So the panel on the freezer is okay? but not the fridge.

"She (designer) owns kitchen shop and all money went through her contract for this installer, who happens to be the father of one of the designers she employs."

That's the answer you need. The CONTRACT assumes and includes install, yes? What does that contract say, exactly. The paper you signed, when the order was placed....."

Then you give it all to your attorney, and you proceed to procure a good trim pro who can read and follow detailed instructions.

Bill her. Or get the CC company to reverse until a resolution or other advice from the attorney.

@blfenton it does not appear to be detached/seperated by wood like the right side.

Stop payment on the credit card. That will grab their attention. I would walk into the showroom and confront her and follow up with an email recapping that conversation ( you might need it for the credit card dispute - document everything that has happened so far.).

I also looked at the installation "instructions" - and I will use that term loosely - they are horrible - just pictures no desciption of the pieces or what is actually happening. There has got to be an adjustment for the doors( I would suspect in the hinges ) , but hard to figure out from the directions. I would reach out to Thermador as well - maybe they can help with how to adjust the doors. You could also ask your appliance salesperson if they do the install for the ref and the panels - maybe they can give you a quote you can use in your fight .

If other cabinets weren't installed properly, then this was probably too much for the experience of this particular installer.

So sorry this is happening.

Is it leveled evenly? left side/right side and back to front? I dont' even know if something that big and heavy would have the plane thrown off if it was not level.

@blfenton it does appear leveled. Which is why we are so confused why they do not line up!

80 pages of eye-opening, attention-getting, fear-inducing, picture-only instructions would make me think twice about the product, given that I would have to disrupt the installation some day for some purpose, even if I didn't do the installation. Thermador's writers may think the world of installers are all factory trained. It takes me an hour to re-install and align my Miele Optima so it is correctly fitted whenever I need it out of its cavity.

@blfenton: "So the panel on the freezer is okay? but not the fridge."

I believe the problem is that the refrigerator and freezer are not attached together correctly so that the doors are not in the same plane. The only way to know is to remove the custom panels and check.

@Debbi Washburn: "There has got to be an adjustment for the doors( I would suspect in the hinges ) , but hard to figure out from the directions."

The custom panels can only be adjusted side-to-side and up-and-down as shown on page 73. The instructions follow the IKEA model: no text so anyone regardless of language spoken can perform the installation.

"Appears" No You use a BIG level, There is no "appear" . There is level and a bit OFF level, in degrees.

It sounds like they have to be level as a unit and not just individually. So it might be time to take off the panels and get someone in who knows what they're doing and get this unit leveled.

"@JAN MOYER designer is ignoring our emails"

Ignore her invoices.

She already paid in full, Joe

I had something similar happen with a SubZero refrigerator. The adjustment was made to the actual refrigerator door, not the panel. The panel should be applied per the instructions, flush with the refrigerator door. Call whoever you ordered the refrigerator from and have them send out a technician to correct the doors. And the cabinet installer needs to return and install the panel per the instructions.

Off topic...but I have started having the appliance company install all appliances and panels. I order the panels...they install them. Works out great!

Appliance panels...SIGH.... Love how they LOOK! Despise having to order them.

@The Kitchen Place interesting you say that- we heard back from the designer that they will be sending us a check (1/3 of the cost of the panels) to hire an outside installer on our own. Have not received the check. We reached out to where we bought the appliances from and they gave us the number of an installer they use who will be coming by to check out what is wrong with the install. Hoping that will correct it!

My cabinet installers are the best around...and totally qualified to do it. In fact they installed a subzero panel for me last week because it took a year for homeowner to get the unit. The factory made to spec panels were not applied to the backer panels by the factory correctly....so it took them a lot more time to install them. They are just a PITA. :-)

But typically....I will order panels for my clients...but they must get the appliance co. to install them. I think it works out best that way.

Late in to the convo, but, yes, call your credit card company right now. That's what they are there for...to help a customer in distress. Then sit back and see how quickly they come to help you.

I have had to resort to it a few times, successfully.

