" 1/16” grout lines on our white subway tile bathroom installation."

Where in the bathroom are these tiles being installed?

Floor to bottom of window height on all 4 walls, though the tub/shower area and edge of wing wall will go to 10” below ceiling.

I want pencil thin, 1/16” grout lines on our white subway tile bathroom installation. Uneven lines or tiles that project more than others will drive me nuts. Should spacers be used by the installer?These are Daltile 3x6 subway tiles. Tried to show in pics what I think might be the ridge / lip she is talking about.

I had the 3 x 6 Daltile subway tile installed in my upstairs bath. Below is a photo of my tile.

Our architect wants to specify not using spacers so the lines can be very thin. She says there is a built in lip to these tiles so spacers are not needed.

She is correct. There is a built in lip.

I asked our GC what his installer likes to do and the answer was ”He just does whatever the client asks for.” The GC thinks that without spacers there might not be enough grout applied and therefore not as much water protection.

I'm sorry but that's an ignorant statement. Grout IS NOT waterproofing. In fact, if a shower is properly waterproofed, you don't need tile or grout to shower in it. You could shower in it with just the waterproof membrane.

This might sound like a dumb thing to mention but make sure those walls are plumb and even to begin with. I learned a while back that not all contractors make sure of it unless it's specified language- and then the tile setter just works with the surface they get. Considering they seem to think that grout is for water protection is disconcerting. There should be waterproofing already in place before the tile goes in. So the plumb thing might also not be there.

The contract says in the bathroom for the walls - "Steel stud frame, durock, laticrete waterproof, and tile." Is this appropriate and enough for a bathroom wall waterproofing? He did not say grout's main purpose is for waterproofing, but that he doesn't think it is great for water and dirt to get in behind tiles. Sorry if my language in paraphrasing him was misleading.

1. How do I make sure the walls are plumb and even to begin with? (Not dumb @beesneeds! Glad you mentioned it.) I asked him about that this week - having the walls straight so the tiles don't stick out and he said they would be sure of that. But beyond his word, is there some way for me to check or be sure they are plumb before tile goes on?

2. Still, what do others think about spacers or not? @cpartist Because there is a lip and my architect is correct, does that mean you argree spacers are not needed?

@cpartist Your tile job is gorgeous. Did they use spacers in yours? The lines are so thin. What color is your grout?

You make sure that its in the contract that walls will be plumb and straight.

Agree spacers are not needed. My tile guy did not use them

Tile the bathroom yourself. I recently substantially completed a bathroom remodeling of my own, doing the work myself, with some help from my sons. Maybe within the year all the work will actually be completed. I learned a lot. I learned more than I wanted to learn. The skill level and experience of the installer is very important. You will not want me to be your installer.

@Mark Bischak, Architect With your new found tiling expertise, any insights on using spacers or not?

No way, 100% not going to install the tile myself. Never. (Maybe you were joking?) . Zero desire to add this to my skill set in life. As my husband says, "Specialization! I'm not going to ask a tile installer to write a legal brief nor would he want me to try to do his job - it would come out horribly." My husband literally has a hard time changing a light bulb. Plus, the work is written into our contract.

@cpartist - The ship saled a few months ago on negotiating and signing the contract so I can't get plumb walls added to it. The only things that can get added are change orders, but it sounds like plumb walls are a quality issue and not a specific added on task.

How does one tell if walls are plumb prior to tiling?

I have mentioned in another thread how I have sat in my master bathroom and noticed all the imperfections in the shower tile work. Now, after remodeling my other bathroom myself, I sit in my master bathroom and see the skill that was applied in the installation of the tile.

Leave the use of spacers up to your installer, and appreciate the work with all its imperfections and beauty of something create by the hand of a craftsman.

@Mark Bischak, Architect This is why when building a house, every bathroom in the house must be done perfectly in front of the toilet because that is the only place that usually ends up on the last walkthrough list at the end of the 1st year because everything is being thoroughly inspected and noticed lol

@Kendrah If tiles already have a built-in spacer they can be stacked without additional spacers...Not to mention you can always check manufacturer installation specs for that tile.

The only instructions that came with these tiles were one sentence printed on the box: Do not space tiles closer than 1/16". How do I know if the edge (built-in spacer) is more or less than 1/16"? I don't just want to guess that it is fine. I contact the company and their reply was all installation instructions come with the boxes.

I took a tile and held it up on various places of the wall and in a few areas it didn't sit flush but rocked back and forth. I suppose that means it is not plumb?

They will (they should) make it everything nice and level when installing so if a wall needs some prep work to be done they can check with a level and fill in the low spots so they can start tile installation with a flat and leveled surface.

Good luck

Plumb is straight on the vertical. If everything isn't all plumb and square, you can face the possibility of uneven tile cuts or grouting to accomidate that. If you are as particular as you say about the eveness of the tile and grout spacing, it's something that might bother you. It does not bother a lot of people unless things are way off.

If it's not in the specified language, then it's not. The contractor may or may not do it just as part of their work. Some do, some don't. A way to check it is to use a plumb line.

I've used that exact tile before. It butts together with no spacer, and creates an automatic 1/16" +/- spacing. You do not need perfect walls for a 3x6 subway tile. A good tile setter will make it look great. A bad tile setter can screw up anything (as can be seen in many posts here).

Thanks all. @Seabornman bery helpful to hear your experiences with this tile.

This is an 80 year old apartment buliding. I can’t imagine that anything will be plub because of settling. For example, we have a door that closes on its own because of slanting/shifting what, walls, floors floors, door frame?

With this being the case how does one get a nice tile job without perfectly plumb walls?

Also, there is a horizontal seam in the durock the put up in the shower and vertical seams elsewhere. How do those get smoothed out and not compromise the installation? Is it usually the guys who build the wall that address this or the tile installer?

Tile is just a decorative finish. The entire shower needs to be waterproof before the tile goes up. Whoever is responsible for building the shower needs to properly seal those seams.

With your new found tiling expertise, any insights on using spacers or not?

If you want 1/8" grout lines then yes, use spacers. If you want the 1/16" grout lines DO NOT use spacers. As for there being an issue? My tile has been up for 4 years with no issues.

Do not space tiles closer than 1/16". How do I know if the edge (built-in spacer) is more or less than 1/16"? I don't just want to guess that it is fine

STOP IT!! The tile lip is for a 1/16th inch space. They are meant to be put in that way. I watched my tiler do it.

How do those get smoothed out and not compromise the installation? Is it usually the guys who build the wall that address this or the tile installer?

They get taped over and mudded.

I would highly suggest that if you hired qualified guys who follow TCNA standards you let them do their job at this point and not micromanage. Like you said you are not a tiler anymore than they are lawyers.

@cpartist Stop what? What am I to know that the lip is 1/16th of an inch? I’m merely trying to educate myself about the process, espe especially after reading at least three posts this week where tile jobs came out horribly and all the comments were ”you should have made sure your installer did xyz.” I’ve never had tiling done before so this is all new to me.

If you want to know if there is a 1/16th of an inch of lip, get a micrometer and start measuring tiles. There will likely be small tolerances due to manufacturing.

Daltile's customer service is very responsive in my experience--I'd just call and ask for your specific tiles.

Kendrah, you said you already called Daltile and they told you the instructions are on the boxes. I used the exact same tiles you're planning to use and I assured you that the tiles fit together beautifully. And yes, they're 1/16" wide grout lines. Seabornman also reassured you yet you still are not satisfied.