1. How big of a dorm room do you want?

2. How big of a dorm room do you think you need?

3. how much are you willing to reasonably pay for a first time dorm room?

4. Are you willing to take a somewhat smaller dorm room for a better price to get into dorm room ownership?

5. Is a yard of beer absolutely required?

6. How many cows are a heard?

7. How many windows are a must?

8. Wood, Brick, Cinder Block, Concrete, Diploma? Possibility of grad school?

9. I'm assuming a separate dorm room, how close to graduation?

Maybe, maybe not. I certainly do wish I had a dollar for the very many I know in trades, "uneducated" in terms of the statement and happily bossing and directly paying a someone.

This is different than what I said. Those with college degrees generally rise faster and get paid more in the trades. That is different than saying everyone who has risen and gets paid more has a college degree. A college degree is absolutely not necessary to excel in the trades, but those with college degrees do tend to excel in the trades.

College is not simply job training. I am not sure when we decided that the only value of college is a job, but I believe that attitude is problematic. The case has been made many times that kids in primary and secondary schools see little value in education and we wonder why that might be as talk about the only benefit of education being the pay you get when done. Is it any wonder that students disregard any subject they don't see as directly beneficial?

There are dozens of classes that directly correlate to the trades and running a business. Where students learn things like Porter's five forces, competitive advantage strategies, the invisible hand, supply and demand curve, price elasticity, deadweight loss, equilibrium prices, Job order costing, predetermined overhead rates, relevant costing, business law, supply chain management, communications classes, etc. Then there are other classes that have value even if not directly, history, languages, etc.

I am not discouraging people from going directly into the trades, but we shouldn't create a dilemma of either going directly into the trades or going to college. There are several viable options for doing both and there is a benefit for those who do both.

I'll pick #2 and #5 for 2 cents mark. I'd live in a small camper van and rent a driveway for all I care. I'm there to get a educated and comfort isn't important or required to achieve my goals.

Many beer yards are required mark, so I can pick up the empties and sell the aluminum after all the parties. I'd also try and secure contracts with the house bunnies to pick up the empties and clean the yard for additional cash, 2 cash cows in one. This cow isn't looking for popularity and one cow doesn't apply to #6, unless I took a van mate. At that point I would refer to myself and the van mate as a pen of pigs, and as you know I'm allowed to self identify with anything I want in college. So 2 pigs in the pen to go.

It also explains my selected identity because pigs are still smart enough to try and run away from certain slaughter while cows blindly follow the heard right into the slaughter house.

(Bry911, feel free to use my original philosophy quote above if you wish).

On a more serious note I'd like to say; "You can earn a college degree but doesn't mean you can apply it in life". The recipe for success is Imagination, knowledge and Common sense with a healthy dose of ambition in that order. Elbert Einstein said; "Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited, whereas imagination embraces the entire world, stimulating progress, giving birth to evolution." A college degree is not something which automatically guarantees a job and In most cases just gives a person the knowledge to do a repetitive task in a highly complex occupation. A vocational school does the same on a lesser level, and at a lower price. Some with low retention of knowledge, or low IQ, which just measures short and long term memory and puzzle solving, can't measure imagination or common sense.

BTW there is one here I believe fits Einstein's example of genius.

"I'm not going to comb over the internet gathering stats that you won't care about."

I don't think this is a stat that's out there to find - there are very few. I posed the question to my succinct vet relative in an email over the weekend. A person whose journey to becoming a board certified specialist involved two internships and a three year residency (five years after vet school) working with students, faculty, and trainees at four different US vet schools. I received the reply this morning

"Have you ever known a vet who didn't have a bachelors degree before beginning vet school?"

"Nope".

Yes, it's anecdotal. But as with your comrade in this thread who likes to make up points and then press them as if relevant, while vet schools may or may not require a 4 year degree of applicants, applying without one in a very competitive environment isn't a good strategy for success. Acceptance rates are around 10%. It's human nature, the first pass through the mass of applications must be oriented toward "which ones can we take out of consideration to reduce the stack". Figure out what happens to those with obviously inferior academic qualifications.

Mark, HAHAHA!

I think this thread went astray right after, "I have some questions."

I feel like I can answer the questions again, after aging another 20 years just getting to this point.

