According to this reviewer of said Wave Home Ventilation system, it appears this is mostly snake oil type thing, that often times leads to extensive mold growth.

You can read the review here.

Read the review. I know that sounds ridiculous to you because often you don't read.

Google is your friend when you don't understand something. See #2 below.

snake oil

/ˈsnāk ˌoil/

Learn to pronounce

noun

INFORMAL•NORTH AMERICAN

1. a substance with no real medicinal value sold as a remedy for all diseases.
2. a product, policy, etc. of little real worth or value that is promoted as the solution to a problem."the new tax plan was denounced as snake oil"

"...this is mostly snake oil type thing, that often times leads to extensive mold growth."

Ray, I wanted to give you a chance to explain how you reached your "snake oil" conclusion. You haven't helped houzzers to understand the "why" behind your assertion, so they can't make a more informed decision.

So, let's have a look under the hood in an effort to shed some light on the Wave (apologies to any photon fans)...

The Wave system, like its competitor, Humidex, is an exhaust-only ventilation system that is sold as a means of ventilating humid living spaces. It exhausts air from the space to the outside the same as a bath fan or a range/cooktop vent hood does. A reduction in relative humidity assumes the air exhausted will be replaced with warmer air from other conditioned living areas (when installed in a basement, the assumption is that it will come from the 1st floor) which has a lower relative humidity. The physics are sound: when you replace a quantity of air with a higher relative humidity with the same quantity of air at a lesser relative humidity you reduce the relative humidity in the space. Think of it as a take off on the old "the solution to pollution is dilution," if you will.

That said, there are a couple of problems using an exhaust-only ventilation approach to reducing relative humidity:

1. The amount of moisture in the exhaust air compared with the make-up air may not be all that different.

This would be the case if the replacement air is simply outside air leakage at the rim joist rather than air from another conditioned living area. Using the system in summer might have no effect on the relative humidity in the space and it could possibly increase it on hot, humid days.

2. The net amount of moisture removed may be trivial compared with the total moisture in the space.

This involves comparing the exhaust flow rate with the volume of the space. The largest system Wave offers is a 40 cfm exhaust rate which they claim will serve a 2,100 sq. ft. basement. The system they sell for crawl space ventilation is also 40 cu. ft./min (cfm) for up to a 3,000 sq. ft. crawl space.

Let's look at the crawl space ventilation first and dispose of that. The International Residential Code requires sealed, conditioned crawl spaces to be ventilated at a rate of 1 cfm/50 sq. ft. of crawl space area. A 3,000 sq. ft. crawl would need a 60 cfm fan so what Wave offers is 50% undersized for a crawl space and fails to meet code requirements.

Now for the basement. The Home Ventilation Institute (HVI) recommends 0.35 air changes per hour (ACH) for ventilating living spaces. If we assume a basement ceiling height of 8 ft. and a 2,100 sq. ft. footprint, we get 16,800 cu. ft. At 0.35 ACH, we'd need an exhaust rate of 16,800 cu.ft. x 0.35 = 5,880 cu. ft./hr. or 98 cfm. The 40 cfm fan is undersized by more than 100% and this assumes ventilation only--not dehumidification of the space.

The other problem with basements is that there often is an ongoing wetting of basement walls or the slab which doesn't let an exhaust-only system to ever "catch up."

3. The energy contributed by the warmer replacement air may be trivial compared with the amount needed to reduce the relative humidity of the more humid space by increasing the temperature. This analysis is similar to the moisture analysis above. A 40 cfm make up air flow rate with a temperature differential of say, 5F to 7F for a 16,800 cu. ft. volume is like peeing in the ocean. Okay, make that a large pond.

As to the issue of "extensive mold growth" it's difficult to imagine how an exhaust-only system could result in additional mold/mildew growth in a space except where the make-up air is hot, humid air leaking through the rim joist in the summertime as was described above.

The Wave system isn't "a snake-oil type of thing," but it's not a good solution to a dehumidification need--at least for large spaces.

The Wave system isn't "a snake-oil type of thing," but it's not a good solution to a dehumidification need--at least for large spaces.

Charles you just out did yourself and don't even understand what you just said at the end of all that rambling... just to argue over something that isn't worth arguing about. Short and sweet rebuttal and straight to the point.

"not a good solution" -- Your own words Charles.

Snake Oil : a product of little real worth or value that is promoted as a "solution" to a problem.

So simple an autistic child of 2 could understand it...

Ray,

If someone with technical "chops" like Joe Lstiburek or Allison Bailes tells me something is "a snake oil type of thing" I would tend to believe them without further consideration because they do their homework. You--not so much. You relied on the opinion of one author who doesn't have much technical chops either. In fact, he appears to be just as confused over dew point as you are. Here's an excerpt from his article which you linked:

"The science behind an a/c unit or a dehumidifier is the same. Blow either cold air over warm coils or warm air over cold coils which cause condensation to form thus producing moisture droplets to fall into a pan or bucket."

