Viburnum Valley - That was a very comprehensive and informative post. Thanks very much. What you said makes so much sense. I feel more confident to choose this as a project and that it could very easily fill the need I have. I had thought perhaps I would have to choose which criteria are more important to me, but from what you have said, it could be I could satisfy all of them to one degree or another. It's sounding more like a fun project. I will give more thought to what I might not want to consider and I'm sure I'll be back with another question or two.

We were out there today doing some remedial work along the lot line. Our neighbor on that side has other priorities and working in the yard seems to be a very low priority. There is a line of 8 spruce trees, a Sycamore and a White Pine, that were all crammed in too close to each other in a haphazard way and then Maple seedlings, wild grape and Poison Ivy were all ignored for a decade and none of the trees were ever watered. So, there are a lot of dead lower branches on the Spruce trees that are an eye sore for us. They hired someone to come in and clean up the yard last year and they took down a dead tree and pruned the rest and pulled out the saplings and not sure how much of the Poison Ivy. And they left some of the dead wild grape vines up in the trees hanging down.

Today, we cut down a lot of the lower dead branches on the Spruce from our side and were able to grab some of the dead grape vines and pull those down. It looks a lot better and now there is an area to work with to plant on our side and fill in where we can screen out whatever they are doing over there. I got a head start, we have two large mature Taxus Hicksii on the other side of the yard, that have been trouble free and attractive that are about 10ft tall at this point. One of them produced a seedling so I dug that up and planted that where it might be a very effective screen and won't mind any shade. And that's all we need to do this year with that area. Maybe by the Fall, I will be ready to work on this project and have a plan by then.

Spend the time between now and this fall, and make additional close observations (back up with photos to which you can refer later).

**Note which way rainfall/water flows, or gathers. Plants you eventually select will have preferences like this - or extreme distaste - and you can accelerate your success by siting in the best possible fashion.

**Similarly, you can note the arc of daylight across the space, and maximize the placement of plants that prefer the most light and those that prefer the least.

**You probably already do this, but since these postings are meant to be informational to all...steer all your yard nonwoody waste to this future hedgerow site to advance the organic matter improvements. Grass clippings, leaves, etc. will all wend their way through decomposition while you are continuing the contemplation.

Good luck with the project. Bless us with some before/during/after imagery, as you have time.

I love the idea of collecting yard waste to add organic matter. We already do this, but I would not have thought to use it for this purpose. I have a small property so yard waste, especially non woody is in short supply. Not enough to improve every bed. We have improved existing beds and created news ones with the lasagna method. We usually have plenty of cardboard.

This bed along this lot line has had a lot of failures of different shrubs I've tried there. Shrubs that did fine when I moved them to other locations. So I've been working on it for 15 years and nothing has been a satisfactory solution. Thought I would just add a row of Arborvitae at one point, I have one there that hasn't done all that well. I tried a Juniper 'Witchita Blue, in a sunny corner and that had to come out due to Rust. The Arborvitae is still there but lost a lot of lower branches and I'm deciding whether to keep it and move it to a corner or just get rid of it. I keep trying to use natives and since Virginia Creeper just pops up in the yard on it's own, I decided to let it do it's thing. Big mistake. Now I have to rip it out of that whole bed, it's gone everywhere and is strangling some of the other plants.

I forgot to mention that I don't actually have sandier acidic soil. I have neutral clay.

This is a photo in early spring of the area in front of the spruce trees along the fence. This was taken about 8 years ago.

We attempted to have a perennial/shrub bed there for awhile, but it's never been very successful. You can see the spruce tree branches were full and leaning quite a bit into our yard.

We're considering using the bed to the left and the walkway to the right of the stone edging, with the area to the left of the rock edge, where the hedgerow would go and on the right side, we might plant some flowering specimen trees.

Here's the far corner of that Long Border area in winter, and you can see the height of the Spruce trees in the yard next door....but that was long ago when the spruce trees were full, now those two in particular are almost dead and I don't see any plans to remove them.