"It also explains my selected identity because pigs are still smart enough to try and run away from certain slaughter while cows blindly follow the heard right into the slaughter house."

Gottta agree on that. Hence the saying: "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes time, and annoys the pig" ( a lot of that here, lol )

"Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited, whereas imagination embraces the entire world, stimulating progress, giving birth to evolution."

Einstein left out "persistence" ( below )

My father died with that in his wallet. Yellowed to fragility after 60 odd years in its leather cocoon. Still true, and still my favorite.

Oh......... lets not leave out "keep Buggering On. .....same thing: )

uhhhhhhhhh and WHAT was the question, again?!

What . . . is you name?

What . . . is your quest?

What is the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow?

31 to 40 miles per hour........... ( I assume the female is faster ...lol ) Do I get the car?

Or..........

In the end, it's concluded that the airspeed velocity of a (European) unladen swallow is about 24 miles per hour or 11 meters per second.Jul 7, 2013

More important? What about the coconuts? Mmmmmmm ?

You don't want the car. It's not even a manual. No stick, no fun.

And WHATEVER happened to the OP?

^^^^ The OP’s never come back once Bry911 starts their 4,000 word posts. Its gotten so far off track and ridiculous.

You have to be on track to get off track.

True! Let me re-phrase it. now it has turned into the typical ”Ill keep arguing the same points over and over until everyone agrees with me”. And I’ll keep repeating the fact that I have a PHD!! 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄

@suedonim75, y'know what they say: You can tell a man from Harvard... but you can't tell him much.

220+ plus posts and still no real interaction from the op.

Which tells us we are idiots lol or love talking to OURSELVES.

Personally I choose "love talking to OURSELVES".

We could certainly be BOTH.

"And I’ll keep repeating the fact that I have a PHD!!"

Give me a break... in more than 40 posts over a five day stretch I have mentioned PhD twice, both times for context, and the first time was yesterday.

But thank you for both your amazing insights and your imagination.

There are some here, all men, I believe, who play the school yard game of little boys, "I can p** farther than you". That is coupled with the need to have the last word, and it's really boring. I call them out whenever they get into it.

Yes, hall monitor you certainly do... and I for one appreciate all the work you do at Houzz moderating these threads.

Better to stand up and call it out than let a few run the entire playground

Hi,

I didn't read any of the above threads, IDK what anyone is going on about admittedly, scrolled and it looks like fights about schools?

Anyway we live in the NYC area and our realtor actually called yesterday to thank me for a review I wrote, she informed me that in our area at least she is finding an uptick of younger people looking to come back to the city "now that it's safe."

She said a lot of these people were renters who fled, moved in with friends & family in the burbs last year, and now looking to buy closer to the city, first-time buyers.

She said what they wanted was location, private outdoor space (preferably a yard but a patio/roof deck would do) but most of all a "second room" someplace, anything, even a huge walk-in closet convertible, but something with "walls and a door." While square footage is preferable it isn't a deal breaker here.

W/D in unit.

Many people are starting to return to the high rise living, they all left as they didn't want to share amenities such as a gym and pool during covid.

Better to stand up and call it out than let a few run the entire playground

I completely agree with you. In fact, this same thing happened at a gathering I had once. I was having some acquaintances over and in one room (people were gathering in about five rooms) four people were having a lively discussion about sports. I was so relieved when another guest invited herself into that room and explained to them that they were not allowed to talk about sports in my house. A rule I didn't even know I had.

That really took the pressure off me. I mean with it being my gathering in my home people might have assumed that I would be the person to set the rules, and wow... wouldn't that be a mistake on their part. So really, as someone who has benefited from people moderating things they had absolutely no business moderating... I celebrate your efforts.

ETA: OMFG THIS IS OBVIOUSLY SARCASM! Of course it is made up, It was dripping with sarcasm. I would never be happy about people deciding they get to control the conversation at my house. If you don't like what is being talked about in my house, talk to me or leave.

Which is good advice here. Instead of deciding that you get to moderate this board, contact the people whose job it is to moderate these boards and let them decide, or just leave.

Signed Bry911 - pompous and self-important but also apparently in good company... /waves at @sushipup1 & @suedonim75

ETA2: @

@Elmer J Fudd - I moved the comment to be with the post, just in case someone else couldn't spot obvious sarcasm...

