skip to main content
Software
Integrations
Mobile App
Expert Support
All-In-One Platform for Construction and Design
See Pricing
Schedule a Demo
Talk to Sales: (888) 316-4595
My builder uses Houzz Pro to plan the timeline and give detailed estimates and daily updates with photos of progress, and provide invoices at pre-agreed key points in the build. This made the whole experience much more efficient and stress-free.
Steve W.
Client of Cribbs Construction
Learn More
Ideas
Discussions
Houzz TV
Houzz Research
Sign In
Houzz Logo Print
Explore DiscussionsFeatured Home DiscussionsFeatured Garden Discussions
The Old HouseKitchensRemodeling
melissaguinness

Advice needed on keeping vs removing collar ties

4 years ago
last modified: 4 years ago

I recently removed the low beadboard ceiling in the kitchen of my summer cottage. I wasn't expecting the collar ties to be so random in size. One runs the full width of the room, 3 are spliced together and one falls just a wee bit short and has a notch cut out of it! It looks like they just used whatever was on hand! The house was built in 1904 and I think this portion of the kitchen which includes an adjacent breakfast room and laundry room where added later. I'm looking for advice from a professional as I haven't been able to find anyone available in my are to come have a look. I hope I can remove them or if I have to keep them, replace them with uniform beams.

PS This has been a solo (me) DIY project. This is what happens when my husband leaves for 3 days to go to a regatta with our son! Also, don't freak out about the cloth covered electrical wires. I do have an electrician coming to update them :-)


This photo shows the vaulted ceiling next to the low ceiling in the adjacent breakfast room. I intend to remove that ceiling too after this one is finished.


One of 3 sistered collar ties.


This collar tie falls short


Ceiling before removal


The roof from the exterior. The breakfast room and kitchen are in the yellow area. Breakfast room on the left, kitchen on the right.


Featured Answer
  • 4 years ago

    Please note this commentary is not heresay or something I'm guessing from reading from the internet.

    Those look to be your rafter ties (which also act as ceiling joists). Rafter ties are critical in preventing your roof rafters from pushing out your walls and your roof sagging in a non-ridge beam structure. Rafter ties occur in the lower 1/3 of the attic height and must be connected to the rafter heel and have a continuous span across the entire gable roof. Collar ties occur in the upper 1/3 of the attic height and perform a lesser function of keeping your rafters from spreading apart at the top.

    Now looking at your pictures, there are some things that make it a little muddy as to your structure. You certainly have a gable roof, and it looks like someone has attempted to make a ridge beam structure if it was only a ridge board structure before. It looks like (2) ridge boards edge stacked on top of each other (which does not create a larger beam), with center vertical (3x3?) framing on the side of this ridge board (kingpost-like) brought down to another beam (adequacy unknown) at ceiling level. Then below the ceiling is yet possibly another beam encased in the painted white enclosure. I cannot attest to this non-standard framing, but if it were acting as a ridge beam, you could open up the ceiling framing and vault the ceilings. But, not being able to see the whole attic, dimensions, and lumber sizes, I would caution against it for now. At this point, leaving as is would still need joist hangers at the end of each rafter tie into the center beam, extend the rafter ties and properly fasten them to the rafter heels, and I suppose you could live with the overlapped rafter ties with the mid-support hanging from the rafter (which is causing undo harm to the load capacity of your rafters).

    Looking at the exterior photo, I see the rafter heel bearing on one side of your gable is carried down in between the foundation posts. So overall it appears this has been a DIYed, added-on over the years old cottage and the framing is as I would expect in such a place. Wood is forgiving, and you are not in danger, but if remodeling your best bet is get some eyes in person on it, and come up with an overall plan for the entire back addition instead of attacking it piecemeal.

    Comments (15)

    • 4 years ago

      Now I'm confused. I was told by 3 people they were collar ties. . .

    • 4 years ago

      No. Ceiling Joist or what we would call rafters. Looks like some of yours were shored up. Totally load bearing for the roof.

    • Related Professionals

      Hot Springs Home Builders · Chambersburg Home Builders · Cleveland Home Builders · Cheyenne Home Builders · Chillicothe Kitchen & Bathroom Designers · Hudson Kitchen & Bathroom Designers · Gainesville Kitchen & Bathroom Designers · Vidalia Custom Countertops · Manhattan Home Remodeling · Liberal Home Remodeling · Port Saint Lucie Kitchen Remodelers · Victoria Kitchen Remodelers · Columbia Bathroom Remodelers · Chicago Bathroom Remodelers · Toronto Bathroom Remodelers
    • 4 years ago

      Not possibly shored up because 3 of them don’t even span across the ceiling. Just shoddy work I suppose. They’ve been there for 100 years. I suppose I better get them replaced.

