I think it's just all about your individual layout. In some rooms it can be a helpful space saver to butt one table end against the island. Where would your table sit if it was freestanding? What are the traffic patterns with attached table vs separate table? If you're feeling brave, post your layout here and you will get plenty of opinions.

I desperately tried to make it work (drawings, setting up boxes, asking here for different configurations), but there was just something off putting about sitting lower or having it attached, I don't know, but it just never seemed right to me. Luckily, ours ended up being close enough to the dining table that those that can't sit at the island, sit at the table and can still be part of the action.

I've never seen it look good, but you could maybe be the first!

If you haven't yet, and are brave, post your plan so people can rip it apart I mean look for ways to maximize useful things while leaving room for an eat-in table.

(I like the expression "increasingly living with me". You're a good kid!)

Personally I am not a fan of the aesthetics of having a table height portion coming out of an island. But if that's the optimal layout, I can understand why it would work best for some. One option is to do an island with no seating overhang and just put a table next to it or near it for now so that your parents have a comfortable seating area.

One other design idea I've seen that I think looks a little better is a small bench or banquette attached to the island with a table. From your description I'm not qute clear if you have room in your layout.

People keep posting photos of kitchens with that set up here and i can’t help but think they all look a bit funny. like people are trying to fit an island where it doesn’t fit. can you keep cabs on the perimeter to make room for the table? or you could decide that function is most important which i would not argue against!

Hahaha! No actual plan to rip apart but below is what the idea was. The peninsula would be new with - what I thought - would be counter seating. It solves the problem of prep space near range but don’t like the counter seating. Without the peninsula, there was a round table under the fixture where the family enjoyed our meals (will find photo). But we had little prep space.

This was my initial thinking. You still get a one level island or peninsula and then a seating area. But then I thought possible hair on island?!?! Or am I taking it too far? And I’m not opposed to an overhaul - except the kitchen sink is staying there!

Ok, that table layout would drive me crazy. Chairs backing up to the sink and (presumably) DW would not work. Unless that aisle is really wide, in which case your sink to range distance would be unpleasant. What is the length of the north/south wall on the right side of the room, behind the table? Is it long enough that you could butt the short side of the table up against that wall?

Your mudroom door REALLY needs to swing into the mudroom, not the kitchen. Or be a pocket door. And I deeply wish you could get another foot of countertop on one or both sides of the range. But that would require abandoning the eat-in kitchen.

One thing to consider--you are "increasingly" living with your parents. Which is a great thing to do, and a very kind thing to do. But also hard at times, and likely to get harder as they age. Do you want to increase your personal difficulties by compromising your kitchen function? Do they want to cook, and is this kitchen safe and functional for them? You could get a much better kitchen and comfortable seating by just asking your parents to eat in the dining room. Maybe you take down the wall between kitchen and dining, and furnish it more casually, to accomodate their desired vibe.

Maybe you can squeeze a dinky cafe table for two somewhere?

This is the kitchen AS IS. And to a person, the suggestion is to take that wall down to the dining room. Im the most chaotic sprawling cook there is so I’m hesitating since it requires a more neat me.

And all great questions, mcarroll16.

Honestly, i would renovate to your living/ cooking situarion , not so much your psrents. having been in your siruation and making large renovarions to accomodate a parent, you need to reallze that the arrangement will be temporary, and perhaps not as long as you anricipate - meaning maybe they decide thet want to go back on their own, matbe thet need specialized care/ home placement, maybe they pass away etc

you will still be living there and need it to function to for your lifestyle and needs.

jist some food for thought from someone who has ” been there “

A few pics for inspiration ...

Andserson Residence · More Info

Black & White Minimalistic Kitchen · More Info

Kitchens · More Info

LA LA LAND · More Info

Older Houzz discussion with additional options Houzz Link

What is the difference between taking the wall down and having people seeing a messy kitchen from the dining room, and people seeing a messy kitchen from a table in the kitchen? I think you will find that you can be a much neater cook in a well designed kitchen. If you have a large sink and large dishwasher next to the sink, it’s actually easier and takes much less time to put dirty dishes into the dishwasher than to pile it onto the counter and cram it into the sink. I will never understand people who put dirty dishes in the sink and walk away when the dishwasher is right there!!! But I digress. You need a well designed kitchen, and put in the effort to keep it somewhat organized.

Thanks for the inspiration photos rz2znp and the reasoning gtdj519.Good points ShadyWillowFarm. In my particular case, I hate to cook, have to cook, and while doing so manage my two elderly parents (one with dementia). So cooking to me is more of a let’s-just-do-this-as-quickly-as-I-can. By the time I do make the meals, I’m so spent that the kitchen is a mess and I use the DR - which faces the street and a beautiful park - to regroup. That may take a few minutes or a couple of hours. The kitchen is not visible to anyone without the wall, you could see everything from the street - but of course I could use pocket doors or something like that.