Wow, so you want to control the conversations in real life too, not surprised. "I was so relieved that someone told them they couldn't talk about something I didn't like". This story doesn't make you look any less pompous and self-absorbed.

Well said. It smells like a made up scenario anyway, something this person is known to do. Who cares what guests talk about?

ETA - also known to edit to change comments after the fact, without disclosing having done so. I've experienced that many times in the past.

ETA#2

I got an email from the system with this passage quoted. Now, apparently removed by the author. You can't make this stuff up, it's just as I said.

begin copy/paste

bry911 said:@Elmer J Fudd
Of course it was made up! It was dripping with sarcasm...

end copy/paste

I just wanted to check in to see if OP had replied, at least to the first comments, but ended up being quite entertained. I’ve never seen a post go off track so fast, for so long, how dug in people become and the time spent to do so. Thank goodness for good humour and Mark you always provide such sharp comic relief!

In my house we limit the conversation to religion and politics. If anyone shows up for social gatherings, it usually quiets down after the ambulance and firetrucks leave.

The OP never showed up again to our social gathering either.

New York city is safe? "now that it's safe."

Release from the NYPD:

"For the month of March 2021, New York City saw increases in index crimes, with the exception of robbery and burglary. Overall index crime rose 2.4% compared with March 2020, driven by a 36% increase in murder (34 v. 25) and a 35.1% increase in grand larceny auto (666 v. 493). There was a 11.8% decrease in robbery (842 v. 955) in March 2021, and a 8.5% reduction in burglary (919 v. 1004) compared to the previous year. Felonious assault saw a 0.9% increase compared to March 2020 (1643 v. 1629), and shooting incidents increased to 99 v. 56 in March 2020 (+76.8%)."

Janie, I own a bridge in brooklyn I'll sell to you cheap.

Kevin,

LOL!

"Safe" in the eyes of many in regards to covid 19.

As of today Governor Cumo has 100% lifted ALL commercial and social covid restrictions, hence, the part where ppl are returning to high rise living. In fact, he's having fireworks tonight all across NY State.

Crime?

That's another story. Very little law and order in NYC these days.

And I'll take that bridge!

Esp if it's in expensive Brooklyn!

Did that thread go astray too?

"However, the assertion that professors are not accustomed to having their comments challenged and errors caught is obviously from someone who has never submitted a single thing for publication in a journal or done a presentation at a school or conference."

You couldn't be more very, very wrong.

"I spent years in the oil and gas industry, which is why I lived in the Middle East."

I spent a number of years as an expat too but in a more desirable location - Europe (not the UK). I had occasion to interact with people who worked in the oil patch, with a couple of majors and a few for Aramco. I have to say that like many in the broader expat population, the longer people spend abroad, the more out of touch they become with the real world on the ground in their home countries (whatever they are). Not unlike college instructors.

Never argue with educators or liberals. Usually, you are arguing with the same person : ) I'll wait for the backlash on that one. .......

PS., it always begins as benign conversation, points made that can not then be defended when countered with facts,, and it almost always goes down the hill from there. Don't take it personally. I am including family. . ..yes "indeedy" @ Mark Bischak.

I've considered the holidays in a locale of tropical clime. ....can we still say "holiday"? Think I will have some Graeters Choc chip salted caramel (french pot )ice cream and sit back....hahahhaha

The BEST. Maybe someone will actually agree.

Stays perfect serving temp in the freezer. Must be the fat content. Like no other...........

@JAN MOYER, let's be more general and say, "never argue with someone who already knows everything." There are a number of those around.

Also, coffee icecream FTW! But I definitely wouldn't say no to salted caramel.

My Husband is a Superintendant for Contracting company that only employs Union/Trade Carpenters. No one has a college degree, except the Architect. He has 2 bosses, 1 of them is the owner, neither have any college education. There is nothing they could learn in college that would make them better at their jobs. Joining the trades was an alternative to college. And I guarantee they make a hell of a lot more than a lot of college graduates. They also have good benefits and a pension.

Yes, but do they know "how many windows are a must?"

