Just spoke to the HVAC guy and feel frustrated. Our furnace is 60,000 BTU which he said is quite small for a 3700 square foot house. As a result of the furnace size he said best we can do for AC is 300 something, I missed the measure. But that he doesn’t even think that will cool the home well. So now I don’t think we can do anything. Why would we throw money at this if it won’t even cool the house?

I don’t know much about HVAC but here’s some pieces I think I know. In US I believe ac size measurement is in tons. So 300 tons US or 2721. kilograms in CA or whatever size measurement they use. One thing I will say is if your house is multi level, zoned ac - multiple thermostats- one for each zone is really a must. There might be a sq ft size where multiple ac units used instead of zones as done in hot climates like desert. We had our ac die during last summer’s heat wave & while being checked out had some convo about size of our unit. We were told size need determined by a program fed with data about # windows, insulation, some kind of heat loss or exchange measurements etc. Reason I mention this is I wonder about the HVAC guy’s assessment. Your house is less than 4 years old, correct? It’s likely much more energy efficient than even a 10 year old house & so no surprise if furnace size smaller due to better insulation. BTW, our broken AC unit? Problem was a tiny tree frog that fried itself on the condenser. A $30 part we could’ve replaced ourselves if we’d only known!

Yes it’s 300 tons max size is unit for our furnace. A second quote just came in and he said would be fine to cool the house but is on smaller side. Said our furnace would have been better bigger.

He confirmed that heat pump is not an option as to qualify for rebates we need a furnace that is different than what we have so we could replace furnace and get heat pump to the tune of $19k with $9k back in rebates

So basically we now have to people saying the same thing on AC unit size. Both different prices. One is $8600 one is $6500.

🤦🏻🤷‍♀️ Same brands? Anyone you know with similar homes having AC already? Any reviews on the two different companies giving quotes?

Both companies highly recommended and reputable locally. Different brands.

One is Daikin DX16SA-036 AC

One is American Standard 4A7A4036L

Lots of people have AC or heat pumps. A friend who built around same time has bigger furnace and bigger AC unit. A colleague has the heat pump/furnace combo and complains about costs in winter.

First of all, anyone telling you you need a 300-ton HP or Air-Conditioner has either lost their mind or never knew anything about HVAC. If there are grants for a furnace and AC then there are grants for HPs. The goal of the grants is decarbonization through electrification.

You might want to get a proper heat gain/loss calculation along with an existing duct work evaluation, all done to the latest CSA standards and work from there. Everyone just seems to be guessing here and especially there.

IMPO

SR

There are no grants for AC. There are rebates for heat pump and new furnace combos.

Why is a 300 ton AC not recommended? Can you clarify that?

The first guy had a ton of calculations. I didn’t catch them all as he was talking.

Ah just did some reading 300 ton looks far too small for our home size. :(

Wow, 60k BTU is definitely small for a house that size. We're in Seattle, and we've got a 65K BTU furnace for a 1750 sq ft house. Of course we have a leaky 1958 home, and your new home is probalby much tighter and more efficient, but still.

I think you mean a 3-ton AC unit. Saying that because we just upgraded this summer to a 3-ton unit. It's still a bit undersized for the house. 4 ton would be better for the house size, but we're limited until we're ready to upgrade the duct and vent system. That's one thing I learned about HVAC systems. The size of the furnace and the AC have to match up so that the shared equipment (blower, ducting, and vents) support both machines. If a house hasn't been designed for AC, tacking it on isn't necessarily simple. If you really want cooling, maybe your best option is to go for a heat pump system designed for primary heating and cooling. Then a gas furnace for backup or additional heating, when temperatures plummet.

Lol yes I probably got the numbers wrong it’s 3 something! See this is why I’m so confused lol. There is zero chance I can get my partner to consider the new furnace and heat pump option. It’s expensive and seems bonkers to replace a 3.5 year old furnace. I suspect we are going to do absolutely nothing on this and lament our woes and hope we don’t have wild heat again this summer.

Amen to that. This summer was brutal. Take your time and research your options. The advice above to get a zoned system for a multi-story house is very good. Be ready to move when your furnace does approach the end of it's lifespan, and be ready to do some upgrades to the ducting. I wish we had done that, so that instead of an emergency upgrade that still doesn't cool the second story, we had installed a full design that made the whole house truly comfortable.

