" Can I make a suggestion of the cuts to the fabricator? "

Sure, he can also tell you he is not interested in the project as soon as you try suggestion to him how to do his job. He should lay it all out for you in can and depending on the fabricator he may be open to discussing it or not. I would let him lay it all out and see what he says before you go down the path of suggesting.

it's fair to have a conversation with the fabricator. As you note, you are dealing with a simple stone, no pattern matching, and high uniformity which should be efficient in material use. tell then you are trying to be efficient with material costs. Ask how much waste / material needs to be between pieces cut from a slab. Is there any "hidden directionality" in quartz? LIke a grain you can't see that impacts seaming? these are the things that will impact layout and the finihsed product. Ask questions - most will be happy to teach you if you are interested.

Thanks! The patterns are like large terrazzo (speckles) but extremely faint that unless you see it up close, the slabs look like solid. No veins. Regardless, I take care of directions/orientation in my drawing, everything rolls in the same direction; and there are no seams except where you mitter since these are vanities. It is extremely simple afaik. I'm not talking about the kitchen yet, the vanities are where I saw large waste. There's mitering but there's no waterfall. They are manufactured slabs so the size and print should be uniform. I get it, I want quality fabricator first and then minimize the waste. But they don't have to be mutually exclusive, right? The person I'm talking to is their sales and I'm unsure if he also does the fabrication, so I can place order for fewer slabs and then see what the fabricator say during templating. I'm not complaining about the vendor, but just wanted to understand the process because I cannot expect them to spend hours drawing before I placed a deposit; and before drawing is made, rough estimate would be just rough. I can see wasting one slab but at the current proposal (drawing is next) it'll waste three at least; and I already built waste in my drawing.

For kitchen, they are just large islands with mitering, and a long perimeter. I don't have estimate yet for the kitchen but everything is rectangular and there are just three large pieces, and mitering. It is quite simple too.

I could always give them my drawing as a suggestion and tell them I'm happy to add an extra slab if I can see the reason to. It'll be a waste of effort to not give them my drawing. But I don't want to waste three.

There is a danger in telling someone how to do their job. If you do not trust them, find someone else that you do trust. They may have a solution better than yours.

I had an auto mechanic that had more education than I have, was very blunt, and is a very big man. One day a young man came into his shop to have is Volkswagen Beetle repaired. The young man started to talk to the mechanic about what he felt the problem was and how to repair it. My mechanic walked over to the front end of his beetle, lifted the front end up with his bare hands and said to the young man, "Why don't you just crawl under there and take a little looksie yourself?" The young man let my mechanic do his job.

Let them lay out the pieces the way they want but get approval before.

We had slabs with a lot of movement, but when we picked them, we knew where we wanted the seam to be and which pieces we wanted for certain areas. (Lots of movement on the island, minimal area around the seam.) Our fabricator doesn't normally give approval pictures to the homeowners, but they let us (for a fee) meet them with the slabs and work together on the layout. It was a great experience, and we ended up with exactly what we wanted. They gave their input and we used their advice, but in the end, it is our house, and we wanted what we wanted. It was definitely worth paying for the ability to see it and approve before they cut.

Mark, I wouldn't have hired that mechanics. There are others with better "bed side manner". And I'm not a backseat driver. Clients are intellectual and should be respected as such. Just like we respect the trades folks. Fwiw, you haven't offered any of your professional insights about how slab cutting and drawings are done! And I mean to say it kindly. But I've learned a lot from everyone else. Do you partner with your clients? You'll be surprised how intellectual they are! Partnering doesn't mean clients don't trust you. Thank you.

I'm happy to listen to my fabricator, and if the reasoning is right I'll be happy to purchase more. I was initially going to buy from a stone yard that didn't fabricate, so I'm the free agent to do that drawing. My architect offered to draw the cuts, so I conjecture that fabricators take drawings from architect or other services anyways! I really do think it needs to be a two way process and be client friendly (I'm nice, and not pushy!). It really also isn't complicated with these slabs, but the assignment from the store is very unsophisticated; eg one slab for this bathroom, another for that bathroom and large waste. I also read that fabricators show the drawing to clients before sending the slabs to the cutting machines, so it seems like they want the client to be involved too.
I know when to step back, but my first default is partnering; and we have partnered with all our trade folks so far, and have very loyal crew who've been with us for multiple years. They are professionals with high quality work, we supervise and we tell them what to do and catch their mistakes, and everyone is happy. It is about the relationship. Giving suggestions and feedbacks are not about being bossy.