Here is the mature Taxus Hicksii across the other side of our yard and I'm considering adding a couple of young pots of that to mature along that fence line too.

Some of what is growing there now....

On the fence that you can see in the third photo above.

Near the other end almost under our Maple - elderberry and Blueberries with Virginia Creeper going up the fence. all of which seem to grow well there, but they are not an effective screen.

Near the Arborvitae and trellis...

Asclepias....

Lilacs are hard to beat for reliability, beautiful blossoms and fast growing. Beauty of Moscow

However, after looking at your beautiful yard, lilacs might be too unsophisticated.

L Clark, hmmmm.... I never think of my yard as sohphisticated. I haven't bothered to label my style. I wonder how many gardeners have. I think I have eclectic tastes, that would include informal gardens like meadows and wildflowers, too, but I guess I also want some formality with crisp edges or framing of beds. I also have a completely level lot and I didn't have that in the past and I miss the change in elevation. It gets boring. I added rock edges and potted vertical accents to try to relieve the boredom.

Isn't a hedgerow itself unsophisticated? [g]

We do love lilacs. I had a grouping of lilacs in the corner of that bed by the fence but they were not in full sun maybe 6hrs only. They bloomed fine, but the foliage was always covered with mildew and one year I decided to rip them out. A decision I regretted after the fact. My daughter still misses them. They were my Mom's favorite flower too. And I used the space they were in for roses on the fence. I did try adding a lilac on the other side of the fence. It was an impulsive buy at a plant sale at a botanical garden. A whilte lilac with huge blooms, called 'Avalanche' But it doesn't get enough sun there. It blooms okay but has grown very slowly and I wouldn't miss it if I tore it out. The fragrance is disappointing.

If you have a larger lot to work with, you can usually find a place to put some lilacs. The other issue I have with lilacs is that they only bloom for a short time and then the hedge is not all that attractive the rest of the year. And if you end up with mildew that's worse. Not even fall color. I did try to make up for the lack of lilacs with Syringa palibin which only gets 5ft tall, has more attractive foliage, has almost the same fragrance and has some fall color. But I've lost one shrub after a particularly hard winter and I'm not finding it easy establishing a new one.

I do still go back and forth in my mind about putting them in that border. I was just thinking, the biggest reason now that I don't want to add them is I thought I'd need to put them in the area they were in and give up the roses there. But maybe I can figure another place to put them.

Do you have Beauty of Moscow? Is that a pink? Strong fragrance?

If I put a hedgerow there, it is along my North lot line. Facing South, but not full sun. It has some morning shade from the house in the East and afternoon shade from mature Maple to the West, starting about 1:30p. The most sun any spot along that border gets is 6 hrs.

Plus it has the challenge of the root systems from all those trees on the other side of the fence. Maybe I could help that condition out by moving the hedgerow further away from the fence. Of course, starting to collect and pile organic materials along that area now, would go a long way to improving the soil, too.

I keep thinking that in addition to the hedgerow I can add one to three upright small flowering trees in a row to the South of the hedgerow. But if I do that, I will be creating way more shade, which might be okay with one small tree, but probably a large problem if I put a line of trees there, putting the whole hedgerow potentially in shade. So, maybe I need to rethink that and incorporate one specimen flowering tree into the hedgerow and one specimen conifer and figure a way to plant the rest of the hedgerow around those two elements. Is there actually a conifer that would tolerate 6 hrs of sun?

Your garden reminds me of an elegant English garden. When I think of lilacs I think of a tough, hardy and sometime scruffy-looking plant. I do have a couple beauty of moscows growing. Planted last year. I replaced some lilacs that were, well, what I call weird. While they bloomed tremendously and were beautiful during that time, their leaves were very, very small and always covered in powdery mildew. Not very attractive. The Beauties leaves are not like that. Whitish-pink and they smell nice

L Clark, I'm going to have to go back and see the dates on some of those photos. I was picking and choosing which would show the area under discussion. I think that season when the vegetable beds were new, was a good year. I know that most of the time, it doesn't look that good. And when my DH tells me it's looking good, I always can't stop myself from saying, "We're getting there." And really gardens are always evolving and do you ever feel you are finished? [g] I always feel that is the attraction of gardening as a hobby, is that you are never finished and always feel there is something more to do.

