Judijunebug,

Wow, your garden is going to be SPECTACULAR! The combinations you have chosen sound stunning. I would absolutely go with the white crepe. The black foliage and snow white flowers next to the blush of ALM would be jaw dropping! Did you get your Agastache Blue Boas from Annie’s Annuals? I was on that site earlier and looking at the same plant. :-) And many congratualations on your ALM score! I have a young ALM in my baby rose nursery, and I am thrilled to have her gorgeous and deliciously scented little self growing in my life. Carol

I'm with Sheila...

Thank you for your input! Yes, Carol, I got my Blue Boa plants from Annie's Annuals. I love that place and used to shop there occasionally when I lived in Sacramento. Now that I'm in Arizona, I have to get plants shipped, but they are so good and my plants arrive in pristine shape every time. I only bought 3 of the Blue Boa this spring because I wanted to trial them in my garden before I commit to the crazy number I'm going to need for the border. Same thing with the Nepeta. Both performed well, so I'm going that route. The only problem with the agastache is that they all tend to have brittle stems and break off at the base at times. Still, I love them and they shoot out fresh growth quickly. As for the color scheme, I can easily see both the white and the deep purple looking good with ALMD, so I guess I'll have to make up my mind and then be happy with my choice! I love the shell pink against those black leaves, but I was pretty sure that color wouldn't look good with the ALMD. From the pictures, it looks to me like her color leans more lavender. But I couldn't decide whether I should contrast lighter or darker. I have sketched and re-sketched that area with so many plant choices and feel like I am finally narrowing my choices and feeling good about it.
Now, white or purple Black Diamond...

Why not both? A border doesn't have to be perfectly symmetrical in every way to look good.

White or purple or both will look wonderful! I don’t think there are any wrong answers here, so whatever you decide will be perfect. I love Annie’s, too! I live in wetter, cooler OR but find a lot of Annie’s plants are really good in my climate. I think sampling new choices before buying in mass is very wise. 🤞 that everything works well. I look forward to photos, please! :-) Carol

Thanks for the kind wishes! I hope too that it all comes together nicely. The photos will be a good long while in coming because I am sure it will take some time till my roses and bushes are very photogenic.

• @judijunebugarizonazn8 how neat! Congratulations! I'm eager to see your results with that many ALmD! It will certainly SMELL good! One question about the Sunshine Ligustrum... do you know if its root system is as invasive as traditional ligustrum? "Privet" has a well deserved reputation for choking out surrounding plants with its massive, dense root system. I'm not sure which zone you are in there in AZ, but have you seen the Sunset Gold Coleonema (Breath of Heaven) around where you are? I don't know if they would thrive there or not, but if they are suitable there and easily obtainable, I think you might find their root system SIGNIFICANTLY easier to live with. Plus, the plants SMELL so good! They are soft; move nicely in the breeze; flower in pale pink, tiny flowers and are easily either sheered so they are more "tailored" and dense or allowed to become more wispy. Keeping them whatever size and shape you desire is EASY. https://www.smgrowers.com/products/plants/plantdisplay.asp?plant_id=421

Thank you, roseseek. I'm really excited to get this border all put together. If these roses smell as good as everyone says, I'll be spending a lot of time in my backyard breathing deeply. :)
As for the sunshine ligustrum, I do have my fears. But with all of the other options I pursued, I hit roadblocks...The coleonema sunset gold was my first choice for the gold factor in my border, but I really don't think I can pull it off here in my zone 8 climate. Some information on this plant led me to believe it just might work, but the people at the nurseries I spoke to all told me my chances of it surviving here were quite slim. I used to grow the green variety known as Breath of Heaven in Sacramento and I loved it. As you say, it's beautiful, smells great and is so easy to care for and keep tidy. Maybe you have some more info on it's hardiness range? Could it perhaps handle short periods of time in 10 to 15 degrees? I would love if you could convince me that it would work! I had a hard time giving it up and opting for the ligustrum.

@judijunebugarizonazn8 I'm glad you know the diosma/coleonema. They are so wonderful! Could you sort of squint and pretend variegated myrtus communis compacta was "golden" enough? Oh! THIS! https://www.monrovia.com/la-barbe-bleue-153-bluebeard.html Golden Caryopteris! No, I'm sorry, I only have experience with such things in Zones 9b to 10a. I can pretty much tell you what will resist triple digits for weeks on end, but deep cold is beyond my "pay grade".

You're thinking of all the same plants I considered! I have Li'l Miss Sunshine Caryopteris in another bed close to the house. They look very similar to La Barbe Bleue. They do wonderful in the heat, have a lovely habit and golden color and are tough as nails. So why don't I use them? Because they aren't evergreen and I really don't know if the bed will make me smile during the winter months if there's no life there. I can put up with the agastache and nepeta going to sleep for several months if I have a little bit of life there, as in some shrubs that stay awake. Does anyone here have any experience with Sunshine Ligustrum who could weigh in on this? I don't want thugs who are going to be robbing my perennials planted close by, so I'd love to hear any experience, positive or negative. Now is the time to change my mind.