I think that there's a difference in telling someone how to do their jobs vs being an informed consumer and wanting to understand how their trade / business works.

It's possible here that the miters eat up WAY more than it would first appear as Marionette noted. So if getting the most bang for the buck is an issue - maybe forego the miters and it can help. But - unless you ask the question of the fabricator, then you won't know.

Most folks are happy to help explain their work and appreciate someone who is interested to learn.

Our fabricator laid out a rough diagram of all our countertops with the square footages first, before we even started looking at slabs, so we had an idea of what to look for. We knew some approximate lengths, for example for the long runs that we wanted to use without a seam, so when we were picking slabs, we knew to ignore ones that were too short. Has anyone given you even an approximate layout?

Nobody has given me an approximate layout which is why I needed to draw in order to estimate how many to order. Thanks to all who shared your process, I am now realizing that some fabricators are partnering with clients.
Marionette, please read the above and start posting about the technical, if you have that kind of knowledge. If not, it's totally expected.

PS for the benefit of others, in my experience the contractors also need us. I have gotten multiple phone calls of contractors trying to forge relationship. And we are respectful. I would encourage home owners to not listen to "advices" telling us to be fearful clients, labeling us as micro managing. As long as we are respectful, it should be okay. We've been in this for three years, nearing completion now, and been partnering all along with no contractor quitting on us. Zero.

We're not going to work with contractors who shut us down, and so far nobody does. Money is tight, recession is coming and the number of projects dwindle. One GC told me this, consistent with what the news says.

I'm not changing anything with my crew despite of this, they are paid generously and are very loyal to us. I've worked with the same folks for three years, but I fear it might be hard for them to find similar job once our project is completed.

"The question is, what is the process like for counting how many slabs are needed?"

An employee of the fabricator lays out countertops on the material.

"Can I make a suggestion of the cuts to the fabricator?"

Yes

Marionette, I don't have to lolol. You are micro managing me. Are you in the trade?

For my last four surgeries, I advised the retina specialist, the urologist, and general surgeons as to my well-researched opinions as to the best approach and treatment. They were more than happy to listen and learn...at least til the anesthesia took hold.

"so I conjecture that fabricators take drawings from architect or other services anyways!"

They template and measure themselves, nothing is taken from someone else after the guestimate stage.

"I also read that fabricators show the drawing to clients before sending the slabs to the cutting machines"

Yes, the better fabricators have you look at CAD drawings and sign off on he layout so there are no surprises, protects everyone.

There have been respectful requests for the diagram but you don't come across as respectful. The transport and other costs are already in the quote. They shouldn't affect diagramming. They cannot. It's a separate part of the process. I don't want to waste my time and yours!

Are you in the trade? Do I hurt your business with my question? Is waste, or fearful clients better for you?

To others (including Mark), thanks for the insight.

I'm asking humbly because I don't have knowledge of stone diagramming (except from what I have researched so far).
But I'm a mathematician and wrote diagramming software used in various industries for cutting, with professors whose research were on diagramming. We're hired to do this so that people like stone fabricators can just plop the rectangles in the code and get efficient solutions that respect their constraints. Then you move it around manually via the graphical user interface.
So yes, I'm very qualified in diagramming and know a lot of the parameters, including many weird ones. I don't claim to know exactly about stone diagramming but I'm likely 90% there. Closer than your typical homeowners. It is shocking for me to see so much waste, many unnecessary.

I think I get enough education from this thread though, so thanks sincerely to all who offered real insights!

If I find a good fabricator who partners with me, I'll post here or in other places so the community can benefit from it too. I'm in the middle of holiday travel and will soon be in read only y mode. Thanks so much to everyone who keeps the discussion relevant, technical and intellectual.

"As long as we are respectful, it should be okay."

