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jason_carlton26

Should I move this Yuletide Camellia?

I planted a Yuletide Camellia in May 2022 in what I think is a part shade area. It gets direct sun in the mornings, and then dappled sun (through a white pine and a red oak) for the rest of the day. It's to the West of a large Roseum Elegans Rhododendron, and it had a few blooms on it over the winter.


Here are details on it, and it's supposed to be good with part shade:

https://southernlivingplants.com/the-collection/plant/yuletide-camellia/


Here's the area, today at 2:30pm. Please forgive me for not mowing before the pic! LOL


The camellia is just behind the purple foxglove that you see blooming in the middle.


This is what it looks like close up:


There was a foxglove coming up right next to it that I meant to relocate, but now they're blooming :-/ There's also a Virginia Creeper in that pic, which I was able to pic up and move to a different area afterward.


You can see that I have a few healthy-looking limbs:


But most look like this:


What do you think, should I move it to a new location? Maybe more sun, or less water? Or just leave it be and let life fine a way?

Comments (15)

  • 3 years ago

    I think I'd get a new one, have a look to see what is going on where that one is planted and determine what is not nice about the spot. Poor drainage? I think you'll need a very different spot for the new one - if you get a new one.


    And I'd first remove the unhappy one. Wave it on to the next life, if there is a next life.

  • 3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    OTOH, if I were in the mood I would dig up the sad plant, remove any soil attached to the roots, pot it up, cut it back hard and see what it does.

  • 3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    I'm leaning the same direction. There's an azalea about 6' to the South of it, the rhododendron to the East, and Foxglove all around, so I don't think that drainage is an issue? But it's obviously not happy here.


    The only variable I'm on the fence about is that we DID have a cold snap over the winter, hitting 3F.

    Regardless, I'm about to dig it up, put it in a new place, and see what happens.


    Downside is, I can't think of what else to put in this spot :-(

  • 3 years ago

    Three degrees F. is -16 degrees C. Ouch. We get frosts where I am, but not that cold. I don't know if that was the problem but somehow I doubt it.

    Poor drainage is not affecting the rhododendron or the azalea, but that doesn't mean that the camellia isn't in a spot with poor drainage. You won't know unless you look.


    It could also be that the rootball became dry and water-repellent at some time. Again, you won't know unless you look (though maybe it became moist again).


    The plant is really not very healthy. Even the 'healthy' bit is not healthy. It's very close to being an ex-plant.

  • 3 years ago

    ...that doesn't mean that the camellia isn't in a spot with poor drainage. You won't know unless you look.


    How will I know? Do I dig it up and just guess based on how wet the ground is underneath?


    I'm reading that this camellia is generally hardy down to 5F, so I guess it's possible that 3F in red clay soil could have frozen long enough and hard enough to have damaged the roots. Regardless, I have plenty of other places that it would fit in fine if it survives, so I'll move it tomorrow. I meant to move it today, but it started to rain early and messed up my whole day :-/

  • 3 years ago

    Something else is wrong here, cold was not the only factor but may have aggravated the situation for a plant alread in serious decline.


    I think we also got down to 3 F this past winter here in 7A/NJ (near the minimum of 0-5)


    This is how mine looked in March.





  • 3 years ago

    I dug it up on Sunday, here's a pic I took of the root system:



    Nothing stood out as "bad" to me; no obvious pest damage, anyway.


    I moved it to another area that has afternoon sun, and I think has better drainage. That's all I really know to do.


    Also, I realized that this camellia came from Lowes last year. Plants I've bought there in the past have always been hit-and-miss, so it could have just been a bad one from the beginning.

  • 3 years ago

    Maybe related, maybe not, but I just discovered yesterday that my butterfly bush (buddleja) died, too! It was well established, at least 10 years old. It's done just fine every year, but this year it's just... dead.

  • 3 years ago

    I wonder if it just died out because it didn't get enough water. How long had it been in the ground. I didn't read everything, so you may have said. Sometimes big box store plants are very rootbound and it's hard to water the rootball. Did you rough up the rootball before planting?

  • 3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    I can't see any of the original pictures.


    eta the pix are back!

  • 3 years ago

    @Dave in NoVA • N. Virginia • zone 7A, that's an excellent point about big box stores! I honestly don't remember if I roughed it up or not; sometimes I do, but sometimes I forget.


    I planted it in early May of last year (2022). It did well all year, and bloomed at some point over the winter (I don't remember the exact date). So the "crash" happened sometime between January and April.

  • 3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    What is the yellow stuff on the roots? It looks like builder's sand at a glance. Did you add anything to your soil at planting? Builder's sand is very fine and will be a death sentence for most things.


    ETA: Don't believe anything you read on a packet. You need to open it up and have a look and use your judgement.

  • 3 years ago

    Absolutely did not add anything like sand!! Although I think the previous homeowners added sand to the back yard before I bought it (some 20 years ago), there shouldn't be anything like that in this location.


    (Why did they do that? I couldn't say. I don't know if they thought it would fix the terrible drainage problem, or maybe they had a child's sandbox that they just dumped. Either way, the ground on the opposite side of this area is heavily compacted and feels more like sand than dirt.)


    I spent 15 years trying to get grass to grow in this location, then gave up and decided to just expand the shade garden about 5 years ago. The soil should just be a blend of red clay with about 3 inches on top of decomposed oak leaves, pine needles, and compost.


    When I "dug" it up, I really just slid the shovel underneath and the whole thing popped out like a baby tooth! I didn't even use my feet to push the shovel in. So what you're seeing is the original potting soil with a little bit of ground soil that the roots held on to.

  • 3 years ago

    @tete_a_tete How do you figure that builder's sand has particle sizes that are going to harm a plant in the ground? You understand that most native soil is a combination of clay, silt, and sand? Diameters are:

    Builder's sand is normally specified between 0.6 mm and 2.0 mm, so quite coarse.

    Silt is 0.002 mm and clay is even less than 0.002 mm.

    So builder's sand is about 1000 times LARGER than native soil made of clay and silt.

    I have never had sand added into a clay or clay loam soil fail to improve it. The problem is you need far too much of it to really change enough soil to impact plants.

  • 3 years ago


    I meant brickie's sand - I thought builder's sand and brickie's sand were the same thing. Brickie's sand has very small particles.


    Yes, one would need far too much (coarse) sand to create better drainage in a very clay soil, but that is not the only reason for not adding coarse sand to clay. There are much better ways to improve a clay soil than adding sand.