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mainely_gardening_z5b

Zone 5b (Maine) Hardy Romantic Roses

2 years ago
last modified: 2 years ago

Planning out my rose order for next year, does anyone have experience with these roses or have similar suggestions to add to a romantic mixed border? (full sun)


Looking for fragrance, ideally fruity/citrus, and health (canes have good cold hardiness, good resistance to blackspot - my DAs almost completely defoliated so not very attractive for my front bed, will try neem in spring next year, but ideally something more resistant) ...I have room for 3, max 4, in this location:


Winter Sunset

Moonlight Romantica

Abbaye de Cluny

America (would this go along a fence?)

Lady of the Mist

Golden Celebration (on the fence due to my other DA performance against black spot)

Forever Amber

Fun in the Sun


Also on this list is Tamora (DA but not currently available) The one I had got killed by a contractor but I'm willing to give it another go, it's one of my favorites. If I can't find it I'll fallback to one of the ones above.


Roses nearby:

Dee-lish

Sweet Madamoiselle

Ghislaine de feligonde (trained on fence)

Crown Princess Margareta (trained on mailbox)


And thinking of Sonnenwelt for another area by the house if I can get it

Thanks!

Comments (29)

  • 2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    From your list, I grow:

    Moonlight Romantica - never see blackspot as 3rd-year own-root, but stingy unless week-long rain, scent is just as good as Golden Celebration. Gets tall at 7 feet in late fall.

    America (would this go along a fence?) America as gallon-size own-root stayed short below 2 feet in my zone 5a, then died through my winter.

    Golden Celebration - blackspot as 12th-year own-root in my heavy clay, bought a 2nd one, also blackspot as 1st-year own-root in a pot.

    Nearby rose park grew Tamora (grafted on Dr.Huey) and it had the most blackspots among their 1,200 rose bushes.

    Among my 150+ fragrant roses: Own-root roses have less blackspots than their same varieties grafted on Dr.Huey.

    I grow Queen Nerfetiti and I like the scent better than rosepark's Tamora. I'm looking out my window today 11//21/22 and I don't see blackspots on Queen Nefertiti, it keeps all leaves despite night time temp. of 13 F in my zone 5a. Below is Queen N. pic, taken 11/5/22, left is Savannah. Right dark red cluster is Purple Lodge.


    Queen Nerfetiti is a child of Tamora and Lilian Austin. It's an improvement over Tamora: more petals & better scent & deeper color, color can be yellow, pinkish or orange, see below Queen Nefertiti in July:


    Below is Queen N. when it was 1st year band-size from High Country Roses.


    Below is Moonlight Romantica, super healthy & glossy leaves, scent is worth growing. Can produce lots of blooms if given week-long rain.


  • 2 years ago

    Thank you for the tip about Nerfetiti @strawchicago z5, it seems Tamora is a bit of a lost cause between the black spot and becoming less available 😅...Moonlight Romantica is a strong contender for me based on the performance of my other Meilland's Dee-lish and Sweet Madamoiselle this year with great growth, strong fragrance and good foliage...the only downside for me being a bit tall and "stiff" looking compared to the softer canes, but I guess at least you don't have to go hunting for the face of the blooms they are both very upright

  • 2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    I also have the NIRP rose Anastasia (got from Palatine) and that also did very well with the cold - bushy, glossy leaves, almost no black spot and not until late season but that shot up even taller (close to 6ft) I have it up by our door

  • 2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    Anastasia is very nice, looks like my Tchaikosky (very fragrant, smells like caramel candy). Tchaikosky is 9th year own-root with glossy foliage, never see blackspots, plus blooms are 4 inch across with zillion of petals. It's over 5 feet tall, good cut blooms that last long in the vase:




    Tchaikosky is one of a dozen out-of-patent roses that I root to donate to charities (Catholic nuns who run homeless shelter & oversea orphanages).

  • 2 years ago

    Romantic mixed borders are my favorite way to plant roses. Surprisingly, Austin roses are my most healthy and reliable, but I won't suggest those since they haven't performed well for you.

    Tamora is the exception. Removed one a couple years ago, and thinking about taking out the other. That's rare with Austins. The following are all romantic, old fashioned, mostly shrub or floribunda roses that are good neighbors in a border and great z5 roses.