I think, and I could be wrong, but I think "make[ing] a suggestion of the cuts to the fabricator" may be perceived, by some fabricators, as being disrespectful to them. I could be wrong.

Thanks Mark, I'll be sensitive to that. I will place slabs order using my count for now, and be prepared to throw in an extra slab if requested (but not three extra slabs..). I already included an extra slab just for cutting the mitered edge strips (on top of the 7" waste per slab I built for the countertops).

" and be prepared to throw in an extra slab if requested "

Just make sure they are all from the same dye lot as the color could be considerable different if from another,

Slabs can be art you look at and live with in your daily life. A good fabricator may have artistic ability. Some are limited. I would choose the slabs with a goal of producing the most attractive surface possible. This may require less than the most efficient use of the material. It may lead to the rejection of slabs that have the material to meet the space requirements. Using the color variation, figuring and pattern of the material is important. The counter visually can be the most dramatic aspect of the space. Especially if a large island and/or the material is used as a slab backsplash. These aesthetic impacts shouldn't be left to a fabricator. You or you and your designer must control and sign off on the steps to the best finished product. A good fabricator will have experience doing this as a team member.

Anon:

In my days as a fabricator, you would tell me your ideas and what you wanted. I would give you a couple proposals reflecting same. You would take them or leave them. I'm not the least bit interested in what math you've worked on. You get what, where, when, and why. I keep how and who, nonegotiable.

I strongly advise you to be more chill in your approach. Whenever potential clients tell me about their background, they immediately go on double secret probation and that gets them a PIA fee.

I don't plan on telling a fabricator about who I'mI'm and my background lol. It is reserved for non respectful people at Houzz.

OK -- I'm confused. I just re-read your original post. Who exactly is telling you to buy extra slabs? Do they even know the size of the slabs you're looking at?

And just to make sure, you know that your miters have to come from the adjacent cut - you mentioned that the 7" can be moved around. No it can't.

When I was doing custom cabinets or trim. If the folks acted like that I split. I did before too after the general contractor told me how to do my job. If you don't want any guarantees then design it. They will build it n laugh all the way to the bank after you overpaid for a job that will fail. But hey you got exactly what you want. A custom counter takes a tremendous amount of skill to be able to read the rock n where it will work best first. Prettiest is kinda further down theneed . And good ones can make magic from stuff that is unheard of. This is why they are pros.

You appear to be the type that probably asked for references n photos of work. And probably visited with those references and asked more questions that they did. And gave you a good recommendation because they listened to the pros.

There are folks here that work between the public n pros of every profession. And can give you expert advice to your questions. But seem to already have the answers.

I'm just trying to help like everyone here so please consider this constructive criticism.

Ok with constructive criticism but my GC said in Houzz I don't know who I'm talking to and it's better if I will take anything posted with a grain of salt. I'm lucky that the trade folks I have been working with are invariably nicer than some guys here.. As I said nobody has quit my job. But I have declined some bids. The quartz bids coming today were weird and the estimates from some vendors vary wildly, as much as by twice the number of slabs, for the same project and the same colors. I think homeowners need to do their homework. My house ' framing and plumbing and electrical look like work of art. I have tradesmen who educate me of my choices.
I'm almost done and I have a helpful GC, so I'm counting my lucky stars.
I will be careful with my communications with vendors, as I've always been. Thanks again, but as I said.. I tried to ask nicely.. and got literally attacked here. You guys have baggage? The homeowners are nice though.

Just stopping in to suggest that other horizontal surfaces in the bathroom(s) also be considered. Will the shower curb be the same quartz as the countertop? The bottom and/or shelves in any shower niches? Any windowsills? Tops of pony walls? If these will also be quartz, those cuts need to be planned as well and could impact the number of slabs needed.

