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brian_poultney

Tulip Tree - need help

4 years ago
last modified: 4 years ago

I bought a tulip tree last year from Arbor day Foundation. last year it grew at an exceptional rate. this year - its growing great again, but i am struggling with the leaves turning brown, curling and crumbling. there are always tons of new green growth - but when the leaves fully open with in days they turn brown.

the tree gets mostly afternoon sun (10am til maybe 4pm). i live in mid-michigan. we did have a hot spell a few weeks ago and i thought maybe the tree got scorched. i water it daily (1 gallon a day or more). its in well drained soil, has 3" of mulch around the base and i mixed in compost (cow manure) in the soil as well.

i read that root stress can cause this issue, but it was fine last year - and i havent done anything different this year.

please help - id hate to lose this tree.

i'll attach pictures if needed

thanks

edited - provided a pic - i'll get better ones later


Comments (44)

  • 4 years ago

    Aphids should be visible on the underside of the leaves. I would make sure the Aphids are present before spraying insecticides willy nilly.

    brian poultney thanked BillMN-z4a
  • 4 years ago

    thanks for the tip. are the aphids visible? i dont physically see any - unless they only come out at night or something

  • 4 years ago

    A tree that's been in the ground since last year, shouldn't need daily watering. Once or twice a week is sufficiant depending on the temperatures and rainfall or lack of and soil type.

    A hot day in full sun could produce the problems you describe. But roots also need air as well as water so drowning it is never a good solution.

    Try backing off on the water for a few days and see if that helps.

    Is this some sort of cultivar of tulip tree? The light colored leaves gives me the impression it is.


    brian poultney thanked BillMN-z4a
  • 4 years ago

    BillMM - sorry - I am not sure what that means "cultivar of tulip tree". all i know is the name of the tree is this:

    Tulip Poplar - Liriodendron tulipifera Tulip Poplar | Naturehills.com


    i will lay off the watering and take better pictures once i get home. we have another one of these in the front yard - not experiencing these symptoms at all. the only difference is the one up front gets late pm sun and is mostly in the shade.

  • 4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    Google cultivar. ;-)


    If you ordered the one at your link, then it is most likely the straight species.

    Some cultivars are in a dwarf form or different color variations.

  • 4 years ago

    One more thought. If that is a full sized 'Liriodendron tulipifera' and you have it planted in a narrow bed next to a building, you will want to move it next fall or spring when it is dormant, to a location with a lot more room.


    brian poultney thanked BillMN-z4a
  • 4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    Like Bill said, I would try watering less. Looks kinda chlorotic, which over watering can exacerbate. Or it could be some sort of virus, which I know very little about.

    brian poultney thanked L Clark (zone 4 WY)
  • 4 years ago

    And don't expect for things to change overnight but after a while the tree should start looking better and even putting out new growth. Come back and let us know how it turns out. :-)

  • 4 years ago

    It very well could be aphids but to cause the leaves to shrivel, it would have to be a pretty good infestation to do that, which then would be easy to see against the bright colored undersides of those leaves. :-)

  • 4 years ago

    Yes, if it's not aphids, then I agree, get a professional diagnosis.

  • 4 years ago

    ,thanks everyone - i will cut back on the watering, and I will take better photos. looks like i will be transplanting this tree this fall.

  • 4 years ago

    Aphids are easy to see with the naked eye and are there all the time, not just at night. If you really can’t see any after a good look, then that’s probably not the problem. They would be in clusters and they just sit there feeding.

  • 4 years ago

    thanks for the link.


  • 4 years ago

    Is this a tulip tree (Liriodendron) or is it the tulip poplar hybrid? I've seen the hybrids grow vigorously while shedding leaves in the process. If it's a hybrid, I think it's simply just how the trees grow.

    brian poultney thanked HU-249884534
  • 4 years ago

    per my order - this is what it was called:

    Scientific Name

    Liriodendron tulipifera


  • 4 years ago

    my daughter came home from lunch and took these photos. do these shed more light on anything? you can see "mature" leaf's yellowed and brown with vibrant green new growth.