    Celestial Night

    Guy de Maupassant

    Life of the Party

    Tchaikovsky

    Crazy Love

    Bolero - short

    Moonlight in Paris

    Queen of Elegance







  • 2 years ago

    I want to get a Tamora. Diane's experience sounds like it would love it here. My tobacco plants and scottish harebell campanula rotundifolia both work for Diane and petered out here. I think Diane waters better than I do in Summers here. They both worked for me in Alaska beautifully.

    I guess what I am trying to say is you need local advice Mainely. Your area is so much wetter than out here.

  • 2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    Maine is such a different climate than most of us experience. Are you located Down East? Zone 5b makes me think that may be the case. My grandmother was born and raised on a farm near Kingman. Her mother, my GGM, grew the Banshee rose successfully. That and a lilac were the only flowers I am aware from the farm, as they survived untended after my great grandparents retired and left. No doubt she could have grown some of the once blooming European OGRs had they been available to her.

    Now if you are Down East you should have a lot more scope. I would be interested in knowing what else you grow in your garden. On a recent vacation in Portland, and meeting a cousin I had not seen since childhood, I have become fascinated with Maine gardens. Who knows? Perhaps one day I will be spending more time there.

    Also, I have heard recently that one of the old rose groups is gathering information about what roses do well in very cold climates. If that is so, we may know more soon.

  • 2 years ago

    Here in desert SW Idaho, all my Austins are very winter hardy (and grafted, except own root Abe). Only Jude the Obscure is a bit more cold sensitive than the others. Two very winter hardy roses here are the climber, Colette, a Meilland Romantica with Prairie Princess in her genetic background, I believe, and so called grandiflora Ascot (Tantau). They would probably be much smaller in your climate. It's funny though, that Boise is in the same latitude as southern Maine. This is more apparent when looking at a globe, and both our states are known for their "famous potatoes", groan. Diane





    Ascot and Colette

  • 2 years ago

    Back when there was a lot more regional diversity here, I figured out that with most modern roses, you picked up about half a zone of hardiness between the east coast and the midwest, then another half a zone of hardiness between the midwest and the Rockies. Exactly why this is true, I'm still working on. However, in practice it meant that to get reliable hardiness recommendations from anyone not on the east coast, I was looking for recommendations for cane hardy roses from zone 4.

  • 2 years ago

    I'm actually about 700 miles west of Denver, so you can add another half zone to my area, which is zone 7A. We had a true zone 5 winter in 20016-7, and neither Colette nor Ascot suffered a bit of cold damage. I think Colette is especially hardy. Diane

  • 2 years ago

    Diane - GASP!!! Your roses always blow me away with their size, beauty and ability to form a bloom-fest. :) :)


    Straw - I've always loved your Tchaikovsky and I love how you describe its fragrance. :)

  • 2 years ago

    Thanks all for comments so far! 


    I am in Southern coastal Maine but not "downeast".  


    Diane, for some reason I had been under the impression Collete could only go down to zone 6 - glad you mentioned it, I know know better and will put it on my list.


    For next year, so far I've decided to try out Moonlight Romantica since the Meillands have performed well and been very healthy with little to no black spot


    I'm also going to give Lady of the Mist and Winter Sunset a try, both have been on watching for a while and keep coming back to and Abbaye de Cluny was unavailable...I know of another place I can find it but it'll be one of those race everyone to order type things when the online store opens up and I don't want to count on that/have that kind of stress. 😅


    Someone asked what is growing well for me here, I'll see if I have some pictures to post later, I'm afraid I didn't take many this year so some may be last year's blooms:


    Ghislaine de feligonde

    Dee-lish

    Sweet Madamoiselle

    Johan Strauss

    Soeur Emmanuelle

    Crown Princess Margareta (though defoliated by mid-summer, will try some need oil next year)

    Hot Cocoa

    Distant Drums

    Lady of Shalott (is cane hardy but not much bloom yet)


    I also have a Paul Bocuse and Mme Paul Massad which have survived the winters but I think needed better spots - I moved one and will move the other in spring and see how they do. Bocuse had very nice bloom.

  • 2 years ago

    Also, Sheila, K&M roses might have Tamora if you are looking to order and plant now, may be worth contacting them that's the only place I've found so far. It's too late in the season for me to plant so I'm going to check back again next year.

  • 2 years ago

    I did not know "down east" was northern most Maine. My husband Joe is from Maine so he enlightened me. It relates to "down wind" sailing.