Also, look into a whole-house fan. Except for a couple of really terrible weeks, PNW nights usually cool to something decent. If you have a system that can clear the hot house air and suck in the outdoor air at night, it can really help. Have good blinds on the south and west windows.

I’m definitely going to ask about zones. It’s only upstairs that’s awful in the heat. Main floor has tons of air flow and basement is so dreamy cold

OMG you have a basement! So jealous. If I had a basement I would fit it with bunk beds for a summer sleeping zone.

One ton of cooling is 12,000 BTU, based on the amount of heat needed to melt 2,000 pounds (1 ton) of ice in 24 hrs. 5 tons (60,000 BTU) apparently is the largest residential-type system available (without going into commercial-type units). More capacity than that needed, multiple units are installed, zoning, etc. 300 tons would be 3,600,000 BTU.

We cannot do zones without redoing ducting. That is not something we will take on in a 3.5 year old home. Sadly this is another thing we left to our builder to inform us on and hope they had our best interest at play when they didn’t. Lesson learned

Sorry, that really sucks. Hope you can find a reasonable solution for cooling.

Yes @dadoes I made a mistake, as a laymen, not remembering the numbers. Thanks

You have to be careful with "numbers". Sure, CO2 GWP is 1 (as an arbitrary reference). And yes, R410a has a 2000 fold higher GWP. But R410a is BILLIONS of times lower in atmospheric quantity than CO2.

Yeah because the only numbers that truly matter are costs. I can't change the minds of politicians forcing these things extinct. I am merely telling you the reasoning they are using to phase it out / ban it.

Look at this discussion above about said numbers? (cost) It never goes away. Sticker shock, what is comfort worth to you?

I guess $8k is too much is it? We want a grant to pay it for us? Cost. The nitty gritty. No one wants to pay. Nothing new.

Now if you sweat bullets night in and night out at some point that $8k may become "worth it". That's why I have an Inverter AC at my house. Wink - Wink. It uses R410a by the way.

--------------------------------------

There are no grants for AC. There are rebates for heat pump and new furnace combos.

Why is a 300 ton AC not recommended? Can you clarify that?

The first guy had a ton of calculations. I didn’t catch them all as he was talking.

See here, the numbers that matter? cost.

300 ton AC is probably being confused with 300 cfm of air your current furnace would provide for the air conditioner size you really need for your house (*according so some companies you've called there). To function properly an AC really needs at least 350 to 400 cfm of air. Because CFM of air decides the size (capacity of the AC) . Why pay for 4 tons of AC if your furnace is only going to deliver 3 tons. You're paying the utility company for 4 tons, but only getting 3 tons.

When you reduce air flow you reduce capacity of the system. A lack of maintenance clogged air filter will do the same thing.

The quotes you are getting are for 3 ton AC units. (Daikin and American Standard) The *numbers* you provided tell me that.

What these contractors are assessing in terms of tonnage (capacity size needed) for your structure, I suspect aren't familiar with new construction and the efficiency gains of a tight build structure. They look at that single furnace 60k btu and they get puzzled when it comes to adding AC to it.

3 tons of AC for 3700 sq ft sounds imaginery. Considering you don't have AC now? Heat pump same difference... the heat pump is only used in that situation until it becomes too cold for the heat pump to make sense anyway. Gas heat is there. So I think some of these contractors just don't want the fuss to deal with heat pump / duel fuel kits / wiring issues and so on.

There *could be some merit there* in terms of what is allowed to get the grant. The grant may specify new complete systems that are matched. So that would most likely require you to replace the whole system including the existing furnace just to get the grant. The con is increased cost to do so, which out weighs the thought of getting something for nothing via a grant. Sounds good on paper, that's about it.

Heat pumps aren't really all that fun if they break in the winter. They are supposed to be charged in cooling mode and cooling mode doesn't work so well when it's 30F degrees outside. If you don't charge them in cooling mode, 9 times out of 10 you're going back. The death knell for a service company. Ask me how I know? LOL. < you don't need a fact check on that. HA-HA.

We have a 3700 square foot 3.5 year old home. It has a high efficiency furnace and forced air through out.

Are you including the basement in the 3700 square feet? If so what is the total without the basement? Can you post the make and model number of your furnace and thermostat? Can you post what are the requirements for rebates for heat pumps in your area?