" the top overhanging panel is not aligned with the below two panels...He explained the installer used the shims to make the refrigerator panels appear to be flush with the cabinet above....the above cabinet or it’s panel bowed, or is it an install issue?

Post new photograph(s) of the three panels showing problem areas. Don't take the photos from too close.

Place a level or other straightedge horizontally across the refrigerator from one edge to the other. Repeat in several places from top to bottom. Is the pair of panels (together) completely flat?

Repeat the tests across the horizontal panel above the refrigerator. Is that panel completely flat?

Are the sides of the refrigerator panels a consistent distance from adjacent walls on both sides, top to bottom?

Are the three sides of the horizontal panel a consistent distance from adjacent walls on all sides?

@wdccruise the sides of the horizontal panel are not an equal distance from the side walls

"the sides of the horizontal panel are not an equal distance from the side walls"

If that's the only problem, examine that panel's hinges. Some hinges have slots for the screws that attach the hinge to the cabinet. If this is the case, loosen the hinge screws, center the panel on the opening, and re-tighen the screws.

@wdccruise

@bry911 the email said to use the check to find another installer and thats what she would have paid her guy for two days. It did not say final payment in the check or elude to that in the email.

Problem is we cannot get someone out who knows what the problem is, other then to say ’install’ issue.

Unfortunately your photos aren't showing the problem. You posted a photo of the hinge after stating that, "the sides of the horizontal panel are not an equal distance from the side walls" but it's not clear whether the panel (i.e., door) is not centered horizontally on the cabinet or the cabinet is not centered horizontally in the refrigerator opening. Also, the original problem was that the three panels were not flush with one another but the horizontal-centering problem has nothing to do with that.

@wdccruisethe photo was to show the hinge style is different then the photo you sent.

Once the two below panels/doors were corrected, the problem now lies with the top horizontal panel. The bottom of that panel is overhanging the below two panels. It ’pops’ out along the bottom from the center to the right side, almost giving the appearance that something in the cabinet is sticking out behind it. I am wondering if the right side hinge in the picture was installed too far forward.

@nskeca - The bottom of that panel is overhanging the below two panels. It ’pops’ out along the bottom from the center to the right side, almost giving the appearance that something in the cabinet is sticking out behind it. I am wondering if the right side hinge in the picture was installed too far forward.

You really need to post a pic of the current problem as I am struggling to visualize the problem.

This picture represents the visual I am constructing in my head...

On the left (over the freezer?) the plane of the cabinet front lines up with the plane of the freezer panel, but on the right the horizontal cabinet begins to protrude proud of the plane of the refrigerator panel.

If that visual is correct, it seems either the horizontal panel is warped (unlikely). Or the refrigerators are ganged together improperly. The hinges are adjustable and so you can adjust the hinge on the right side in to see if the problem goes away. If there is no room to bring the hinge on the right side in, then bring the hinge on the left side out and see if the horizontal cabinet is proud by a uniform amount across the face.

However, if the cabinet stays correct above the left panel and bad above the right, it is unlikely to be a problem with the hinge adjustment.

@bry911 your visual is correct. We had an appliance installer out last week who said the Thermadors and front panels are mow installed correctly.

Also, when you open the ref/freez doors and look up, you can see that when closed as normal, the top horizontal panel has a wider gap where the bottom meets the cabinet base on the right vs on the left.

Sidenote: we had at least 5 warped cabinets we had to send back to Ultracraft. How would we now determine if that is the case with this panel now that it is installed?

"we had at least 5 warped cabinets we had to send back to Ultracraft. How would we now determine if that is the case with this panel now that it is installed?"

I explained in an earlier comment how to check using a level or other straightedge if panel(s) are flat.

"the top horizontal panel has a wider gap where the bottom meets the cabinet base on the right vs on the left."

You need to adjust the hinge(s) so any gaps between the door (aka panel) and cabinet are the same and minimized. I don't know the brand and model of your hinges but if you look at page 28 of the installation instructions for a similar IKEA UTRUSTA hinge, you see that this hinge can be adjusted to move the door up-down, left-right, and in-out. You need to adjust your hinge(s) in-out. Do not adjust the hinge so it pulls the door too close to the cabinet. If you do that, the door may hit the top of the cabinet preventing it from fully closing and minimizing the gap between it and the bottom of the cabinet.

