Why that material? I need more info. LIke why did you not just contunue the patio or plant grass ?

When soil & decomposing leaf debris infiltrates the gravel & weeds take hold, you are going to seriously regret installing rocks. And future homeowners are going to wish you an eternity in hell.

This is for a turf removal rebate. The replacement landscaping needs to be permeable (so no concrete or hard pavers) and cannot resemble a lawn (no artificial grass and even replacement turf that's low water use, like buffalo grass, just because it looks too much like turf and they are trying to promote water preservation ecosystems, etc). The intent would be to hedge our fencelines with native plants 2-3' around but keep an open space in the middle. We can put things like flagstone pavers, but there needs to be at least 2" of separation to qualify as 'permeable'

As far as future homeowners wishing us an eternity in hell, that's not my main concern... and not much can compare to the "hell" that we we "inherited": a yard full of well-established bamboo/rhizomes/runners, 3 large ficus trees and palms with their roots going all over the place (previous owners neglected their yard, let things grow out of control, and hired mow & blow landscapers to keep the chaos in check). We spent many hours of blood/sweat/tears AND dollars paid just to remove all that crap before it completely destroyed the concrete and eventually got under the foundation of the house. Even while they were excavating our yard this past week, there were old ficus roots and bamboo rhizomes that had made their way 50-60' out to other parts of the yard.

Why is DG such a bad idea if the area is prepped (treated with something like Ortho Groundclear or Preen) and we are laying a couple inch layer of roadbase and/or landscaping cloth under it?

The rough idea would be something along the lines of these:

Unless you live in a climate where you can't have grass, grass is best. Even if you don't have a front yard so you don't want to buy a mower, this is such a small plot of grass you could cut it with a non-motorized push mower. DH had one years ago when we had a small lawn. Sometimes the old tech works. :-)

We're in Southern California - they are discouraging us from having lawns/grass and are incentivizing it with turf removal rebates. The plan is to replace with native plants to my area that are drought tolerant. We were already "low water use" but the yard became ugly :) Just trying to capitalize on rebates and making it look nicer than it was before.

Grass is most definitely not always best; in fact, it's not a sustainable solution for many, many parts of the country. I love the look of DG, see it often where I live and travel, and hope you're able to determine exactly what to do to make it work for you. We do not have turf in our small backyard, but opted for pea gravel and it's a perfect solution.

Thanks Ida! Is the pea gravel a specific type/brand/color? And how much depth of it did you need to add? I'm assuming either way we do it, we should make sure to add a base under it (roadbase seems a bit overkill) like landscape fabric?

Thanks Ida! We still have quite a few roots in the yard in random places. I think it's tough to fully get rid of them all given the # of trees and bamboo that were back there. In any case, the plan was to put down DG but now I'm thinking about gravel. Or perhaps having one area with gravel and another area with DG. I do want to add a firepit out there so wondering if gravel or the 1/2" river rock might be better for that to be sitting on?

We also have a sidestrip along our side alley, which is really intended to be a drainage strip, and I need to figure out what to fill that with. Someone was recommending larger 2-4" river rocks (it's an 18"~ wide strip between the concrete path and exterior wall and is about 4-5" or so deep)

Ohhhh, bamboo. We refer to it now as damboo, after fighting it constantly at our previous home. A nearby neighbor had planted it years ago, and it had spread like wildfire.

Our installer tried to talk us into DG when we were first discussing options, but having my heart set on the river rock/pea gravel, I wasn't about to give in. Our property is zero lot line and our backyard is very small and lends itself perfectly to the look and feel of a courtyard. I had seen enough European courtyards that used the gravel to know exactly what I wanted to achieve, and I think what we ended up with does convey that same aesthetic. That said, I have spent considerable time in the southwest US where DG is widely used, and I really could have happily gone that direction as well.

Somewhere in my online perusal I've seen a sidestrip almost exactly like yours that was filled with the larger river rock, and it was so pretty. My parents have the 2-4" in a portion of their front yard and they love it.

Can we see the whole area I like tis look and it might work without the grass at all.The DG would be great in this look for sure. Or for a bit of relief from all the hard surfaces a nic epatch of fake grass we just put some around our pool and I love it

We installed garden paths with 1/4 minus gravel about five years ago. We dug down about 3-4" and lined the bottom soil with landscape fabric, dumped the gravel, and raked it as level as we could.

We don't have a problem with drainage even though we live in the Pacific Northwest. In a soaking rain, it puddles in low spots but it seeps into the ground a few hours after the rain. There are areas that have decomposed already and are firm ground under a top layer of loose gravel. It's a firm path and doesn't shift when walking. It could use a top dressing of an inch of gravel now because of bare spots.

I don't get weeds but we have a 60" tree that drops debris and leaves. It requires light raking, which rakes up the gravel too. You can't keep it pristine but that doesn't bother me. Raking leaves in the fall is the only major maintenance issue.

You could add some flagstones like we have off our deck and place large pots of plants on them. That would add some interest.

Eileen, have you tried a blower to get the leaves out of your gravel? We don't have a big leaf-drop issue, but our Vitex trees do shed theirs in the late fall and it's time to do the ol' "blow" at our house soon. Your outdoor space is so lovely!

Thank you. We have considered a blower. DH just mentioned it again today. I rake the leaves and pile them along the fence and in that back corner, then I mow them into mulch for my flower beds. It's so wet here in the fall that I sometimes have to leave them until late spring. It's a lot of leaves!