The winter outdoor design temperature for the Vancouver airport is 24 F degrees, the summer outdoor design temperature is 74 F degrees. Given these mild temperatures the heating and cooling loads are smaller than what would typically expected for your size house. Post the insulation values of the attic and exterior walls if you know them.

One other advantage of a dual fuel system is it provide a back up heating system. If the heat pump fails in the summer, you can use the furnace for heating as you do now. No need to call for an emergency heat pump repair in the winter.

Thanks everyone. We are not interested in getting the more expensive furnace and heat pump combo which is what is required for the rebates.

Both hvac people said that the max size AC unit we can get because of our furnace size won’t fully cook our home.

We are leaving this for now.

When I said I wasn’t sure it was worth it, I didn’t mean we want something for free, I meant, based on both hvac providers indicating the AC unit we can get isn’t really big enough that it won’t cool our home enough to be something we want to invest in. The cost is what it is. But both have said the 60,000 BTU furnace limits us.

The size you need can only be accurately determined by a load calculation. This should have been done when the house was originally built. I agree it does not make economic sense to replace your gas furnace or paying a lot of money for a dual fuel system just to capture a rebate.

It’s only upstairs that’s awful in the heat. Main floor has tons of air flow and basement is so dreamy cold

It would be possible to install an air handler in the attic independent of the existing furnace and duct work. The size would not be limited by your furnace. You should investigate if the attic ventilation needs to be improved or additional insulation should be added.

Both providers did a load calculation to figure out which AC unit we could have. The original hvac person clearly did not plan a system that really works for our home and we didn’t know otherwise. The furnace is fine for temperate weather. But it is cold in two rooms consistently.

We don’t have an attic.

A 60,000 btu furnace typically has a blower size that will work with a 2 ton AC. You may find one with a blower option large enough for 3 tons but I can't think of any offhand. You live in a relatively mild climate but, even so, 60,000 BTU is marginal for all but the most thoroughly designed and insulated 3700 sq ft home. That's probably why you have a couple of cold rooms. You can't supplement the gas heat with a heatpump as the heatpump must turn off the gas heat when it engages.

So an update is we are meeting with an Energy Coach. It’s a free service offered by the company that does the rebates. They will walk us through the options and what might work for our home on the heat pump side of things.

Also heard from both HVAC guys again who did say with our newer furnace it really doesn’t make sense to pull it out. In terms of rebates there are two options. We could replace with an air handler system that is all electric or do a hybrid option with heat pump and furnace but our furnace doesn’t qualify so would need new. Both of these are very expensive and mean we essentially toss the existing furnace.

Yes the existing furnace isn’t perfect and we have cold rooms etc. That said it’s not something we want to replace right now. Knowing the size of the existing furnace impacts good AC options means we are in a holding pattern.

Perhaps one more hot summer will break us but for now we need to see what tue Energy Coach says and see. It’s disappointing this isn’t easy as when we built we were told it would be no problem to add on AC later that would cool the whole home.

Yes the existing furnace isn’t perfect and we have cold rooms etc. That said it’s not something we want to replace right now. Knowing the size of the existing furnace impacts good AC options means we are in a holding pattern.

Perhaps one more hot summer will break us but for now we need to see what tue Energy Coach says and see. It’s disappointing this isn’t easy as when we built we were told it would be no problem to add on AC later that would cool the whole home.

My response wasn't necessarily intended to flame you on the "free" aspect, but to highlight that the number you're presented is often much higher than what you think it will be. We all like to get a value for what we want and when the feeling of value isn't there? A holding pattern develops as you say.

There's nothing overly difficult to add AC to an existing system, aside from cost. However, there's more to it than just plunking in a coil, lineset & condenser. Especially when you have other issues to contend with... that I am only reading for the first time now many days later. Those issues unless addressed won't get any better with a merely a change to heat pump generated heat.

I was under the impression that you were looking for a way to add AC and improve / reduce gas usage for heating I wasn't under the impression that you have cold rooms.

You say you have cold rooms, but you don't say how cold. You say hot summer, but you don't say how hot. Hot to me is 95F+ with 80% or higher humidity level. (outside ambient temp OAT - not horse food. LOL.)

Another big problem when you build a really tight structure and you install HVAC especially in a very expansive home 3700 sq ft. I have every reason to believe that you have 1 thermostat and a 60K btu furnace.