@wdccruise - The OP noted that the left side (the side above the freezer) is in plane with the freezer panel. The panel is only out of plane on the right side (above the refrigerator panel) where it begins in plane in the center and protrudes on the right.

If that is the case, adjusting the hinge is not going to help.

Again, can we get a picture of everything closed and see the protrusion as it is now. preferably showing it even above the left freezer panel and protruding above the right refrigerator panel? Plus a picture of the right side of the horizontal cabinet door.

@bry911:

I wrote twice that she needs to use a level or straightedge to check whether the panel above the refrigerator is flat left-to-right. I suppose the cabinet could not be square; who knows?

There's a lack of consistency so it's hard to know what the problem is:

• "The bottom of that panel is overhanging the below two panels. It ’pops’ out along the bottom from the center to the right side"
• "I am wondering if the right side hinge in the picture was installed too far forward."
• "the top horizontal panel has a wider gap where the bottom meets the cabinet base on the right vs on the left."

Having warpped cabinet, it tells me it is to hummid in the house

@https://www.houzz.com/user/webuser-267333369 the warped cabinets arrived out of the shipping box that way. This cabinet was installed as a replacement and because it is not a typical side install, hard to tell. The humidity in our home is regulated.

"the warped cabinets arrived out of the shipping box that way"

Where were the cabinets created, and through what humid destinations did they pass on the route to YOU?

North Carolina is humid : ) A warehouse in North Carolina could be quite humid.

@https://www.houzz.com/pro/janinroch/jan-moyer every single door ended up being replaced because of the warping, shipping damage, lack of paint, etc.

The quality of these ’high-end’ cabinets are just poor. Even many of the replacements came damaged that a contract refinisher was sent to come in from Ultracraft who even left some areas sanded but not finished. Been quite the experience

following

@https://www.houzz.com/user/wdccruise I used a level in the base of the cabinet and that looks good. I opened the cabinet, and as you can see from the picture, it is uneven making me think the caninet is in fact warped

@https://www.houzz.com/user/bry911 please see picture- to me the cabinet appears warped based on when i open it and stand back. The cabinet is level based on the level in the picture, but the panel slants upward to the right. So warped or installed incorrectly?

the top of the panel proves it has to do with one or the other and not what is below, for if you zoom in, you can see the right side of the top is slanted up

Provide pictures requested by @bry911 above in the third paragraph.

Using a level or straightedge, is the face of the horizontal panel below the handle flat?

@https://www.houzz.com/user/bry911 here are some more pics. It is hard to use a level along the underneath of the handle. I took an underneath picture to show the widening gap as it goes to the right, but the interior cabinet base is level. It is frustrating not knowing if it is the install or the actual cabinet panel being warped causing the misalignment, but assuming its one of the two.

I'm sorry but I can't tell what's going on from your photos or explanations so I'm going to stop here.

The center stile on the upper cabinet would make me nuttier than the warps ...............: (

Has nobody just taken the door off the hinges and laid it on a flat surface to see if it’s warped? If it isn’t, the issue is likely a hinge adjustment.

Or check the 90 degree corners of the cabinet box to make sure it isn‘t racked.

@https://www.houzz.com/pro/kristinpetro/kristin-petro-interiors-inc I am not sure. The designer’s installer had come back to try to fix it, and we do not know what he did or did not do, except leave pieces of wood falling out from behind the refrig panels the following week. So for whatever reason, he tried to adjust the refrig panels and not the panel above, or the panel above was not fixable so he tried moving the panels below.

Instead of sending her installer back, she sent us a check to pay someone else- which will void our warranty in the contract

@https://www.houzz.com/pro/janinroch/jan-moyer I did not want uniform cabinets and chose that but thank you. I did not know it would be so challenging for the 3 panels to line up!