  • 4 years ago

    Have you been pruning the lower branches?

    brian poultney thanked HU-249884534
  • 4 years ago

    i have not. i guess I was too nervous to do that and the wife didnt want me to. so, if pruning will help - please tell me how

  • 4 years ago

    i read that too, but i dont know about root stress. nothing has really changed - we had a few hot days - maybe that was it. since then i have added mulch and have been watering daily. not sure what to do


  • 4 years ago

    Definitely not aphids. It seems like a more systemic condition due to environmental stressors, disease, or some combination of the two.

  • 4 years ago

    so, what should I do? should i use something like BioAdvanced 3-1 insect, disease and mite

    control spray????

  • 4 years ago

    No use trying to move it until it goes dormant and the weather cools off.

    How I do it around here is I check the bed for moisture in the root area with my finger and if it's not cool and moist a couple of inches down, under the mulch, then it's time to water.

    As mentioned a tree like Liriodendrom t. may not mind some extra water.


    New leaves that open in full sun, should not be adverse to those conditions.


    Not much else you can do. If it's some kind of disease or virus, you just have to wait and see if it can pull through. It might or might not but that's the life of the gardener. :-)

  • 4 years ago

    should i prune it?


  • 4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    @brian poultney I wouldn’t. Clipping a few disfigured leaves here and there won’t do much, but without knowing exactly what’s going on (especially if it’s just something temporary/cosmetic vs. a true threat to the tree’s health), there’s the potential to stress the tree more with any significant pruning. There’s also the potential for some of the affected leaves to still be photosynthesizing, so I’d leave well enough alone.

    brian poultney thanked lostintheweeds
  • 4 years ago

    thanks - i'll check for moisture and leave things alone for a while

  • 4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    Am I the only one who thinks the leaves look waaay too yellow? I think the unnatural yellow leaves are burning up in the sun. Iron needed? Nitrogen?

  • 4 years ago

    Pouring a gallon of water a day on it could be too much if it is penetrating all the way down OR not enough if it is running off and not even penetrating an inch.

    Have you ever dug down after watering to see if water is actually going where you think it is?

  • 4 years ago

    If this tree is properly identified then it is WAY to close to the building, I have two that are on my lot. One both are over 50' tall and over 12: a foot or so above the ground. See this link


    https://www.wildflower.org/plants/result.php?id_plant=LITU


    It should be move to a to the middle of a circle about 50' in diameter so that there is space for a tree this size.


    I agree the problem with the leaves is probably insect infestation, and probably spider mites. We use a solution of dish soap and water to take care of the mites.


    The mites will not kill the tree and will not be seen when the tree is more that 20' tall.

  • 4 years ago

    thanks everyone for the feed back - i will investigate tonight and report back. i didn't have time last night. the tree will be relocated in the fall


  • 4 years ago

    Reflection and heat off the white surface in the back maybe the problem?

  • 4 years ago

    never thought of that

  • 4 years ago

    I’ve planted hundreds of Tulip Trees and have seen this exact thing on at least 10 or more of them including trees that were fine and grew to 35 ft and now are experiencing your issue. I’ve planted many other trees that also have experienced this issue including sugar maple and oaks. All the trees that experience this issue are in the same general area. What you are seeing is severe sun scald due to mineral difficency in your soil. In my case I plant in and around a wetlands area where the soil is wet but refuses to give the trees, weeds, etc enough water to overcome the hot sun. There is nothing I can do with these trees but let them attempt to grow and hope their roots reach better soil. I hate to say it but most of the time the tree dies. So I try other trees that can stand the soil (Dawn Redwood, some Swamp White Oaks, Ginkgo). So in summary, your tree has a root problem due to the soil. Moving it when dormant would be recommended otherwise research trees that can better handle your soil.