It's not uncommon for large area homes with these kinds of set ups to have rooms that are *cooler* than others in heating mode and or cooling mode (too hot / too cold). This difference could be in the realm of 10F degree difference or more from other parts of the structure. So you go and raise the temp at the stat and other areas become too hot, the rooms that are too cold still likely to struggle to be truly comfortable.

The primary reason this is a problem is the lack of control when it comes to structures this big and expansive. It's quite common for people to believe the system they have is undersized for the structure they've built. Maybe it is?

Is this house single story or two story? If two story that only adds to trouble with a single HVAC system and one thermostat.

When you have a large expansive area to heat and or cool and one thermostat? That thermostat only senses temps in about a 5 foot half circle around the area in which it sits. In a large structure the rooms farther out from where the physical unit sits often become the problem. Because in order to heat them (in your case) you sacrifice the comfort in other areas of the house by forcing the unit to run longer.

If your furnace size is accurate, presents problems. The better way to zone a house of this size would be to have separate systems that heat or cool a smaller area of the home to help with the issue of cold rooms / rooms that are really far from the thermostat.

So for more increase costs you install separate HVAC system(s) as in more than one. Oops that's gonna blow the cost conundrum once again! It is what it is. However, the next lower sized furnace is going to be in the realm of 40K btu I don't know of any mfgs that make anything much lower in "heating size" so installing (2) separate 40K btu furnaces now have the structure over-sized by 20K btu. You could compensate a little by going with (2) 2stage 40k btu. Essentially these have high fire and low fire. So high fire simply will just go unused in some situations. But this doesn't alleviate cost. More equipment costs more, not less. As ducting would have to be separated for these *zones* or areas of the home the systems would heat / cool.

Another way is HVAC zoning. HVAC zoning on the surface sounds really simple, but due to how it functions to alleviate hot / cold room problems is that problem area will run the equipment on it's own. So if you have a 3 ton HVAC / 60K btu all that potential will go to that problem area directly, other areas are dampered off via electronic controls.

I think there would be plenty here that would tell you that you're borderline nuts to zone a 3 ton / 60K btu HVAC system. But there is little you're going to do to solve temp disparity problems in an expansive structure.

Sounds great, but over the years every kind of junk maker has gotten into this space. I can't tell you how many times I've condemned these kinds of things. It can work, I have a zone system in my own home as well as a rental I own. Tenants run these things hard. If there was a problem I would have heard it long before now, especially with where rents are right now. That rental is a 3 ton HVAC system with 4 separate zones. That was done based on the fact that comfort means different things to different people and a thermostat can not sense temperature thru walls and a different area of a structure.

Mike-home chimed in with a summer design temp for your area of 74F? Is that accurate?

3 tons of cooling in a climate like that, but you didn't say if that was accurate?

Problem rooms can be cured with zoning, the gotchya is finding someone skilled enough to know what they are doing... that might be asking too much.

So you realize zoning only adds more costs. My goal is always to find the solution when all facts come out. I was recently to a house with similar problems. The house had 3 HVAC systems. The owner thought all that was needed was to insulate / run another duct. But without control of the system those things would only add more misery. Because after going there they told me another room would become too hot if by playing with thermostat settings.

Without control -- the problems are merely going to shift to another area. Not a solution.

Your ductwork might have been sized for the higher temperature air flow produced by a gas furnace rather than for the lower temperature air flow of a HP. You cannot install a HP or AC requiring greater airflow than the ductwork is designed to support without considerable modification of the ductwork.

You will also require a 200amp electrical entrance for a HP all electric system.

IMPO

SR

Thanks all. Again we are pausing for now to think through what our options are. We won’t be massively redoing anything. The house is only 3.5 years old and while it may not be perfect we have zero plans to do anything big.

As stated in a previous comment we have a basement, main floor, and bedroom level. So we are split over three levels. We actually have a self contained 750 square foot suite too but it has baseboard heat.

It’s cold in two rooms but fine. We get a cold snap each year here bit it’s not dramatic big picture. This year was our coldest winter in over ten years with temps dipping to -13 C which never really happens. It was cold in two rooms then but an extra blanket works just fine for warming up. We also had dampers put on the main floor vents that are quite closed in an attempt to push the air upstairs more.

Yes we have one thermostat and we don’t have plans to change that or create zones. That would mean more additional work and expense which we have no interest in taking on at this time.

