The code is what the inspector says it is on the day he says it.

Can't know unless you try :)

I've never heard of an exception being allowed, though some inspectors do seem less picky. The only thing that comes close is an allowance for repairs/improvements to happen over time because the homeowner is in a tough spot financially.

@Joseph Corlett, LLC,

I don't know how much experience you have with code compliance inspections as a sink replacement contractor, but the building code is not what the inspector says it is on the the day he says it, in my opinion (as a licensed class A contractor in Virginia and a licensed professional engineer.) Inspectors can be, and are sometimes wrong in their interpretation of the applicable code. When they are, appeals can be made to the code official. If there is an issue with the code official's ruling here in Virginia, there is a state technical review board to which appeals can be directed.

Inspectors and code officials can ask for proof of compliance with applicable codes, but they don't write the codes and they are not infallible in their interpretation of codes. To suggest otherwise reflects a lack of experience with code-related issues.

With so little info on the floor plan ...possibility for natural light ?....access....it is hard to be sure ...but it sounds like with only 6’5” at the peak ....a lot less than 800 sq.ft. will be useable enough to warrant the expense of finishing the space...and even more unlikely that you will be given a legal variance for it to be used for a living space...

@Charles Ross Homes As one PE to another, the amount of condescension in your post is a bit much, you might want to dial it back a notch or two.

Charles:

Have you ever seen an inspector red tag a job when it was built exactly to the plans that his office has signed off on? No? Well, when you have, you will have the right to lecture this sink installer on my lack of experience on code related issues.

Yeah, and it was a big 'un too. My countertop customers submitted their existing ceiling joists on their drawings and inspection signed the drawings as approved. They built the second story on those joists and the inspector red tagged. They showed him the signature on the drawings that his office approved. Too bad, because the code is what the inspector says it is on the day he says it.

My guess is you won't get an exemption on this, codes exist for a reason. Our basement is less than 2-inches shy of creating code-compliant / livable space. We brought in 3 GCs for estimates to renovate the space & they all gave us the same options: dig down OR move all the wires/pipes on the ceiling up to comply. Even the guy who wanted the job (& wanted to do it w/out a permit) was not willing to go against code. In the end it was too expensive & we don't have livable basement space.

Thanks for all the responses. Seems like the overwhelming opinion is we won’t be able to get a permit. So that’s begs the next question, what can we do without a permit? Can we insulate? Add flooring? Add lights? Can we make it a well conditioned storage space? We don’t care so much about getting “credit” for the square footage, but we would like the space to be more usable. Right now it gets to be over 100 degrees up there in the summer, can we not have the rafters spray foamed and then covered with drywall to hide the foam? Can we build shelves up there for organized storage? Can we add better flooring to cover the floor joists?

i imagine you'd technically need a permit for most -- if not all of that work. Google the permit requirements in your city. This is what my city says on permits:

"..... building permits are required to “construct, re-construct, alter, repair, remove, or demolish a building or structure; or to change the use or occupancy of a building or structure; or to install or alter any equipment for which provision is made or the installation of which is regulated by the Massachusetts State Building Code.”

You can essentially do anything you want so long as you don't call it habitable space. The wisdom doing things without a permit is really a local question. In my area permits are largely perfunctory and no one really cares. I have lived in areas where permits were heavily enforced and I wouldn't dare attempt something without a permit.

@Charles Ross Homes - Administrative law is probably the least predictable of all legal branches.

For all practical purposes the code is whatever their interpretation of the code is. The existence of multiple levels of interpretation doesn't mean that code interpretation is always accurate and consistent.

The effectiveness of any review board is going to depend on the current dynamics of that board. Some review boards conduct independent oversight, others simply rubber stamp field assessments, and some few seem biased against field assessments.

The Mike Holt Forums and the Terry Love Forums are full of posts on code compliant work that was flagged and the appeal was rejected.

In my previous life I had to deal with different regulatory agencies quite often and I honestly believe that you sometimes are more beholden to a good night's sleep than any regulation.

A code exception would be one where the code states "or as approved by building official." So as an example, mounting a deck ledger to veneer brick, Simpson has a bracket to allow that connection, and has done the engineering and testing to publish papers attesting to that fact. So if you submit those, you might get an "exception" to the code. Otherwise, anything else substantial would fall into the variance process. Note this is different than an inspector (or plan review) not catching something, or "overlooking" something on site that will not create other ramifications, because you have stuffed their mouth with donuts and it affected their vision.

I would suggest looking into the code more deeply as you may not be familiar, Chapter 3 (303,304,305,306,310,311) of IRC and local amendments (which shouldn't affect this chapter). If you can't have 50% of partitioned floor area @7', do not have windows meeting Emergency Escape & Rescue (different than your stair egress), or egress path (e.g. riser/treads, width, rails), then a habitable space is moot.