Here's an excerpt from one of your own posts from two months ago on the thread https://www.houzz.com/discussions/6174577/how-is-this-mold-spreading#n=23 :

"The only way mold grows like that is moisture. What causes moisture? high humidity & cooler air coming in contact with a warmer surface. (They call it dew point)"

It shouldn't be a news flash to anyone working in the HVAC field, but the "dewpoint" or saturation temperature of air is reached by cooling air to the point at which it can't hold any more moisture and the excess condenses. You won't produce condensate by heating air. It defies physics.

The Wave system, like its competitor, Humidex, are not "snake oil." They can perform the function which they advertise, just not in spaces as large as they advertise and not in homes with air infiltration sources near the unit. That limits their applications. If you read reviews of the Wave system, some reviewers found it worked well in their applications and others didn't. Caveat Emptor.

As to your claim about "extensive mold growth," that doesn't make sense unless a 40 cfm fan is able to enhance infiltration of humid air. It's more likely the case that conditions in the particular spaces were ideal for mold growth and the Wave device did little or nothing to mitigate them.

Does this guy>>>> Austin Air Companie…come here for ANY other reason than to put others down, stir trouble and act like he is Gods gift to HVAC? I made the mistake of watching a video of himself he posted and after the first 10 seconds I wanted to gouge my eyes out and rip out my ear drums with a pair of needle nose. I feel for you Katy, TX.

@Andrew,

Ray is one of the houzz cyber bullies who contribute little substance to houzz threads despite his "pro" label and his self-professed "illustrious" 27-year HVAC career. His YouTube cartoons (what else would you call a video that features thermometers wearing boots and hats?) are mildly entertaining if approached in the right frame of mind.

LOL. From the review itself.

The hvac market is a billion dollar market for which products are made that do not work.

Something that doesn't work? You get offended that I call it snake oil?

If that's so... make up a new term that describes this flaw? (PS: there were more than two pictures showing mold with the Wave Home Solutions System installed.)

Oh, no I am picking on a producer of junk? That's rich. How dare you call my garbage - garbage.

The OP complaining of not feeling well with the Wave Home Solutions turned on? What does mold growth do to your health?

Two other people who like to yack without thinking... plenty of iron for you in this post...

"The OP complaining of not feeling well with the Wave Home Solutions turned on? What does mold growth do to your health?"

The OP noted:

"I honestly feel like it was making the air bad to breath especially very dry upstairs in winter."

An exhaust-only ventilation system like the Wave, if it operates as claimed, exhausts air from one living space and pulls lower relative humidity make-up air from elsewhere in the home. That air, would most likely be replaced by air infiltration. Bringing low relative humidity winter air into a home reduces the indoor relative humidity. The OP's claim of very dry air suggests that the Wave system is doing what it is designed to do in their specific application. If you read homeowner reviews, some find it to work as advertised.

With regard to mold, the reviewer posted photos showing mold in a basement with a Wave system. It wasn't a scientific test and there were no "before" and "after" photos posted. Correlation is not causation. It's not likely that the Wave played an active role in causing mold in the space, but it is likely it would not be able to dehumidify the space for the reasons noted above.

If you're going to pronounce a product is "snake oil" you should either have some first hand experience or perform some engineering analysis to prove why it won't work. Neither you nor the reviewer did that.

Charles when the firemen leave the station they look for smoke.

Because? where there's smoke, fire is not far behind.

The reviewer of this product provided multiple situations all of which had the Wave system installed. It wasn't a "one off event" with only a single home with such problems.

So what does common sense tell you?

Look who I'm asking?

OP here. You guys crack me up. Ever watch “modern family”. I feel like you guys are earl from closets closets closets and jay from Pritchard closets. Arch enemies. 😜 no hard feeling I find it funny and I am also learning a lot.

I also am having a hard time breathing in the house. It makes me feel sick, tired and that I can’t breath. it’s drafty and mainly low humidity 30-35 RH in Certain rooms. It a small humidifier in kitchen and in the AM it’s about 30. The Wave is off now and Humidity is within range now in some rooms but not others. was worse when I had the wave on. High in summer, low with wave on now In winter. but lower now - very cold in NJ. I also have been getting a burning smell out of a few baseboards. I have a 20+ year old Buderus gas boiler. And at night in my room when it clicks on I get a smoky smell. I want to buy manometer and positive negative pressures by my self. Can I do it?

I have an energy audit scheduled for dec 22 but didn’t know if they do that.

I think the wave caused my brand new hard wood floors on the top level to cracks and split in winter and cup in summer do to all that air moving around.

I am doing this alone so I have watching humidities. I have six hydrometers through my home. Now I want to get a manometer on my Home Depot credit card. Do any of these look good.

Op here. I forgot to mention I am getting this weird dust across my house I cleaned real good and the 4 days later this is what I got.

All my tables , dark counters, dark floors. The rest of everything is white so I don’t see it.