I STRONGLY suspect the issue is with the refrigerator installation and not the cabinets.

First, I put a straight line on the cabinet front.

Next, I moved that line without changing its pitch at all to the front of the cabinet door.

You can clearly see the right side is not in line with the cabinets and so if the door is true (which it should be), the hinges just need to be adjusted. No biggie... Just do as @Kristin Petro Interiors, Inc. suggested to check for any top to bottom warp (which is extremely unlikely).

Next, I moved the line to the refrigerator flange (again without changing the pitch of the line).

You can now see the flange is not straight across.

Next I moved to the front of the refrigerators (again without changing the pitch of the line).

This is significantly off.

I added some color to the variation to show how off this is.

Before you run out and believe I have solved this... I really don't understand how your right side is lining up when your refrigerator is clearly installed out of whack. It absolutely could be a trick of the camera, your best option is to get an experienced cabinet installer there to look at the entire thing.

Once again, this should not be your problem. I really would have preferred you not accept the check and simply told the cabinet retailer that this is their problem and they need to fix it at their expense. If they can't get their cabinet person out to fix it, they should be responsible for finding someone who can. However, after accepting the settlement for this problem, I am afraid you are stuck.

@https://www.houzz.com/user/bry911

here are some more pictures. I think you may be right- looking up, the refrig and freezer columns are almost pushed inward in the center. It almost appears the center of the refrig/freezer are concave under the above cabinet panel. I took a side by side of the left and right and you can see the difference with the lining up under the above cabinet.

Regarding the check, it was not a final payment of any sort, and I can continue to get estimates of the cost to repair. The basically said their installer is not capable of fixing the problem. Also, not sure who or how this gets fixed at the point?

I understand how easy it is to get in the situation you are in, but their installer not being qualified to fix this problem doesn't make it your problem. It is just much bigger "their problem."

You should not be the one searching for a fix to this. Whoever, was paid to install the columns and the cabinets need to be working together to either solve the problem or find someone who can solve the problem.

I strongly suspect the only way to get this fixed is by throwing even more money at it. People tend to charge extra for the trouble of making someone else's problem theirs. I strongly suspect that if the compensation is appropriate, you will find someone to fix this.

----

I, of course, don't know the exact wording and they may have said, get it fixed and bill us the rest (which would not be a settlement). However, that check looks a lot like a settlement to me. Settlements are sort of a sacred cow, regardless of how fair they are. If they say their installer can't fix it and give you money to go find someone who can without other caveats. That is a settlement. They can still be on the hook for other issues, but this particular issue is likely no longer their problem.

Now, just like the average consumer doesn't realize that accepting a discount, partial refund, etc. constitutes a settlement, your designer may not either. So going back and saying, they need to fix the issue is still likely your best bet. Also, you have the power of reviews and such to force them to take back ownership of the problem, so I would still try that.

@bry911: "I STRONGLY suspect the issue is with the refrigerator installation and not the cabinets."

Agreed. The refrigerator and freezer are not attached together correctly. I asked the OP to put a level or straightedge across the entire width of the refrigerator+freezer panels. A gap in the center (i.e., near where the panels meet) would have indicated that the refrigerator and freezer were attached together ever-so-slightly facing one another.*

@bry911: "You can clearly see the right side is not in line with the cabinets and so if the door is true...the hinges just need to be adjusted."

Yup. Adjust the right-hand hinge to move the panel slightly inward (toward the cabinet).

*Fixing this would be a big job requiring pulling the appliances from the opening, separating them, reattaching them, and pushing them back into the opening. I'd be tempted to live with it if the adjustment to the upper cabinet panel made everything look acceptable.

@https://www.houzz.com/user/bry911 Ty- We let the designer know that we are using that check to pay for the estimates to figure out what is wrong since they have refused. Any remaining funds of that check will be refunded to her once we have a definitive answer and estimate of the problem, then they can let us know how they will be correcting. Their contract voids warranty and responsibility once someone else touches their work/product.

Thankfully we have legal access in our family so have been guided.

I would return not one THIN dime