If your ceiling height is set from a collar tie, that could possibly be raised. If you plan on insulating, there is a lot of learning to do based on the way things are constructed. But you are free to update finishes for a nice storage room. If you start adding a lot of outlets and mood lighting though, when you sell they may consider that as crossing the line to have the opportunity to be habitable, which could raise some flags.

@PN _Bos basement ceiling height can be 6'-4" below obstructions like pipes, ducts, and beams.

Sissyphus - opinions don’t matter. Intent doesn’t matter. Letter of the law is all that matters. I’m only asking for informed people to chime in with knowledge of building codes and permitting and what is legally possible. I find it hard to believe I can’t insulate my attic. I find it hard to believe I can’t put flooring in my attic. I find it hard to believe I can’t put lights in my attic. I’m pretty sure I van do all of those things even if I don’t have 7ft ceilings. So the question is, what can be done without a permit, what needs a permit, and if you can’t quality for the blanket permit to create finished living space, can you still get piecemeal permits to improve the space in other ways.

3onthetree, thank you. That’s a helpful answer. We do want add outlets up there so that things Ike a vacuum can be run to keep the area clean and so we can keep a Molekule air purifier running up there, so we’ll have to look into how many is too many. Whatever we build. We plan to make it to code. For example, we have a second form of egress (large window that leads to a large flat area of our roof) that we will enhance. We can do everything to code in terms of safety, we simply can’t meet the ceiling height requirement. So we will forgo creating livable space that will be added to the sq ft of our house and marketers if we ever sell the house (no plans to do that for many years). But I do want to make sure we don’t create what constitutes “unpermitted work” that would create a big problem if we ever do sell.

"No one is fooled by an expensive insulated closet attic. The living space intent is there. That means that any buyer will look double askance at the house, as a whole, knowing there is more DIY unpermitted work likely to be less visible."

In my experience, having sold more homes than most people, most buyers don't really give a crap about unpermitted work.

Buyers are always wooed by the appearance of the work and how they see themselves using it. If you have a stylish room with good finishes buyers are usually going to assume the work was done well. Of course, some few will walk away but strong visual appeal and usefulness will attract 10 buyers for every one that cares about permits.

---

Please note, I am not saying you can make a visually appealing 6.5' tall space, I don't think you can, but the assertion that buyers are then going to question the rest of the home is counter to my experience.

Spray foaming the attic will make the whole house more comfortable- so that is a win. Adding osb subfloors and some basic lighting and a couple outlets will make it usable storage which everyone wants. As everyone has pointed it will never be habitable space.

We do want add outlets up there so that things Ike a vacuum can be run to keep the area clean and so we can keep a Molekule air purifier running up there, so we’ll have to look into how many is too many. Whatever we build. We plan to make it to code. For example, we have a second form of egress (large window that leads to a large flat area of our roof) that we will enhance. We can do everything to code in terms of safety, we simply can’t meet the ceiling height requirement. So we will forgo creating livable space that will be added to the sq ft of our house and marketers if we ever sell the house (no plans to do that for many years). But I do want to make sure we don’t create what constitutes “unpermitted work” that would create a big problem if we ever do sell.

What you are describing is probably illegal. As a general rule you can't find legal paths to illegal results. So, you can't simultaneously say that you just want to insulate and drywall a storage space and then go on to describe all the other ways you are going to comply with habitability requirements so it will be habitable space.

You can put bigger windows on your house, you can add electric to storage space, you can add insulation where you want it, you can drywall a storage space, etc., and you can get permits where necessary to do those things to a storage space. However, when you start calling your bigger window an egress window it might start making people think you are doing something illegal.

Bry911 - thanks for the info. My thought behind complying with the code was to just make sure we did things the right way. If something pushes us too far towards doing something illegal, we can clearly skip that.

Btw, bry911, what really is habitable space? The way I’m thinking about it is that you either have legally permitted living space, which is then tacked on to the sq. ft. of the house and baked into town appraisal and taxed. When you go to sell your house, you can market the larger size. If your space can’t be permitted due to code, then you simply have improved space but it won’t be added to sq.ft. of house, it won’t be added to appraisal and you can’t market the extra space as living space. What am I missing?

As it stands right now, I have an 800 sq. ft. attic. I can put a bed up there and sleep there if I want (no matter how uncomfortable). Are you saying that doing so would be illegal and I can be arrested? I find that hard to believe. I can put dumbbells up then and exercise, is that criminal? That just doesn’t make sense to me???

My local authority technically requires an electrical permit to change out a single existing outlet, without any wiring changes. Light fixtures and switches are OK, but outlets require a permit. Likewise faucets can be changed and drains repaired but replacing the sink requires a permit. However, if I was to walk into city hall and request to buy a permit to change out that outlet, they would probably take me to the side and try to determine if I was mentally stable!

In my area, small improvements like adding an outlet or two, putting down some attic flooring or adding insulation aren't commonly permitted. If insulation was part of a major remodel or addition, then it would be listed on the permit and inspected but otherwise not. Drywalling the attic wouldn't get anyone too excited if it was done to make it clean storage like firetaping and quick coat of paint. However, if the drywall gets a level 5 finish and painted with Farrow and Ball, that isn't storage space.