Thanks for the comments and ideas! I'll try to see if I can get more pictures - it's a little difficult due to the angles but I might be able to get up on the hill behind.

RE: bamboo - damboo hahahaha. For sure it's a PITA. The previous owner dragged pots of it behind on the other side of the fence too and it's starting to grow into the ground there. I think the intent was to form a privacy hedge but it was a nightmare to deal with. I'm not sure what we were thinking when they asked if we wanted the bamboo removed and we said "no" lol... stupid and naïve when we bought the place (this was just over a year ago now).

I'm assuming gravel is going to be cheaper than DG no (although, I wonder how much cheaper)? I think we still want some areas to be DG but perhaps adding areas of gravel would help with keeping costs down while still not compromising on the look and functionality/usability. I just don't want the kids running around kicking gravel up and getting it all over the place... that would be my biggest concern. Is it recommended that gravel be compacted and or tamped down into place as well?

My neighbor has decomposed granite and he is able to rake it and it looks great! We have rock mulch which you can use a blower on or if you plant things like agaves, cacti, and yucca they don’t shed leaves:) Thanks for taking the drought seriously and not having a lawn!

@mojavemaria I think DG varies too depending on the source and yard. Some DG is finer dust mixed in with kibble and other is more kibble. I hear the DG that's mostly kibble is more desirable/higher grade stuff. Use of the rocks sounds like an interesting idea but not sure with the types of plants we're considering... I think we'll probably just go with standard mulch in our yard - my wife doesn't like the desert'ish look with prickly/spiny/pointy things :) - I'll likely end up with Toyon/Coffeeberry/Lemonade Berry and maybe some elderberry and possibly Pacific Wax Myrtle more for dedicated hedging in the backyard and in our front we'll kind of go with a CA Native perennial meadow theme (Fuchsia, Buckwheat, Goldenrod, White Sage, Yarrow, Penstemon, Irises, Poppies, etc)

We did our back grass area in gravel I kep the beds for perennials and added huge pots for annulas but we have a ton of trees and my hubby uses the blower mant times in the fall muches the pile and I put it on my raised veggie bed and my raised cutting garden . He just sets the blower lower strength. BTW we live in Creston B.C lots of rain this time of year.

I like your plan! We’ve grown a lot of Ca natives and presently are enjoying chuparosa, flat top buckwheat, and baja fairy duster. No need for a lawn to have a great looking yard and its wonderful that you can have a rebate to help with the conversion.

Maybe you can sneak in some of the non thorny cacti when your wife isn't looking:) They add so much and Burbanks prickly pear, totem ”monstrose” and octopus agave add thorn free drama to our yard.

Thanks @mojavemaria - I just had a local landscape/softscape guy who works with aggregates and specifically DG quite a bit and he was trying to veer me away from it and towards turning our entire yard into a concrete jungle. Our neighbors across the way did what he was trying to convince me of (except they did all pavers and artificial turf in the back) and it feels *extremely* sterile. Low maintenance I get but that's a little too far - I'm not quite sure I'm into giving our yard a corporate business park look LOL.

In any case, some of what he said made sense and he was really poo-pooing on DG due to it ultimately being higher maintenance in the long-term (hence, his push to go with concrete). I'm wondering if it would be within the bounds of the turf removal rebate to do a concrete pad/"paver" grid in the back yard with 2" of permeable separation between each pad/paver.... possibly planting buffalo grass or lippia nodiflora in each strip). I just don't know how the water company defines "pavers" and if concrete squares would qualify. I'll have to call to inquire tomorrow. If we were to do this, I'd still look to plant a hedge of plants along the fence line (the guy was hemming and hawing about how this was still requires maintenance and upkeep and was reminding me to think about what I'm getting myself into... it seems like a bit of an overinflated concern) - perhaps more myrica californica would make sense in our case... the idea for the back is to have a more uniform 'manicured' look of a 'classic' open space yard but with the compromise that I'm using CA natives still for the hedges and groundcover at least. In the front, I would still stick with the original idea though. Maybe stick with a small DG path/patio type setup or pour some concrete in the non-turf area and turn it into an extra patio area... I don't see us using it as such though...

Our neighbor has decomposed granite in his front yard with an olive tree in the middlle and some perimeter plants and it looks pretty low maintenence to me although not as much as a concrete slab!

Maintaining pavers with plants between actually sounds like more work. How big are the pavers? There was a 16 inch paver with gaps between back patio at our house and it was rather awful. The concrete slab is more practical there but we did put in a path coming of it with 2x4 ft poured in place pavers filled in with river rock and hesperaloe between house and path going to the side yard and it looks good and is very low maintenance and water thrifty.

IMHO really large pavers would be good not small ones unless you use them butted together as a solid surface. Decomposed granite maybe with a little few mini hills and perimeter plants would look great also.

If they allow for concrete pad paver set forms with 2-3" gaps, then I'll most likely go that route with this. It kind of feels like a waste because we just had a bunch of demo/excavation done and also re-did the existing concrete portions of the patio. If I had this figured out ahead of time, I could have had them do the forms for the area in mind. The other option of course is just to have very large flagstone pavers brought in and installed in the backyard. I don't know what would cost less though (I'm guessing a cement pour). First things first, I'd have to get sign-off to do something like that.