So you are waiting for your Beauties to mature. Sounds like you are happier with them than what you had. And I'd agree that more often than not, common lilac bushes are scruffy looking but tough, but what can replace the fragrance of lilacs in the spring? In previous homes we had, they all had lilacs on the property but not as a specimen plant, just out of the way and not really noticable until they were in bloom. We used to bring armfuls of blooms into the house and fill vases for every room. It was a glorious week in the house. We had the common purple. And I never noticed if it had mildew or not, because they were in an out of the way spot on a larger property than we have now and I wasn't a gardener at that point.

Have you tried Calycanthus? I have the straight native species, and Venus hybrid. They are rather different, the native being a much fuller shrub, but I like both of them a great deal.

My favorite lilac is S. microphylla. I don't think I've ever seen mildew on it, and it is almost always a good looking shrub.

Mad Gallica - Is that the Syringa microphylla? Very pretty shape and appearance and would not think it was a lilac from that photo.

Yes, I have a native Calycanthus in a different location. I haven't had it for long and it's still small and hoping this year it will start to fill in and make a statement. I find the dark brownish red flowers barely noticeble. I wondered if Venus had larger more obvious flowers? It does take some shade too, right.

Yes, that photo is Syringa microphylla 'Superba'. It reblooms a tiny bit in the fall, but the general shrub shape is what I really like about it.

I agree that the dark red calycanthus flowers are easy to miss. It's another one, though, that makes a nice shrub shape. I have it hiding the legs of my regular lilacs. Even during the summer, the leaf shape and color make a nice contrast with the lilacs.

I don't seem to have a photo of Venus. Mine is still fairly young, but it seems to want to make a fairly open shrub. It's the shrub behind the spirea in this picture. They are planted on the east side of the large oak you can see. About 20 ft to the west is a row of large white pines, so this area gets a fair amount of shade.

What Spiraea is that?

My bad. It isn't a spirea, but a deutzia. The spirea is next to the other calycanthus.

I hear you about gardening! I'm pretty new to it all and I'm learning more and more each year. It's fun. Your garden is something I aspire to, well done.

Yup, The beauty of moscows seem to be better than the common purple ones I had. Like you, I truly love lilac blossoms. Whatever shortcomings they have seem to be forgotten when they are blooming. Plus lilacs are just super tough and reliable, which is something I MUST have. I'm sure whatever you decide will look great!

Thanks. I was wondering why I’d never come across a Spiraea like that before.

Great advice from Viburnum Valley

Here is a thread where I talked about my hedgerow aka mixed shrub border with how I planned it, plants included, and goals, along with some photos.

https://www.gardenweb.com/discussions/3113384/shrubs-for-privacy-along-a-fence#n=22

I try to include plants that have multiseason interest, thinking about flowers, scent, winter interest, branches, berries, and interest to wildlife. Lilacs really are a one shot wonder, with 2-3 weeks of blooms and no interest the rest of the year, so consider if you want to devote the space to them or just enjoy those in other folks’ yards.

In addition to those I listed in my mixed shrub border post, look at

Clethra - August flowers with light scent, and bright, clear yellow autumn foliage, but a green lump the rest of the year

Daphne ’Summer Ice’ - ornamental foliage, very long bloom May-Oct here, scented flowers, semievergreen here

Fothergilla - scented early flowers for 3-4 weeks, green lump all summer that makes a good structure to grow clematis onto, stunning red/gold/orange fall color

many Viburnums, with spring flowers, summer fruit, and autumn red color

Rhododendrons with spring flowers and all season leaves, some of which are maroon in winter

Mountain Laurel/Kalmia evergreen with spring flowers

Lonicera sempervirens on a trellis

various clematis, especially those that are bellshaped, grown on shrubs that don’t have summer interest.