Are you putting an additional door in to the dining room? I'm wondering if you could move the door towards the hallway and make an L shaped kitchen with stove on the diningroom wall. You might be able to get sufficient prep space and space for a small table. Not sure how much of a reno you are planning on though....

Thanks lharpie. I did think of that but read that stove should go on outside walls? We plan on renovating the entire kitchen. Hubby wants to remove the wall BADLY. So besides the island and counter seating that’s another issue.

The cooktop doesn't need to be on an outside wall, it just needsto be under a hood that vents to the outside, with the shortest & straightest duct run possible. If your stove is on an inside wall where the hood duct can run straight up to the roof, that works fine. Or an inside wall where the duct can run through joists, soffit, or even top shelf of cabinets to an outside wall.

Could the opening to the dining room on the bottom left be moved over to the right? If so, would something like this work?

I am not sure on the wall oven placement. Maybe centered? Or get a range instead?

Yes, exactly what I was thinking! Your current design does not put the stove on the outside wall either? I live in the land of one story houses with perimeter foundations so moving things around is easy, but my parents just put the vent hood through the top of the cabinets to outside in a layout like rebunky drew above. I have a kitchen with table seperated from dining room and love it for the privacy of spaces and peaceful dining room without all of the mess, so I'm with you on the separation!

Hi Cee Bee - it sounds like you’re in a hard situation and I admire you putting your parents desires up front. If you open the wall to the dining room, is there another place you could retreat after cooking? If it stays closed, I really like the alternative design posted above that closes one dining room door and make the kitchen L shaped. It really utilizes the space well, and I think it will be better not having the stove crammed in such a small space. Good luck.

Great ideas! I like the L shaped idea. That would be very functional. From the pics -do you think it’s a big miss to not fully open the wall to the DR? That’s hubby’s desire although he realizes he takes storage and other possibilities away. He just thinks it would be just a wow factor. I can’t argue that - it’s just a question (among many) - of a nice functional kitchen or beautiful kitchen with wonderful views.

I think the L shaped idea with a range functions beautifully. If there's utility for you in having a separate dining room, why go through all the hassle and expense of removing a wall?

Oh! Rebunky's idea is terrific. Really great way to maximize kitchen function in a difficult space. Personally, I would always choose better function over wow factor. If another person in the family felt differently, I might let them have the wow if they can credibly promise to do all future cooking for the entire family.

There is one possible compromise option--you could take down the wall and make that short arm of the L a peninsula. Your hood will interrupt your views a bit, and your venting will be less effective than a hood that sits between cabinets. But your husband can have the open social room he wants (I think you talked about that in a different thread?), your parents get a table in the kitchen, and you all get good ergonomic flow across the work zone.

Do you need a cook top and stackable ovens? Consider a slide in range with a vent hood above. And a microwave on the right side counter where your parents can access it? Along with a toaster and coffee maker? That will give you the working L. And you could put a little table and 4 chairs in the nook. Or even two chairs for sitting for them as you cook. Just a thought.

I think I'd just say that dinner is served in the dining room, and make it as comfortable and lovely as you can. I love a home where the dining room is used frequently. I agree with the poster who suggested that you remodel for you....and make every effort to keep mother and father comfortable in the dr.

All great thoughts. Hubby is the social cook. Loves it. Loves to entertain. He imagines looking outside to the south as he cooks - we face only a beautiful wooded area. Hmmm. Rebunky’s drawing has two cooktops - I assume I get rid of the “cooktop”
By the window in the original plan.? And I don’t “need” the wall oven - thought I would make sense. I would need to change the way the door opens to the mudroom - the fridge door and mudroom door are too close. And if I don’t use the wall oven what could that counter space near the window be used for? Beverage center? There’s a window there so wouldn’t want to close it off with a pantry. What I’m hearing though is an island is not a must, right?

Cee Bee, no I don’t suggest two cooktops! Haha! I just forgot to erase the cooktop label on the oringinal plan.

I have another idea where you have an opening, almost like windows, on each side of the range. Similar to what mcarroll is saying except keeping the wall behind the range for the range hood and up near the ceiling to hide the venting to the outside.

Oh I wish I could remember her name to find a picture for you! I will try, but maybe some of the old timers will remember someone who had a gorgous kitchen that had the two pass through openings to the dining on each side of the range like I am describing.

I found it. It was Shanghaimom's kitchen. Your openings could be wider, or totally open on the doorway side.

You might like an island like this with built in swing out seating......

Interesting, DutchDesign. And rebunky - I kept meaning to reply but I was too busy salivating! My goodness. What a beautiful kitchen and perfect solution. No wonder it was memorable.