks for the OP. It got me interested in learning more so I did a quick search and ran across this nice story about Dr. Mills (the person) and the rose.

https://www.storycuse.com/rose/

@RedBird_7a EastTN thank you for digging that up! It left out how I had contacted Hans van Hage of Bierkreek Nurseries in The Netherlands to ask if he knew of a way to obtain it from Sweden. Hans responded that he knew the Curator of the garden, and bud wood made its way to Bierkreek. Except, importing into the US became a real expensive, involved issue. The good old days of simply supplying the required paperwork and having them dropped into the mail and filter through the process, to be delivered to your home are LONG gone. The best estimates I could come up with were that it would likely cost me upwards of several thousand dollars in FEES and NO rose is worth that to me, period. Thankfully, Hans mentioned he was preparing a large shipment of the early American ramblers he had obtained and propagated to send to Anne Belovich in Washington. Thankfully, Anne and I had previously met years ago when we made presentations at the Celebration of Old Roses. I emailed and asked if Dr. Mills might please hitch hike in with her order. She graciously and excitedly responded, "YES!" and added plants for herself and Len Heller who has the Spin collection near her home, but who, unfortunately, is no longer active in roses. Anne's roses are now planted in the Chambersville, TX rose garden bearing her name and Dr. Mills has been restored to its homeland.

When VanFleet passed, the USDA partnered with the ARS to release two of his unreleased seedlings to the public. Dr. E.M. Mills and Sarah VanFleet were sent to to nearly 3 dozen nurseries and gardens for sale and trial. By 1985, Sarah was established all over the country but Dr. Mills was only listed in one US public display garden. A few short years later, even that had disappeared. Thank goodness for Help Me Find! Out of curiosity, I looked and that's how I found it listed in Sweden and started the ball rolling.

That is a fascinating story. I was also wondering about Leonard Heller because I haven't seen him offering spin divisions recently. I must have been one of the very very few lucky people to get a Prairie Peace before he stopped doing that (though he has quite a few others I would like to see in commerce!) I wish I had been able to attend an open garden at his place. My spins are just starting to bloom now.

Len was very active on Face Book selling his license plate collection and passing around cuttings and suckers. Then he announced he was finished. He created a MASSIVE garden. I wonder what will become of it?

Wow, roseseek thanks so much for the amazing story, and getting Dr. Mills back into the US!

It always makes me sad to hear about all the rosarians of yore who are no longer active or have passed. Hopefully their knowledge and their plants are preserved somewhere.

@catspa_zone9sunset14 good for you! Isn't that plant gorgeous? Thank you! I LOVE plants which look like this and have THAT scent! I'm collecting pollen right now from Xanthina, Hugonis and Primula blooms and that scent fills the kitchen! I WISH that hip would hold and it would set seeds, but it appears to be seed sterile. Just wait until you SMELL it! Mills is deciduous so when it begins looking "yuck" in fall, don't worry. It springs back beautifully! Have fun with your Sutter's Gold. It smells deliciously, too!

LOL great minds think alike, I just got a Sutter's Gold from Burling earlier this year. So glad to hear it will smell good!

As for Dr. Mills...well, I did just get some $ from the government, so I guess it's my patriotic duty to spend it...I wasn't planning on ordering again so soon, but now I think I have to get Dr. Mills ASAP.

Sigh. I am seriously lacking in self control sometimes.

Patriotism is a virtue, slumgullion :-). I am a scent junkie. A rose with wonderful scent will be forgiven a fair number of sins by me, but if there's little or no scent, it had better be pretty near perfect, or have some interesting aspect, otherwise, and it might still not make the cut, even so. The phrase "intense sweet, spicy scent" about the new hybrid is what first caught my eye in Kim's original post. Interesting that R. hugonis is described as having a mild, linseed scent on HMF -- is your 1-72-1Hugonis more strongly scented than the species, Kim? Or does the fragrance of your seedling more resemble or likely come from the Ping Dong Yue Ji side?

@catspa_zone9sunset14 I grow Fedtschenkoana and THAT has a "linseed scent". Hugonis, Xanthina, 1-72-1Hugonis and Ping Dong Yue Ji X 1-72-1Hugonis (AND the other assorted Hugonis seedlings in the yard) share a sweet, musty scent which carries quite a distance on the air. I don't collect the petals in the house because it becomes overwhelming. I can easily imagine this shared scent as part of a "chaparral scent". Primula is sweet but has an almost acrid element to its scent. I obtained Hugonis from Ralph Moore and, unfortunately, no longer have it as it was missed in the move when we sold the Encino house and moved to the coast. The Ping Dong seedling has a "spiciness" to its scent which originates from the plant parts (sepals, peduncles, ovaries), which appears to me to be inherited from Ping Dong Yue Ji as it seems a morphed version of the "peppery" scent I perceive from that plant's green parts.

I agree, scent is a CENTRAL FEATURE for roses IMO; at least for the ones that will be near the house and in the front garden.