  • 4 years ago

    i called a local landscaping company that has an arborist. he is coming out 7-6-22. he will look things over and give a recommendation. the good news is, its free :) i;ll keep you all posted and i appreciate all the replies


  • 4 years ago

    arborist comes tomorrow at noon. i was gone all last week on vacation and we had no rain, and my tree wasnt watered. no change. still growing and producing new leaf's, but turn brown and curl after a few days. i am getting anxious. I'll report back tomorrow afternoon.

  • 4 years ago

    Thanks for the update. Be looking forward to it.

  • 4 years ago

    so, Arborist came. the good news, the tree is ok - here is what he found:

    1. tree was planted too deep. crown was 3" below soil. he said that will damage the bark and cheat the tree out of nutrients. we remove soil around tree to proper depth
    2. He said to fertilize with rapid grow to give it nitrogen
    3. he told me to sprinkle iron around the tree base
    4. the soil was WAY to wet. he said let it dry out. water it once a week after it dries out

    he recommended relocating in the spring and we chose a good spot in the yard for that.


    no disease, no bugs, no mites.


    i'll report back in a few weeks and give updates. he also said he doesn't think we will loose the tree. the problem is all environmental and it can be fixed.

  • 4 years ago

    Great! Good to hear. ;-)

    Yes, root crown being buried is a slow death for many types of trees.

    Go easy on the N, a small tree won't need much and don't apply any too late in the season.

    I know nothing about Iron, we have no shortage of that in my neck of the woods.

    Sound like you got a handle on it so now just have to wait and give it some room to grow.

    Thanks for the update!


    Bill

  • 4 years ago

    so, i know its been a week. I put in a moisture gauge by the tree roots and its on the low end of "moist". the crown has been exposed and looks well. added 3/4 cup (per the directions) of chelated iron, and used miracle grow fertilizer as recommended by arborist. not seeing much of a change. how long do you think it will take before we see improvements? maybe next spring after its relocated? still growing fast - just browning fast as well.

  • 4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    These things take time.

    Once the problems of a buried root flare are alleviated, the tree will begin the slow process of building a good root system and that can take a season or two for that to happen. So, you might be seeing some of the same symptoms for a week or so before things stabilize and the slow transition to a healthy plant begins.

    I wouldn't keep dumping fertilizers on as a small tree's nutrient requirements aren't that high and unless there is a real deficit in soil nutrients, you've most likely given the tree all it can stand for now. Too much is worse than too little when it comes to fertilizer.

    I've used miracle grow in the early season to help plants leaf out and get growing but it can take a week or two to start seeing results which is then mainly leaf production.

    And don't fertilize past middle of August. That might cause to tree to produce new growth that won't have time to harden off before cold weather arrives.

    You've done all you can, now it's just a matter of patience. And don't be surprised if the tree dies, that can happen to the best of us. Don't ask me how I know. ;-)

    brian poultney thanked BillMN-z4a
  • 4 years ago

    if does die - it will be a lesson learned. i'll just have to order momma a new one

    thanks for the tips

  • 3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    bringing this one back to life. Sad to say, this tree didn't make it - no signs of life. i ordered two new saplings and planting them in different spots last fall. they show signs of life this spring - fingers crossed. i just ordered 2 more that are 12" tall and are potted. is it ok to transfer them to bigger pots and keep them on deck for this summer and transplant in the fall?

  • 3 years ago

    You can. You just have to keep an eye on things if your deck gets all day sun. Pots tend to dry out and get really hot, fast.

    I generally try to find a spot with sun for a few hours a day, morning is best. Also be careful during long rainy spells too as the pots tend to stay too wet ime. I ususally put them under my plant table during rainy spells.


    That said, I never have great luck keeping trees in pots, and won't do that if I can plant it in the ground. That way the tree begins to establish immediately.


    Even in the ground, you don't want a new tree in all day sun, you could plant it now and just make sure it doesn't get too dry and if it is a very sunny location, you can put up a sun shade so the tree doesn't bake during the day. Some parts of the world are hotter than others but after care is the most important thing no matter how you do it.


    Others may chime in with different opinions. ;-)

    brian poultney thanked BillMN-z4a