We don’t normally have super hot summers at a but I’m the last few years we’ve had hot spells that are very hot for our area. Even then they last for a few weeks tops. Last year we had a week and a half around 38-45 Celsius but our summers are normally more like 25 average.

We don’t want to just plunk anything down and have it not work well which is exactly why we’ve hit pause for now. We now have two local providers, who have been in the house, saying the same thing. That the furnace isn't the best size for our home, that cooling with AC will help but may not be as great as we want it to be. That there are rebates for heat pump but the costs to do this all are high. We absolutely don’t need AC. It’s a luxury we want but isn’t needed. When we started this we went with the info received from the first HVAC person who built our home, that it would be an easy add on for AC when we were ready for it. This person neglected to tell us many things about our system and we didn't ask as we were the typical homeowner who didn't know what we didn't know.

Again though, while I would love to remedy all of this, it just isn't a high priority at this time. We would happily have thrown the $86oo at it if we felt confident that would be a great match. But we don't so we need to pause and think on it. The costs are what they are and there is nothing wrong with them. We just personally need to decide how far down the rabbit hole of "fixing" this we would want to go and right now, on a nice cool but not too cold day in March, with spring on the horizon it is not far down the hole as I"m quite comfy in the cold room!

Mike-home chimed in with a summer design temp for your area of 74F? Is that accurate?

A 25 C degree (77 F) average is around the 74F I had posted. You may have to adjust the design temperature depending how close you are to the ocean.

Last year we had a week and a half around 38-45 Celsius but our summers are normally more like 25 average.

A temperature of 38-45 C is 100 - 113F degrees. Are you sure about this? The record high I found for Vancouver is 94 F degrees.

My understanding is this house has a flat roof. Not sure of what is the insulation value. Even with a outdoor temperature of 75 - 80 F degrees, It can get very uncomfortable living under a flat roof when the sun is beating down on it.

Here's a thought to consider for the future. You current furnace is undersized for a 3700 sq ft home and a single system is never going to work well with three levels.

How about............ Re-jigging the ductwork some and adding a second furnace to service the bedroom level? The basement needs very little heating and cooling capacity so your existing furnace could cover the first floor and basement. The second furnace could serve the bedroom area. Only complexity is re-jigging the ductwork. This may not be as difficult as it sounds but I'm not feeling too great about any of the contractors who have adviced you so far.............

Good luck with whatever you decide.

A temperature of 38-45 C is 100 - 113F degrees. Are you sure about this? The record high I found for Vancouver is 94 F degrees.

We don’t live right in Vancouver. Surrounding areas hit highs well into the 40’s as reported in numerous articles and in the almanac etc. It was terrible. 45 is likely not as high as it got. We had several days of 42’ and school was even cancelled two days. The Vancouver weather is also measured from downtown by the water and doesn't reflect surrounding cities at all.

House doesn’t have a flat roof. But we don’t have an attic.

How about............ Re-jigging the ductwork some and adding a second furnace to service the bedroom level? The basement needs very little heating and cooling capacity so your existing furnace could cover the first floor and basement. The second furnace could serve the bedroom area. Only complexity is re-jigging the ductwork. This may not be as difficult as it sounds but I'm not feeling too great about any of the contractors who have adviced you so far.............

There is no room for another furnace anywhere. Where do people put a second furnace? Both HVAC people said to zone the system would be expensive. They also said it was doable but we don't want to take on that kind of expense. Rejigging the duct work doesn't really sound like something we would want either. We worked hard for our flat ceilings and likely this created some ducting issues.

Why are you not feeling great about the contractors? I mean I will say I had them come to quote on AC and heat pump not a whole system change. They have politely followed up in email to questions generated by this forum though.

It’s cold in two rooms but fine. We get a cold snap each year here bit it’s not dramatic big picture. This year was our coldest winter in over ten years with temps dipping to -13 C which never really happens. It was cold in two rooms then but an extra blanket works just fine for warming up. We also had dampers put on the main floor vents that are quite closed in an attempt to push the air upstairs more.

Yes we have one thermostat and we don’t have plans to change that or create zones. That would mean more additional work and expense which we have no interest in taking on at this time.

Yeah that's the nice thing about cold is that you can put on some more clothes (extra blanket). So the cold in those rooms? how cold? 70F cold or 60F, 50F cold? I know you're in celsius land, but that is not my market.