Have you tried Choisya ternata ’Sundance’? Will it grow well in your climate? Evergreen (gold) with fragrant white blooms! Carol

@judijunebugarizonazn8 I'm with Kim (roseseek). Privet impoverishes the soil, and is best grown away from other shrubs. Hedging is the traditional use for privet, and still the best use. But I can heartily recommend two or three other golden shrubs, all evergreen.

One is Lonicera nitida 'Baggeson's Gold'. Loves full sun. Maixmum height is about 5', and easily kept lower. It's slightly drought tolerant. The leaves are tiny, so it has a very delicate effect.

Next, and my favorite, is Illicium parviflorum 'Florida Sunshine'. It's VERY bright yellow. Evergreen, max height is about 5', and the leaves are redolent of licorice/anise. It prefers afternoon shade, and shade in winter to prevent leaf burn (you might not have this problem in z8). Medium water needs. It's NOT edible, unfortunately, even though it smells like it should be.

I originally was just going to compare the illicium to Choisya "Sundance", so I thought I'd just add that one to the list, lol. It's not *quite* hardy here, though it squeaks by most years. Should be no problem in Z8. Mine is in full sun, and gets little supplemental water. Illicium 'Florida Sunshine' is still my favorite, just because of the year-round fragrance of the leaves. However, while it's in bloom, the choisya smells heavenly, too, of orange blossoms.

All three plants are basically care free if sited correctly.

John

Those are interesting, John! Well, there is always Golden Euonymus. https://www.monrovia.com/golden-euonymus.html

@roseseek Hey Kim. Not sure which version of my above post you saw, because I just edited it three times, lol.

Thank you John, for all your recommendations! You guys have been a big help. I'm not very familiar with any of these, so I'm going to check them out and see if one of them might be just what I want. I really want to get this right the first time as I'm not fond of tearing out big bushes and replanting.

My only problem is this: last week I ordered my sunshine ligustrum shrubs and they have been shipped already. I suppose I can send them back, and I will if that's going to be best. . .but the area where these bushes will be planted receives all day sun, no afternoon shade. Once my trees in the yard are big enough to cast shade, that will help, but that's several years away. And some of these options you presented seem to really prefer some afternoon shade...
Ok, this is getting a bit difficult. I really, really like the Choisya Sundance, but will it take that amount of sun?

After checking your 3 suggestions out a little more thoroughly, John, I'm pretty sure the illicium will not be a good option, as beautiful as it is. Since I'm at fairly high elevation in Southern Arizona (4300 ft), our sunshine is pretty intense and it seems illicium won't tolerate that kind of sun. While we certainly don't see temperatures here like in Phoenix nor even in Tucson, the air here is super low humidity except during monsoons and as I said, the sunshine is intense, and in that area I really don't have afternoon shade. I will be installing a good watering system and I mulch fairly heavily with compost and chips, so many plants do quite well with care. The lonicera you suggested is beautifully lacy and I would probably go for that one ahead of the Choisya Sundance if I didn't see that different sites mention the color not being very golden in full sun, but more green instead. Ah! Maybe I'm overthinking this! Then I also see lots of articles on using sunshine ligustrum in mixed beds and borders...no warnings about them not getting along well with other perennials there...so maybe I could get away with those after all? It is a "dwarf" version, so maybe it won't be such a bully? But I don't have any experience with ligustrum of any sort and obviously you guys do...

@judijunebugarizonazn8 your ligustrum is "supposedly" a dwarf, but it IS a "privet" and I've never met any kind of privet which didn't have roots genetically designed to seek and destroy all hardscape, all plant life and all irrigation pipes in its universe. Because it will grow in ANYTHING and because NOTHING is nasty enough to actually EAT it, landscrapers plant it everywhere for literally every use...hedges, foundation plantings, shade trees, "lawn specimen", and they actually ADVERTISE the "lovely, scented white flowers" followed by the "beautiful blue berries!". Yes, I'm aware yours won't have those two faults, but it IS a "privet" and that was literally previously used to provide roots for lilacs. You garden is already going to be dealing with the intense afternoon sun (which gives me pause with ALmD) and zone 8 winter. Personally, I would avoid the ligustrum for that area. If you have other places you could use them for accent, erosion control, where nothing else will grow...I'd consider those other places. Let's see...very low humidity; intense, high-altitude sun.. Might you be able to plant crepe myrtle standards in front of the ALmD to provide them SOME afternoon respite from that intense sun? The plants will likely love it, the flowers? Perhaps not. The largest, most durable blooms are most often produced where there is protection from extreme heat from both wind, air and sun intensities. Not just for ALmD but any rose flowers. If you were considering something with heavy petal substance, that lovely waxy cuticle which makes exhibition and florist roses so wonderfully suited for those uses, the extreme UV and sun might not be a consideration. That waxy petal substance, which makes those types of blooms so durable and resistant to being molested and transported distances doesn't exist when the flower is well-scented so the petals are more fragile and likely to be fried in hot sun, high reflected heat, hot winds, etc. If you could provide anything to filter that intensity, it would definitely help.