Suedonim75 my brothers never went to university and one is a carpenter and project manager now and one an IT manager for a tech company. I’m certain they make more than me as a teacher with three degrees. Alas we don’t just work for our pay cheques. Thank goodness my partner decided to pursue law. ;)

I applied to one college - was on a road trip with my brother and drove past IUP. Stopped and picked up an application. Completed it in the car while we drove and dropped it off on the return trip. My parents were on my back about not going to college. I picked the major Human Resource Management because it sounded interesting and was a new major. Didn't have a clue what it was - thought it was about managing people.

I have never worked inside my major. I desperately needed a job at the time when companies were beginning to accept IBM PCs as the future. I applied for a job, was asked if I knew how to use a PC and answered with a convincing "yes". I had never turned on on or seen one, but I was confident that I could learn before they could figure out that I didn't know what I was doing.

A few years later I bought my own PC and got the trial version of MS Access and that was the start of a long career in data architecture and data analytics.

I can not so proudly say I majored in snack bar, cute preppy type boys and managed to 1.6 myself out of a local community college in one year. Dad was furious capital F. . "You will end up in a trailer with some idiot!!!" What are you going to DO?'

"I LOVE WORK. I AM GOING TO WORK. You didn't even go to college!!"

Apparently my dad had forgotten the words he said to me when I was fifteen,. He was waiting on a check from someone. I asked why don't you just work for someone, somewhere, like everyone else's father?? He replied.......

"The best job on earth is the one where you write your OWN paycheck......... I write mine" .

.For anyone in any endeavor, The BOSS is the customer, the patient, the user ......etc. Nothing is bought, everything is indeed... sold.

Now and then I think: what might have been - if not for that lousy 1.6 GPA. Holy S _ _ _

I'd probably be a teacher............omg no.

Jan don’t worry based on what you say here you’d never make it as a teacher and are doing what you should. A huge number of teachers get out in the first five years for several reasons. One, being entirely not suited to the role. Two, the pay which in some places is horrendous. But mostly it’s the ongoing terrible way we are treated. From admin and the entire system to the general public, parents and students. See this thread many times over. Really many professions are treated poorly. Teachers aren’t alone by far.

I understand that many people feel a personal call to become a teacher and get great satisfaction from it. I'm not familiar with what happens in Canada and I'll restrict my remarks to what I see in my US setting but the fact is, the job market doesn't place a high value on the occupation. So salaries are low. When salaries are too low for a given job type, job seekers go elsewhere. But that doesn't happen with teachers, jobs do tend to get filled. Districts don't need to pay more to get applicants.

Why?

In my exposure to teachers and schools, it appears that these jobs are often directions chosen as a last resort for people needing gainful employment when their college years end. Classes are not difficult, demands within the programs are not too high for most to accomplish. Career redirects for people unhappy in other occupations. Job opportunities for those who weren't able to pursue other directions in their education and are relatively uncompetitive as job seekers.

If teaching jobs paid more, we'd get a better incoming supply. If civil service-type rules of job protection didn't apply, poor performers could be dismissed and (hopefully) replaced with more capable souls. None of that is likely to ever happen so we have what we have.

In my exposure to teachers and schools, it appears that these jobs are often directions chosen as a last resort for people needing gainful employment when their college years end. Classes are not difficult, demands within the programs are not too high for most to accomplish.

WOAH! I've agreed with you on almost everything you've said, until this. I couldn't disagree more. Every teacher that I know, had always wanted to be a teacher. They knowingly went into the profession knowing that they weren't doing it to become rich. They chose this profession because they 1. Liked working with kids, and 2. Wanted to make a difference. None of them chose it "as a last resort".

suedomim (can I call you Pseu?),

we all have different views and different experiences. Mine come from a fair amount of inside perspectives, of those and from those working as teachers and instructors. Some described up above but this thread has become unwieldy. Maybe it's the area I'm in or the people I know. I can turn it down a notch to just say that with my own kid's educations and from people in and out of the instruction gig I've known and experienced, very few of our society's best and brightest find their way into teaching (at any level). For many reasons that don't matter much because the result is what it is.

1.6 GPA ?!?!??! There's another person that had more fun in college than I did.

I had occasion to interact with individuals who labored within the oil patch, with more than one majors and a few for Aramco. I actually have to mention that like many in the broader ex-pat populace, the longer people spend abroad

I had a LOT of fun, Mark......

Perfect house, good price and size

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/593-County-Road-627-Bloomsbury-NJ-08804/40118021_zpid/