We had dampers put on main floor vents: yeah, that is the trade off cheap way of trying to gain better control but 9 times out of 10 it's not going to work. The dampers in a well done zone system are at the supply plenum. When you close vents off at the vent (where the register is) it creates alot of system turbulence because air will attempt to go thru those closed off vents.

There's garbage zoning products that do the same thing you put them on the vents the dampers are at the register. If someone says they work they are probably located in a mild area in which the system isn't used much.

There are even more garbage products than that. So when you say it's expensive? yeah it can be if you want to put it to bed so to speak. That's what a solution is. Not whitewash.

If the method of closing register dampers worked on main floor, this thread wouldn't be this long. It's a trade off from spending money and doing it the right way. There's many opinions on this just like everything else.

In a more moderate cooling climate your concerns for air conditioning are probably reserved to about a few weeks to a month. There's cheaper ways to get thru those months for an area that doesn't depend on AC to live. There's trade offs there too. Noise, uneven temps, sizing issues that likely will cause short cycling and so on. (Window Unit)

There's a thread right now on this board mentioning problems with a portable AC unit.

So your HVAC system has a single thermostat. Your house is a 3 level house. Heat only.

That thermostat isn't going to sense the temperature anywhere but about 5ft around it. Typically HVAC is designed to have the return of the HVAC system near the thermostat, because when return temp reaches thermostat temp it dictates to shut the system off. It doesn't tell the thermostat of room temperature in each room. Why differences from one room or level to another exist in a "lack of control" type HVAC system.

Heat rises - Cooling falls, so these can cause further disparities. If the upper level is too warm complaints come in but the lower level is still too cool / cold. Fights break out. No way around that. Because these trade offs were accepted when this system was designed whether they told you then or not... I'm telling you now to help you understand.

To make matters worse, in the summer when there's too much heat the situation reverses and the upper level is too hot. This is partly why when dealing with a multi level home that each floor has it's own individual thermostat and it's own HVAC system. Zoning this way is zoning by floor with equipment.

Large expansive floor plans with one HVAC system per floor can still have temperature disparities from one room to the next. One person may prefer 70F / another may prefer 75F. Home builds are built and designed with no people in them with a budget.

You've said there is no room to put in a second system. Yes, that is a thing for an already built structure. This is why zoning is a way out, when done properly it can work.

If you think zoning is expensive get some quotes for a new complete 2nd HVAC system with duct work, gas hook up, electrical hook up, flue, lineset and so on. Just because there's no room? You can't let the structure defeat you, if you are truly investigating a solution. This will show you the value of a zone system when you compare.

That's not what defeats me. Money, what someone is willing to spend to fix a problem. A real fix, not a close a register vent here and there type fix. This comment isn't intended to flame you, it is to explain the difference from what a real solution is versus a band aid on a gaping wound. Due to climate your situation doesn't sound that bad so the dramitization warning to this thread probably applies. People that may stumble across it in the weeks and months to follow can decide there threshold for pain when it comes to hot / cold type problems.

I know you've decided to put this on the back burner so this response shouldn't be taken as an attempt to beat you while you're down. It's to try to explain to you what a real solution *could* look like, not to mention likely reasons why your current system has the issues it does.

I service the Katy, Texas area.

What about a mini-split for the bedroom suite? They're not the most attractive systems, but it would solve both of your issues without any major expense or work.

Austin Air, that’s the thing, this isn’t a real problem for us. We are fine with it as is. We aren’t looking to improve the heating but we realize it is connected to the cooling if we want to add that. So in our climate the luxury of adding AC is just now not a massive priority. This thread is so long because people helped me understand the AC and heat pump options more. But we have zero plans to address the one thermostat or colder rooms because they are a mild inconvenience we are managing.

WestCoast Hopeful,

yeah no harm no foul. The point in me learning about the cold rooms can be made a different way I have no idea what your understanding is or someone else reading this later.

I'm called on random occasions by people who read this board and never take the time to post.

So my style of responding is always looking down the road often times miles. But I am not psychic. When I learned of the problem rooms you have (too cold) made me think this wasn't being considered in the grand scheme of things related to your quest to add AC and or heat pump duel fuel.

I can't tell you how many times in my career people have requested me to do things that will not work. Which essentially is a big fat waste of time. So when I have ample time to squash as many of these myths as I can, I take the opportunity to do so --- sometimes at the expense of those who take the time to post questions as well as respond back.

So please don't take that as anything personal. It may sound that way.