If you are considering spray foam insulation, I would ask the contractor about local practices. They are most likely to know if the authorities expect permits for the work they typically perform.

My thought behind complying with the code was to just make sure we did things the right way. If something pushes us too far towards doing something illegal, we can clearly skip that.

Let me begin by saying, that I don't really care about permitted and inspected work. I am having an opening widened, and inspections are going to move the installation of an engineer designed beam from a one day project, to a month long project with three days of paying workers. I have little respect for permitting process. So I could absolutely not care any less if you your project is permitted.

However, in your case your intent is clearly not allowed by code so for all practical purposes you can't achieve a space that is to code in all ways but one. Your building department can reject your proposal at any time based on the intent to ignore the habitable space requirement. I am not telling you not to do it. I am just trying to alter the way you are thinking about doing it.

what really is habitable space?

Any spaces in a residence used for living, sleeping, eating, or cooking. If your intent is to use the space as living space, you can't end-run around the code by calling it an improved space.

As it stands right now, I have an 800 sq. ft. attic. I can put a bed up there and sleep there if I want (no matter how uncomfortable). Are you saying that doing so would be illegal and I can be arrested?

Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. However, there is some problem with the binary classification of legal vs. illegal. Most days I drive a road with a 55 mph speed limit that I actually feel is unsafe to drive at less than 65 mph, (cars will pass you in unsafe ways). So I break the law most days when I speed up to 65 mph, however, I am doubtful that I will be going to jail for it.

I find that hard to believe. I can put dumbbells up then and exercise, is that criminal? That just doesn’t make sense to me???

Having a standard height requirement for living space doesn't make a lot of sense to me, it seems like there should be an exception for shorter individuals. Having rather arbitrary speed limits doesn't make sense to me, it seems like there should be a modification for current driving conditions. Jay-walking being illegal seems completely ridiculous to me. Come to think of it, the government telling you what indigenous plants you can grow in your garden seems ridiculous to me. But here we are...

@Joseph Corlett, LLC

Yeah, and it was a big 'un too. My countertop customers submitted their existing ceiling joists on their drawings and inspection signed the drawings as approved. They built the second story on those joists and the inspector red tagged. They showed him the signature on the drawings that his office approved. Too bad, because the code is what the inspector says it is on the day he says it.

The inspector didn't make up the code and didn't change the code, he/she simply inspected the work in progress and determined that the construction didn't comply with the applicable code. The folks who reviewed the plans as part of the permitting process (which is not to be confused with field inspection) apparently missed an important detail. Unfortunately, their oversight doesn't provide the builder or homeowner with a "get out of jail free card." A field inspector can't--nor should they--endorse something as code compliant if it isn't. An inspector can't add to the code, either. If they fail something, they need to cite the specific code requirement that the construction fails to meet.

Jeremy:

What goes on in your attic is your business. It's like breaking the speed limit; it's only illegal if you get caught. This is not to be misconstrued as my endorsing building outside the law.

Yo, Charles...

Thanks everyone. My goal is to build within the law. I don’t want to do any unpermitted work and jeopardize the marketability of our home. That said, I do struggle with the concept of intent. I’m not sure I understand how a permit can be legally withheld if the work performed is done to code. If we put electric outlets in our attic, how can an inspector be the judge if we are going to use the space for storage or running a cult. Intent should be what the homeowner says. Ultimately, we want to build to code and get the proper permits, we are fine not getting the credit for the additional sq.ft.

My goal is to build within the law.

I don't believe your goal is to build within the law. Why do you need an egress window if you don't intend to use the space for living? I suspect you are trying to use the letter of the law to circumvent the spirit of the law and you are not blazing new trails in that.

I don’t want to do any unpermitted work and jeopardize the marketability of our home. That said, I do struggle with the concept of intent. I’m not sure I understand how a permit can be legally withheld if the work performed is done to code.

My neighbor was getting a permit for a basement remodel and his permit to add a full bath and wetbar was denied because his house is not zoned for an accessory apartment. He was planning an inground pool and wanted the full bath to have direct access to the patio and pool area.

I assure you that if you start calling the new window an egress window in your permits, they are not going to be fooled. They may not care, so you might be fine, but they can simply deny it and say you are trying to create living areas and that is all.

,on intent and all that i am sure that whatever happens you could end up paying ....in some way ....for any mistakes...just like we all do... but i personally would really consider some nice clean ...easily accessible....well lit ...sheetrock finished...storage ....in the attic.... a plus in any house i purchased...

I don't mind skirting around rules when possible, but before thinking about converting this into a living space you need to consider the flooring and support systems below the attic.

My sister had the space above her garage converted into an office. The space was originally constructed for light storage purposes, not living space. It was tall enough, but she had to get the floor joists reinforced and they had to add a post in the garage to support the weight.