  • 2 years ago

    Found a few pics..the ones of CPM, hot cocoa and ghislaine are all from last year (CPM was still in pot at that time, not sure why her leaves were better then than after I put her in the ground 😩) 


    Hopefully these show up in order (I'm on my phone): Distant Drums, Soeur Emmanuelle, Johann Strauss, Ghislaine de feligonde, Crown Princess Margareta, Hot Cocoa

  • 2 years ago

    And CPM this year probably the best she looked - grew one great big cane, but not much else, may be preparing for a big show next year, that will be year 3 🤞

  • 2 years ago

    That's gorgeous Diane! Such a great color 🧡

  • 2 years ago

    Mainely - (cute name!) I agree.


    Diane - great color! It's not quite coral (which I'm not that fond of). There's some orange in there. :)

  • 2 years ago

    I have a friend who has a "summer home" in the area of Kennebunkport - literally right on the beach. Once when I visited her there, I stopped off at Suzanne Verrier's nursery, which is not far away. Suzanne sold me a rose which she said was perfect for that coastsl Maine climate, so I brought it to my friend as a hostess gift. It is a climbing once bloomer (which in that areas short growing season meant it blooms all season). Suzanne Verrier (who had a lovely nursery, and has written several books about cold weather type roses) really went on and on about how good for that area this rose was. She had one growing, which was about 10 feet high and 6 feet wide, and truly lovely. The bad news is that I have no record of the name of that rose (it is not growing in my garden), except I think it was two words, both starting with a B, I think. I looked and I found a fuzzy pic my friend sent me of it as a baby in its first season, which is in the "Comment" below. Perhaps someone on here will recognize it.

    Jackie



  • 2 years ago

    Here is the pic which goes with the above:




  • 2 years ago

    Two more thoughts:


    The roses which grow on the coast near Kennebunkport (cultivated AND wild) best, in huge hedges, are all rugosas. My friend I mentioned above did not even know they were roses when they first moved in - the locals call them "beach plums".


    I looked up 'Banshee', after someone mentioned it on here - it might be my mystery rose which is pictured above.


    Jackie



  • 2 years ago

    A pink, once blooming climber that Suzy Verrier pushed was Lillian Gibson. It fits your description except for the part about beginning with B.


  • 2 years ago

    Thanks, mad_gallica. I looked at Lillian Gibson, but the one I am trying to ID is way more double, I think. I am just now going to send an email to my friend, so i'll ask her if she kept a record of the name.


    Jackie

  • 2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    Jacqueline, I used to live in ME and definitely romanticized the rugosas that line the coast there. It's lovely to walk down a dune path with the smell wafting. My aunt lives in Ogunquit, next to Kennebunk and I've since found out rugosas are considered "very invasive" in Maine, which is too bad. I do love the smell, the wildness of them and the wonderful hips.

    Mainely, I had the experience of missing out on Abbye but have it marked in a few other places. May we both get one! Diane your incredible photos are making me more determined. :)

  • 2 years ago

    When I bought my first Colette, 25ish years ago, it was rated zone 7. It has since been changed to z5 or 6, depending on where you buy it. I have three, including the first one, and they're all doing just fine. The first one is showing signs of age and needs rejuvenating. One was hit with the weed torch and I lost half of it, but it recovered. Only one of the three wants to climb. They are large shrubs here.

  • 2 years ago

    @Diane @Flowersaremusic, do you get much fragrance on your Colette? 


    I ordered a couple climbers, one being Zephirine Drouhin but now wondering if Colette may have been a better choice. It was one of the first roses I added to my HR wishlist years ago but had passed because of the posted zone hardiness but as you've mentioned it will probably do just fine in z5b so now that's a tough decision for next year 😅

  • 2 years ago

    I think America could go along a fence if its trained early. H How large a climber are you looking for? Iaas a once bloomer acceptable?

  • 2 years ago

    Just a follow-up on the rose I posted a picture of above, which Suzanne Verrier recommended for coastal (literally on the beach) Maine near the Kennebunkport area. I just now noticed it on the latest "roses for sale" list of Vintage Gardens, and recognized the name. It is definitely 'Birdie Blye'. Suzanne had one growing at her nursery, and it was gorgeous in mid summer, even though HMF says it is only hardy to 6B. It is a once bloomer, which in that area's short growing season means it blooms all season, but then goes dormant. Also might be why it is OK with the colder weather, at least right on the coast (my friend's house is between the ocean and a large wetlands bird sanctuary, which might help.


    Jackie