Thanks Sofia! Yes there's a list of all the cuts needed and they are all accounted for. My tiler introduced me to the bidders. The lower bidder explained to me that the miters don't have to be cut from the same slabs because I have no complicated patterns to worry about. You have to cut from the same slab if you have veins you want to continue. So if you want to save money, use simple slabs. Statement slabs cost more, and we might choose to have some in select areas, but it is not within the current scope yet.
I consider myself lucky with my trade folks. So I really don't know what you guys talked about, wishing me bad luck that doesn't exist? We pay well and treat our workers well and the good karma is returned. The house is extremely well done, costs controlled, and the crew sent presents for the kids. This is a large high end project and it's been delivered as such.
To some (not all) posters here, please have this as a constructive feedback. Please be kind to homeowners and you might get more clients, more long term clients, and larger projects. If you post like this and prospective clients check, you might not get hired. Truly, clients are nice, please don't act like we are there to "get you".

If you already know everything, why are you asking these questions? You haven't posted your layouts, so how is anyone supposed to be able to advise you as to how many slabs you need or how to plan the cuts, etc.? Let the professionals do their job. Once they show you the layouts, I think it is more than reasonable to ask questions if this or that can be done differently. But they probably will have their reasons why it can't be done your way, so don't be shocked. Keep questioning their expertise and they will happily tell you to find another contractor.

The very same people telling the OP to trust your fabricator would be blaming the OP for not properly vetting the fabricator if he does a bad job. Whether or not you like it, there are bad actors out there.

Since we had a post here about mechanics, let's remember that once every couple of years television news programs will pull out auto mechanic undercover investigation and they almost always find that half or more of the repair shops scam consumers with unnecessary repairs.

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It is entirely possible that there is a reason that the fabricator can't do it the way you propose. It is also possible that the fabricator is simply on a different page with the project than you are and some communication will help get everyone together. However, there is a solid chance that the fabricator is taking advantage of you.

The fabricator should be willing to communicate his/her reasoning with you in an understandable way. If the fabricator is not willing to do that, then you should find someone who is. In my experience, honest contractors have no problem informing the consumer and the people who refuse to explain are almost always the people who have no explanation.

Thus my advice is ask the fabricator to walk you through the number of slabs he is recommending rather than you suggesting cuts. If he refuses to do so, then statistically, you are better off finding someone who will.

Yes this thread had turned into very negative and I don't want to respond. I obviously stepped on some toes, apparently asking questions is not allowed. And being not expert is wrong. And being an expert is also wrong lol. I don't want to post any pictures because it's not useful with"pros" who are just interested in being negative and unkind. I found my crew very helpful and willing to educate me though! So I am in a very good state now, and don't really need help anymore. It is also the very last vendor I need so I'm pretty much done, everything is already specified and I just need to complete the bidding process.

Thanks for the kind posters who's been patiently explaining the process. Good luck with your project and business!

@aklogcabin - What does any of that have to do with the OP's question?

This is just the standard, "running a business is hard," attempt to generate sympathy. It is your job as a business owner to properly account for and schedule for contingencies. As with all businesses sometimes you will get it right and sometimes you will get it wrong, but again... it has nothing to do with the OP's question.

The OP asked about questioning a fabricator's design because of the excess waste associated with it. That is a completely reasonable question and any reputable fabricator should be willing to discuss that with the OP. I would personally recommend the OP attempt to discuss the fabricator's design rather than tell them how to do it, but noting: "I came up with this and I understand it may not work, but if you could take a moment and help me understand why it will not work, I would appreciate it." is perfectly valid. If your contractor doesn't respect you enough to respond to that openly and politely then you just dodged a bullet.

Bravo. my God - the level of animosity shown to folks wanting to ask questions and ensure they are getting the right value for their hard earned money is atrocious.

And as noted - the same folks would lambaste the OP if s/he'd come here with a story about bad layout and not educating themselves on a good fabricator - or - being told they got screwed because the fabricator charged them for 3 slabs and then cut corners to use 2.....

There's NO REASON the OP's question or curiousity can't be addressed professionally by all parties and have a good working relationship.

A lot of these decisions and the technical and process are made to sound like rocket science when they are not. As if what we ask are trade secrets: ait is. It is where the money is. You don't know everything and you're not going to run the saw yourself, but you know a good deal more than you think you do. The only way to protect ourselves is by getting bids for everything and vet their work and attitude. And yes, we need to communicate carefully always (thanks sincerely for giving me some of the words!). Take car

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