I'm not so picky about the back garden because its inaccessible enough that I'm not there to enjoy the scents anyway; for the back garden I mainly look for large floriferous bushes (teas, chinas, rugosas, etc.) that will look gorgeous from a distance.

But even near the house, I'm willing to compromise on scent when there's a specific reason to, such as: I need a mini to fit in a small space; I need something that will tolerate shade; I'm enchanted with the overall effect of the bush (e.g. hugonis, glauca); I need a different color to break up my excessive number of pinks; or I really want to support or help memorialize a specific breeder.

I'm not sure my nose is so good though. I have PDYJ and can't smell it at all. Maybe the scent will get stronger as it matures.

@slumgullion in southern OR let Ping Dong Yue Ji open not quite half way, then cut it, bring it indoors and recut the stem under water, leaving it in the glass or whatever you recut it in to prevent any air bubble from entering the stem and stopping the flow. Let it sit indoors where it's like a bit warmer and more humid a little while and keep checking the scent. To my nose, here (and in the old hotter climate) it is HEAVILY scented. If you want scents which will blow your sinuses out of your head, Blue for You and Eyes for You. HEAVY, SPICY APPLE and other fruit. Gorgeous foliage with beautiful flowers. I'm nine miles from the Pacific, across nearly flat fields with only the Guadalupe Dunes providing any elevation variation between me and it. I don't spray nor use any other kind of fungicide, and look at this foliage. I haven't even fertilized with anything so far this year.

I harvest Eyes for You pollen and have to throw all of the flower petals and parts outside ASAP because the scent is SO strong, it drives us both out of the house! It is as penetrating and strong as Autumn Damask, though a different scent.

Hi Roseseek - thanks for the PDYJ advice, I will give it a try!

As for BFY and EFY, I see on HMF that people have variable opinions about the fragrance, which I think may mean there are different clones out there. May I ask where you got yours from?

@slumgullion in southern OR I honestly doubt there are different clones around. Opinions about scent vary greatly on quite a few roses. Can you smell the "rich, Tea scent" Graham Stuart Thomas used to wax so poetically about? I can't. It smells "bitter, green (unripe)" and like "clean Tupperware and Orthene" to me. We are all chemical creatures and while similar, far from "the same". Genetics, allergies, medications, physical ailments and injuries all play into the ability to perceive the oils and alcohols which make up scent. Add how temperature, wind, humidity (or their lack) vary how those oils and alcohols volatilize and how long they persist before totally evaporating and blowing away and it's rather remarkable so many of us perceive the same, or even similar experiences. I think my "clones" are likely the main ones in the US. I obtained my B4Y from Cliff Orent at EuroDesert Roses. He knew THAT was "YOUR color" and made sure he had one for me. E4Y came from someone who imported it. As with so many roses, I had the cuttings sent to Burling and she propagated the first commercial plants in the country.

Thanks!

You're welcome! Gene Boerner, "Papa Floribunda", who created the class and coined the term and who also bred 187 rose varieties over his tenure as breeder for J&P, used to hold flowers under his hat where the heat and humidity from his head would help release the scent so he could detect it. Those conditions are also what cause scent to "waft" on the air in the garden. They are what you need to be able to smell what you are physically capable of smelling.

@roseseek that is so interesting! I recall you mentioned (maybe on Facebook) that Marechal Niel smelled bitter to you, and I stuck my nose in my Marechal Niel to confirm it, but to me he smells sweet. This variability probably drives some people crazy, but I actually think this unique perceptual experience of specific roses makes them all the more interesting. Each of us has an experience with these plants that is personal and unrepeatable. There was an art installation at the Venice Biennale (I read about, didn't experience) that was made up of over 100 lbs of dried damask rose buds. Given the personal histories of the unique individuals visiting that pavilion, and given the wide cultural resonance of the scent of damask rose in the Mediterranean region, that installation would have triggered unique memories in each of the people who experienced it. I love that idea, and the poetic nature of the unbidden memories called forth by scent, including the associations that we might not even be conscious of, but which linger at the edge of our minds as we experience a fragrance.

Precisely, yes! MN stinks to my nose. It's VERY bitter, even when nearly fully expanded. Devoniensis has little scent (but bitter) until fully open, then it has a faint, fruity sweetness to me. Cressida begins INTENSELY bitter as the scent is SO concentrated, but once it begins evaporating it mellows to an almost overpowering myrrh. It's scent is SO concentrated, it used to stick to my mustache for HOURS. I know I am a "super taster" as I have tasted the chemical taste strips to determine whether I taste "bitter" or not. I DO. Cilantro is "soapy" to me. I like it in good Mexican food because it's supposed to be there, but it can be EASILY overdone. Lantana smells like "cat box" to my nose. There's nothing "minty" about that stench. I like the plant for all of its sterling qualities but I don't enjoy working with it. The same with lavenders and rosemary. The plants are great, but the smells become overpowering very quickly. Compare to your chemistry and imagine how widely we vary, even though we are "all the same"! Yes, the art installation sounds quite interesting! Now, imagine how taste relates and varies. Would you really want to have to cook for the public? LOL!