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jessica_milburn

Full depth cracks in brand new concrete driveway

5 years ago

I'd like advice from any concrete professional on the acceptability of the concrete job completed at our new construction home. Concrete cracks - this I understand. We had a 20ft wide concrete driveway poured and within 4 days there were 5 - 6 full width AND full depth cracks.

The expansion joints were cut in on day 6. Is this acceptable? If not, how do I determine who is at fault? Is it the prep work, the concrete provider/pourer, or the finishers?













Comments (14)

  • 5 years ago

    Any pics of the base prep?

  • 5 years ago

    Unfortunately I don't have any pics of the base prep before the pour.


  • PRO
    5 years ago

    Cracking of concrete is an inherent characteristic of the material. Control joints are installed in an effort to encourage cracking along the joints, but concrete doesn't always cooperate. Where control joints are sawn vs. tooled or metal-keyed joints are used, best practice (per the Portland Cement Association) is to saw cut them within 24 hrs. +/- after placing the concrete. Driveways wider than 12 ft. need a control joint down the center. That said, there is no way to know if the crack in the photo could have been avoided by saw cutting within 24 hrs. of placing the concrete.

  • 5 years ago

    Just for reference, here is what the residential performance guidelines most builders in my area adhere to has to say:

  • PRO
    5 years ago

    Saying concrete cracks is like saying fish swim and birds fly. Get on over it, please.

  • PRO
    5 years ago

    @Joseph Corlett, LLC,


    While cracking is an inherent characteristic of concrete, the driveway is over 12 ft. in width and the joints weren't cut within the 24 hour timeframe that constitutes best practice per PCA guidelines.


    I don't know how many concrete driveways you install each year in your sink replacement business. I admit that I only install four to five each year which isn't a huge database. That said, the fact that the OP's contractor waited six days before cutting the control joints raises a legitimate question about cracking.

    Jessica Milburn thanked Charles Ross Homes
  • 5 years ago

    The base underneath this looks suspect - control joints or not.........

  • PRO
    5 years ago

    It is difficult to infer what the base layer underneath a concrete driveway that is 20 ft in width is like from a photo at the very edge.

  • PRO
    5 years ago

    "I don't know how many concrete driveways you install each year in your sink replacement business."


    Charles:


    This is the logical fallacy of relevance, ad hominem circumstantial. You must address my argument, not my circumstances. Readers deserve better.

  • PRO
    5 years ago

    @Joseph Corlett, LLC,


    Your reply to the OP :


    "Saying concrete cracks is like saying fish swim and birds fly. Get on over it, please."


    dismisses their concern without providing any relevant insight based on your knowledge or experience. Is there something in your wealth of contracting experience, or your command of physics or chemistry to suggest that waiting six days to saw cut control joints is either a good practice or isn't relevant to the cracking observed?












  • PRO
    5 years ago

    Charles:


    The American Concrete Institute agrees with me:


    "American Concrete Institute touches on the issue of cracking concrete in their American Concrete Institute manual, ACI 302. 1-40:

    “Even with the best floor designs and proper construction, it is unrealistic to expect crack-free and curl-free floors. Consequently, every owner should be advised by both the designer and contractor that it is normal to expect some amount of cracking and curling on every project, and that such occurrences do not necessarily reflect adversely on either the adequacy of the floor’s design or the quality of its construction”


    Eighth post down, seventh paragraph.

  • 5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    @Joseph Corlett, LLC


    Again, this doesn't address my questioning of the standard time frame between the pouring of the driveway and the cutting of the control joints. Thank you for your insight or lack there of. You will see in my original post that I, too, agree with The American Concrete Institute as I mentioned 'Concrete cracks - this I understand'. Good day sir.

  • PRO
    5 years ago

    @Joseph Corlett, LLC


    Cracking is an inherent characteristic of concrete. The reference you provided is an industry catch-all that makes concrete cracking nobody's fault. The OP's not debating that concrete cracks. She raised the question as to whether sawing control joints six days after placing concrete was appropriate. It is not consistent with best practices as per the Portland Cement Association. Here's their take on cutting control joints:


    "Joints may also be sawed into the hardened concrete surface. It is important to understand that the longer sawing is delayed the higher the potential for cracks to establish themselves before sawing is complete. This means that any cracks that occur before the concrete is sawed will render the sawed joint ineffective. Timing is very important. Joints should be sawed as soon as the concrete will withstand the energy of sawing without raveling or dislodging aggregate particles. For most concrete mixtures, this means sawing should be completed within the first six to 18 hours and never delayed more than 24 hours."


    If you want additional details on PCA's recommendations you can click on the link below:


    https://www.cement.org/learn/concrete-technology/concrete-construction/contraction-control-joints-in-concrete-flatwork#:~:text=Joints%20should%20be%20sawed%20as,delayed%20more%20than%2024%20hours.


    While we can't say with 100% certainty that sawing the control joints within 24 hours would have prevented all of the cracks, we can say with 100% certainty that sawing them after six days is well outside the recommended timeframe. Further, given that cracking had already occurred by day six, cutting the control joints was like closing the barn door after the horse is out.

  • PRO
    5 years ago

    @Joseph Corlett, LLC,


    Given your penchant for Latin, I thought you might have offered the OP a mea culpa. Oh, well, scire modicum periculosum.