Ogon spirea, with white spring flowers, delicate gold to chartreuse summer foliage on a bush that is a lovely fountain shape, and red-gold autumn foliage

Here are a few relatively current photos of different parts of my shrub border from last growing season, after 4 years of absolutely no maintenance at all due to family health issues.

Babs I did go back and read your original post about your mixed shrub border. It’s so much fun to look back at the first photos and then compare to the current photos. I remember when you first posted about putting in that border. It’s really filled in and looks great! It looked great all the way along but from the last 2014 photo on the other thread to the current photos here, wow, it just made such a leap and the mature outcome shows what good planning and decisions you made. I really love it!

What is the big yellow shrub in this photo. I already have a lot of yellow in the canopies and shrubs that are here now and not nearly enough reds and oranges, and that looks like a nice orange color. Does that have berries too? Also the Hydrangeas really have a presence in the hedgerow. Your Ogon Spirea is gorgeous in the Fall.

is that the same shrub that is in this photo too?

I also find it helpful the way you made decisions and didn’t choose specific cultivars but went to the nursery with a general idea of what you were looking for and used the end of season sales to keep your budget.

I have two kinds of Clethra in the garden in different areas and you're right, they are basically contributing very little all year, but, I have one growing under the dripline of a Maple where I had trouble growing other things and the leaves are so clean and shiny and healthy, that I appreciate that something will grow there. Also I never find Clethra fragrant. The other I have is 'Sherry Sue' which is taller than 'Hummingbird' and the white flowers are very late, blooming when all the shrubs are turning color in Fall, then it is covered with Bumble Bees. I never see any hummingbirds attracted to them.

I can't grow a Kalmia or a Pieris which I would love, they just don't prosper in my garden for some reason, I've tried them both. I have 'Major Wheeler' just added last year but it's up against the back of my house near the kitchen window.

The big yellow shrub in both photos is a spicebush, Lindera benzoin. It is a rich yellow without much gold or any orange. The Fothergilla mentioned above will give you gold, orange and red. The spicebush will have a haze of tny yellow lightly scented flowers in the next coyple of weeks, and it is a host for the spicebush swallowtail butterfly larvae. It has fruit if you have both male and female, but I don’t and they don’t come sexed; it is randomwhen you buy them. It is a really large shrub.

The smaller red-gold in that last photo from 2014 is Amsonia hubrichtii, a perennial, and most years it is gold and orange without any red. My Ogon spireas also have a fair amount of red and orange in the fall.

Can you grow blueberries or is your soil unsuited for them? They have spring flowers, summer to early fall fruit, and red fall color.

One of my favorite groundcovers for at least 6 hours of sun is some of the low growing Dianthus like Firewitch or Greystone with their fine-textured bluegreen evergreen foliage and spring flowers. And my favoite scented plants are rugosa roses and the self-seeding tender perennial Nicotiana.

I made a post earlier and had it almost finished and it disappeared, so I'm giving you the abbreviated version. [g]

I have a Spicebush and it looks nothing like yours. It was more a tree form when I got it and not a multistem shrub. I also planted it in deep shade and it's grown and has those little yellow flowers in the spring, but I think I might start again and get a new shrub that is bushy and put it in more sun.

I do have a few blueberries but i have neutral soil and I've had to add to the soil around them to bring down the pH. Not sure that is going to be a long term planting.

I have an Amsonia, but it is 'Blue Ice' and it's nothing like the species. Much smaller, and not as vigorous as I was hoping and no Fall color. Yours looks great. So does the Ogon.

You've done a nice job on that bed, Babs.

Rugosa roses and nicotiana that reseeds...nice ideas too.