@judijunebugarizonazn8 Now that I know more about your garden conditions, I agree my suggestions might not work, although I've not had trouble with L. 'Baggeson's Gold" greening out.

I agree with Kim that besides the ligustrum roots, your main problem is going to be that unrelenting high altitude sunshine. So I have another question or two. Which direction does your fence and/or the bed face? How deep front to back is the bed? Is there room to plant fast growing but lacy-canopied trees in FRONT of the bed, out in the lawn, for shade?

Robinia pseudoacacia 'Frisia' grows several feet per year up to 25' tall, yet is lacy enough to only create dappled shade, even directly under its canopy. Drought tolerant once established, it grows fast enough that you can soon begin to limb it up so that it doesn't interfere with viewing the bed. 'Frisia' is also bright yellow Spring through early summer, changing to chartreuse later. Autumn color is again brilliant yellow. For that matter, this tree could probably go IN the bed. It is deep-rooted, and shouldn't compete unduly with ALMD. It's just a suggestion, to get you thinking about possibilities. I'll wrack my brain for more once I know more about the bed orientation and your thoughts on adding shade.

Yes, I'm aware that the flowers of ALmD might not do the best during the hottest parts of our summer. But I understand that these roses take a few years of disbudding to encourage plant growth and my thought was that by the time they're ready to really bloom, by then my young shade trees will have put on enough growth to cast a bit of shade. I currently have two Sally Holmes roses in pots sitting in the same location as the ALmD roses will be, just to see how well they take the level of sunshine. The petals do brown a bit around the edges, but not significantly and the plants are certainly happy there. I'm doing what I can to trial as many plants as I can before I commit. I also have several roses on the western side of the house where they get harsh, reflected sun from the light colored stucco walls...those do fry pretty quickly and will be moved eventually.

As for the ligustrum, I think I can either find another place for them or send them back. I think the Choisya Sundance might be my best bet in their place. However, I would still love to hear some first person reviews from people who have actually grown the Sunshine Ligustrum. I realize that privet has a really bad rap with a lot of gardeners, but from the reviews I've read on other websites, it seems Sunshine is a different animal. Maybe I should ask around on the shrub forum?

I know the thought you are putting unto your installation is a pain right now, but it will pay off in the long run! I have to move some big shrubs due to changing lifestyle and garden conditions, and I am NOT having fun yet. Also, just to mention it, evergreen euonymus doesn’t put on a show of bloom or fragrance, but it is a solid choice. (Didn’t Kim or John mention euonymus farther up in the thread?) In case you decide to check it out, I wanted to let you know that I have been really pleased with its evergreen versatility. I have grown Silver Queen and Emerald Gaiety for years, the first as a small shrub and the second as a groundcover and climber. The golden varieties are equally lovely! I am thinking of adding one to my tiny garden which only has room for plants I really want. I honestly could not live without euonymous. I always put some type of evergreen euonymous the gardens I designed because I was looking for exactly what you are, reliable winter color that makes a lovely backdrop during flowering season. The smaller ones are a great evergeen edger, like boxwood. Another plus is that it is easily rooted and propagated (when out of patent), so you can save money on a big project! Carol

How about some of the more golden forms of Abelia? That stuff grows from Hawaii to Alaska! You can't kill it with Napalm!

Napalm—ha ha, Kim! I l love Abelia! It comes in such a wonderful range of foliage colors now, and some varieties are very, very noticeably fragrant. Its arching habit and delicate little trumpets of bloom make it a graceful addition to almost any garden. If I only had room for all my old roses AND Abelia. Sigh. I just passed along a pink Abelia to PDX John on the forum to place in his beautiful and spacious wooded garden. That Abelia is such a great plant that I had to rehome it with someone who would cherish it…along with my mature Stanwell Perpetual rose! Carol

Thank you, all of you, for how much thought and time you are investing in my project! I am humbled and grateful. I did consider euonymus and abelia both. I have one of the golden euonymus shrubs near my front door and while I like it very much, I preferred something more solid colored, not variegated. Same with the Abelia, plus it's a bit "twiggy" in my garden. Both of those could work, I suppose, though somehow neither strikes my fancy for that application. I think I'm being really hard to please here. :) But yes, I know that all the research and forethought will pay off and that's why I appreciate all your help! I'll check into the tree you suggested, Carol...

My garden fence where this border will be faces northwest. The bed is approximately 5 ft deep along most of it and widens out a few feet wider at the ends. The soil here is pretty good and with some added compost and mulch and water, quite good. My vegetable garden has been a real success here, intense sunshine and all! My neighbors love my sweet corn and tomatoes and cukes. 😋 I grow everything organically and have birds, bees and butterflies galore.

Good for you, Judi! Organic is what our planet and all its inhabitants need. I just planted showy milkweed for monarch larva. 🤞 🦋 Carol