Oh didn’t take it personally at all. It’s a super valid point. Really before we address cooling we need to look big picture at the system and if it works well. If not we need to address changes that will make it work well for heat
And cooling. It’s just bigger than we expected so for now will wait and see and work on this later.

@Austin Air Companie thank you for your detailed replies on this thread. I've been going through old Houzz threads for a few months researching solutions to our own AC woes. Posts like yours have been super helpful.

@WestCoast Hopeful best of luck figuring out a long term solution!

Look at a mini split for your bedroom. DIY units can be ordered already charged with refrigerant for much less.

We already have window AC for our room and fans for three kids. When we make a change it will be a well thought out one that really works not a stop gap. Not a fan of the mini split aesthetic

I wouldnt consider a mini split a stop gap, and your replies are a little condescending. A mini split would be the most economical way to heat and cool your upper floors. Most 3700 sq ft homes are built with zoned areas or multiple units. You have neither. Many of us were trying to help, but didnt realize that the aestethic was so off putting.

Maybe you should have had “a well thought out plan” when you built the house 3 years ago. Good luck finding a solution.

You are seeing what a few of us saw from the OP at the beginning of this thread - condescension and a total lack of understanding of the ins and outs of comparing a furnace's OPERATING COSTS vs a HP's OPERATING COSTS! And then becoming aggressive with those that helped.

Seems he still doesn't understand. lol

Mini splits in my opinion do not work for a structure of this size. 3700 sq ft.

You would become equipment poor in no time. Maintenance costs, repair costs and eventual replacement costs? It would be a waste of money. Not to mention the ugly box on every room of the house.

If you need a (single) spot cooling / heating device they aren't bad. But expansive large structures at the residential level that would require many of them? uh no.

There are valid reasons for not wanting a mini split. How someone views this as condescending is beyond me.

When someone has a different opinion than me = condescending? LOL. It's a choice in a world filled with opposing choices. If you're cooling / heating an 800 sq ft open floor plan cracker jack box -- sure go ahead mini split is a good choice for that. Proper tool meet proper job.

No one is being condescending actually. Me not wanting mini splits is a personal choice because we don’t like the look of the units. And yes we should have had a more well thought out heating plan and I said as much above. Hence the dilemma after all. 😂

Stax anyone who comes to this forum is seeking help in understanding hence the need for the side. You are now the one yelling for some unknown reason. I do in fact understand the costs and what is being discussed now and they have exceeded what we are comfortable with so we are now pausing to figure out what to do next. How that is condescending is beyond me. I have received countless informative and helpful comments. Many explained and highlighted new things and they gave me a lot to think about. That doesn’t mean I need to do any of them though. And there is nothing wrong with that. I very much appreciate all the information shared.

“If you need a (single) spot cooling / heating device they aren't bad. But expansive large structures at the residential level that would require many of them? uh no.”

She specifically mentioned the upper floor. I was not suggesting she cool her entire home with a mini split. 🙄

But even then it would require a unit in each of the four bedrooms to be effective. Or if not in each room more than one. I’m sure they work great for some homes. It just isn’t something we wish to explore.

@WestCoast Hopeful--since your house is new, do you have a copy of the plans that show the HVAC duct layout? If not, can you get them from your builder or from your city's land use department? It would be worth securing that. When you are ready in the future to replace the furnace, it would help you consult with local professionals and Houzz experts on what kind of upgrades you can make.

Great idea. Yes we have a binder of photos and plans etc.

Wow Stax. Why are you even on this forum? An option always exists to not comment. Good bye back at you! 👋

Air conditioners do not provide heating, but heat pumps do. Thanks to a reversing valve in the outdoor unit, a heat pump can absorb heat energy from outside air, even in extremely cold temperatures, and transfer the heat inside the home, where it releases the heat into the air.

Yes we are aware. The only reason we were looking at heat pumps was for AC because there are many rebates for them where I live. We know AC is cooling only and heat pump can be both.

I actually did follow up with good advice above and got the plans for the house and also talked to the original guy about why we don’t have zones and the size of the furnace.

No zones was because our builder didn’t ask him to quote on that and it wasn’t in the scope of work. So our fault for not knowing that was a thing and to be asking more questions or builder and hvac when we built. I don’t know that we would have done it but it was never presented.

For the furnace size he said they is Teca’s Room by Room Heat Loss Software and it indicates furnace size needed