If you're seeing significant room-to-room variation in relative humidity (using the same device to measure relative humidity in each room,) you have an air distribution problem or an air infiltration problem or both. I think a blower door test and duct blaster test will be helpful for troubleshooting purposes. Hopefully these will be performed as part of your energy audit.

The 40 cfm flow rate of the Wave system isn't likely to alter the relative humidity in your home, although it may affect the relative humidity in the particular room in which it is installed.

OP here. You guys crack me up. Ever watch “modern family”. I feel like you guys are earl from closets closets closets and jay from Pritchard closets. Arch enemies. 😜 no hard feeling I find it funny and I am also learning a lot.

I try to make it funny. Although I think this episode is more like Fantasy Island and I am merely your host.

Some will say I am being a bully, then others will chime in doing the same thing to me.... but that's ok.

I find it really funny too, when the builder defends this product a whole long drawn out post only then at the very end to more or less say exactly what I said from the first post and then argue again about even doing that.

When your words mean nothing. That's a builder for you... because anything that comes up after the house is built... what do they do? deny, deny, deny. Yeah plently to learn in terms of their tactics.

If your words lack meaning... whether someone finds them derogatory? Yeah no one can handle mean tweets anymore. You can't say what you mean without someone being offended. So you go into this long drawn out fiddle faddle explanation to wear people out hopefully they won't read the whole jibber jabber commentary? I can only imagine that was the builders goal... to wear you out while saying more or less the same thing I did. Albeit in a less derogatory manner. The difference is? It's Fantasy Island, remember?

Doesn't really work with my Fantasy Island hosting skills. I often take the opposing side of an argument. Take your rose colored glasses off. Some don't like that approach, many more will see easily right thru that. *IF* I didn't do what it is I do. I take the approach that I don't care if you like what I say or not. I call it like I see it.

If everyone agreed without disagreeing? We'd be telling you the wave was the best thing since sliced bread which clearly... it is not. The builder won't fully admit it, he can't stand to agree with me on anything. That is the only thing "real" here on Fantasy Island.

Look at the builder back pedal now with his last post. Skip your iron intake for the day, you're full.

There is rarely, if ever, a one-size-fits-all solution nor a product that's right for every application.

The Wave system isn't right for every application, but according to some reviewers, it worked for them. It deserved more analysis than it was given by Austin Aire Company and more than the author of the article he pointed to.

The technical opinion of people who don't understand what dewpoint is nor basic physics should be viewed with some healthy level of skepticism.

There is rarely, if ever, a one-size-fits-all solution nor a product that's right for every application.

There is rarely, if ever a solution that lives up to the term "solution".

My definition: A solution is one that fixes your problem, without creating new problems... otherwise it's not a solution.

Builder Solution: We build a house for you tell you it's flawless but after 1-2 years it's your problem.

Stay on track, Ray.

We're not looking for a solution to every problem, just the OP's.

So you can't do it Charles? too much phosgene gas earlier in your career as a Chemical Engineer?

Not looking for a solution to every problem? This is why you pop a pill for one problem only to have your face twitch, hair fall out, cause high blood pressure, and have to be constantly monitored in the event you cut yourself your blood won't clot and you bleed out.

Hey, we got a solution for you... isn't that how the mantra goes?

How many times will you fall for that with your HVAC system? Asking for a friend.

Ugh, the word is ”breathe.”

Ray,

Your suggestion that I breathed in phosgene gas is either ignorant or insensitive or both.

Phosgene gas, along with chlorine gas and mustard gas were used on Allied and American troops in WWI. Those gas attacks killed people. My grandfather was a member of the Royal Newfoundland Regiment and one of many soldiers subjected to poison gas attacks in WWI. You're an ignorant, insensitive jerk, Ray, on every level.

Ray,

Your suggestion that I breathed in phosgene gas is either ignorant or insensitive or both.

It was a joke... phosgene gas is a by product when R22 Freon is burned. You've called me a freon breather before so the only difference in this case is that it's burnt... my chemical loving friend. LOL.

Ray,

When you've said something sufficiently stupid, off-color, inappropriate, insensitive or otherwise offensive to someone, it's not an "LOL moment." It's an opportunity to apologize and hope they have the grace to forgive your stupidity. That's what mature adults do.

CR Homes, I don't know why you waste your time. I've decided to disengage other than in more egregious circumstances. You know the phrase about what you can't fix. Don't bother trying.

@Elmer J Fudd,

It's difficult to imagine someone as intellectually challenged as our favorite HVAC replacement contractor appears to be. Maybe I'm an optimist. Perhaps his houzz,com experience will make him a "better" person.

It's difficult to imagine someone as intellectually challenged as our favorite HVAC replacement contractor appears to be. Maybe I'm an optimist. Perhaps his houzz,com experience will make him a "better" person.

Yet you do the same thing to me without a second (intellectually challenged) thought. In my book that makes us even.

But it's ok for you to do it? Right? without consequence...

The word hypocrite comes to mind for some reason.... the focus is "always" me to become the better person? Why is that Charles? -- three fingers pointing back at you, you, you.