    • 4 years ago
      last modified: 4 years ago

      The joists do not even pass through to the breakfast room. They are just nailed into the board! I just want to be clear: All I did was remove the lightweight beadboard strips. This house is just a summer house. The walls are plaster and lathe and there is no insulation or drywall.


    • 4 years ago

      I went looking for some pics to illustrate 3onthetree (I like the name; my first vehicle was a 41 Chevy pickup with 3 on the tree) made.


      https://support.clearcalcs.com/article/146-wood-roof-ties-usage-theory-guide



      Other light reading:

      https://www.nachi.org/collar-rafter-ties.htm


      Melissa Guinness thanked cawaps
    • PRO
      4 years ago

      "And they are very structurally compromised. Your whole roof/ceiling should be reframed."


      Charlie:


      What part of been there since 1904 do you not understand please?

    • 4 years ago

      We had a house built in 1920. It appeared that they must have used scrap lumber for building it as the living room 2x6 joists spanned 12’ and were sistered. We eventually had a steel beam installed to shore it up. But, the roof had no collar ties and we could see the roof slowly developing a dip. In addition, the replacement window on the first floor become difficult to operate. We had collar ties installed to help pull the rafters back together and interestingly the replacement window operated properly again. The rafters coming apart we’re putting pressure on the exterior walls.

    • 4 years ago

      @3onthetree, Thank you so very much for your very detailed response. It is very helpful. I will continue to try and find someone who can inspect it in person. I am glad to know the structure isn't in danger, but I appreciate that it could have been done better and I will endeavor to see that we improve upon it. @cawaps, Thank you for the link and illustrations they were helpful in understanding 3onthetree's comment.

    • 4 years ago

      I believe that, with a little investigation and minor improvements that you can remove those ceiling joists.

    • 4 years ago

      @Seabornman I hope so!

    • 4 years ago

      Just here to say that from your one exterior shot, your summer home is giving me all the feels. 🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰

    • 4 years ago

      Airly Beacon is a special place. Built by my husband’s maternal great grandmother in 1904, she’s now hosting her 5th generation! 😊

    • PRO
      4 years ago

      Put the beadboard back up please. You had a period appropriate ceiling of original fabric and now want some modern remuddle. Ugh.

    • 4 years ago

      The Union Jack flag, the surname "Guinness," and 5 generations. Pretty cool.

    Related Stories
    DECLUTTERINGHow to Declutter Your Home and Keep It Tidy
    By Sophie Baylis
    Need help to reclaim your space? Discover the tricks of the trade with this expert advice
    Full Story
    46
    ORGANIZING4 Types of Photos That You Need to Delete Right Now
    By CEO/Founder The Photo Managers
    Remove these not-so-great images to make way for more, and better, memories
    Full Story
    31
    HOME OFFICESShare a Home Office, Keep Your Marriage
    By Tiffany Carboni
    Set up a workspace that gets the job done and keeps the peace, with this advice from a homeowner who did it
    Full Story
    29
    HEALTHY HOMEHow to Childproof Your Home: Expert Advice
    By Becky Dietrich, Interior Designer
    Safety strategies, Part 1: Get the lowdown from the pros on which areas of the home need locks, lids, gates and more
    Full Story
    61
    HEALTHY HOMECleaning Routines to Keep Your Home Virus-Free
    By Laura Gaskill
    Follow this CDC advice to make sure your kitchen, bathroom and other high-traffic areas are clean and disinfected
    Full Story
    124
    ORGANIZINGHow to Keep Your Bathroom Organized
    By Laura Gaskill
    After making sure that everything has a place, tie your daily once-over to an existing habit
    Full Story
    33
    LIFEYou Said It: ‘Rather Than Remove Them, They Framed Them’
    By Becky Harris
    Design advice, inspiration and observations that struck a chord this week
    Full Story
    14
    REMODELING GUIDESContractor Tips: Advice for Laundry Room Design
    By Buckminster Green LLC
    Thinking ahead when installing or moving a washer and dryer can prevent frustration and damage down the road
    Full Story
    68
    HEALTHY HOMEHow to Keep Water Vapor From Ruining Your House and Your Health
    By Mariana Pickering (Emu Building Science)
    We help you find out when it’s happening, what it means and how to fix it
    Full Story
    22
    KITCHEN DESIGNHow to Keep Your White Kitchen White
    By Becky Dietrich, Interior Designer
    Sure, white kitchens are beautiful — when they’re sparkling clean. Here’s how to keep them that way
    Full Story
    178
    Sponsored
    Custom Home Works
    Average rating: 4.6 out of 5 stars10 Reviews
    Franklin County's Award-Winning Design, Build and Remodeling Expert
    More Discussions
    grout color decision?
    3
    What kind of home is this?
    35
    How to add a bedroom and bath to this foursquare flooorplan
    17
    Enclosing portion of wrap around porch
    10
    Need Siding Ideas for Craftsman House
    5