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Old Rose Friends?

2 years ago
last modified: 2 years ago

I thought this might be interesting. What is your oldest favorite rose? How long have you had it? Was it an immediate liking or did it just sort of "grow on you"? (Sorry, I can't help myself.) Where did you get it? Feel free to share photos.

Comments (21)

  • 2 years ago

    Basye's Legacy. I propagated it from the Huntington Library Study Plot in about 1990 while a volunteer there doing rose propagation. Dr. Basye sent two roses there and wrote of them in the ARS annuals stating cuttings would be made available for those who asked. No one ever asked. He identified the rose as his 77-361. I wanted to use it for breeding, which I did, raising my Dottie Louise and Lynnie from it as well as further hybrids from it. I've planted it in several locations and then repotted it and taken it with me. The second is R. Fedtschenkoana. It's story is a bit longer and documented here on Help Me Find-Roses in my March 9, 2006 comment on its rose page. https://helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=2.5311.1&tab=32&qn=1&qc=0 I've raised a number of hybrids from Fedtschenkoana over the years, also. I have grown both roses continually from those two starts.

    Karen Service thanked roseseek
  • 2 years ago

    Le Vesuve. We inherited it when we moved into our house. From old photos, we think it was planted in the 1930s (or earlier - possibly prior to WWI) by my DH's grandparents. I knew nothing whatever about roses when we moved in here, and it took me over 10 years (20+ years ago) to figure out who it was. Cass Bernstien wandered by one day and took a photo of it and figured it out (it even took her a while). You may have seen this pic before, but in case some of you have not, here is her original pic, along with a close up pic from one of the clones of that old bush which are still growing in my garden:





    Jackie





    Karen Service thanked jacqueline9CA
  • 2 years ago

    Here is my second favorite, Anna Olivier, which was also growing in our garden when we moved in (in the middle of a huge ancient garden bush of some kind - it had gotten large and tall enough to be blooming out of the top of the other bush. It took way longer to ID this one, and it was finally IDd by the tea rose ladies from Australia when I took it as a mystery to the Celebration of Roses. I especially love how it makes blooms of different colors depending on the weather, or its mood:


    Jackie










    Karen Service thanked jacqueline9CA
  • 2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    My rose life has had several phases and locations, which have mostly been discrete, in that the favorite roses grown at different times and places often haven't overlapped. As a child in N. California, in the 1960s, my favorite rose was 'Blaze', which was an anomaly among my mother's collection otherwise dominated by typical, mid-century hybrid teas. It grew along a 6-foot fence and was always in full bloom on my birthday, though it didn't repeat much later in the season. It represented the quintessential rose to me then, in a way that the gawkier, if showier, mid-century HTs didn't.

    When living in western Massachusetts in the 1980s (Zone 5a), I was fond of two roses in particular, 'Therese Bugnet', because it was so hardy and reliable and nicely foliated and scented, and 'Louise Odier', which was barely hardy there and got blackspot (lots of it around in that climate), but had the most elegant blooms of any rose I grew there. I don't remember exactly where I got them, though I usually ordered from Wayside Gardens then, because local availability was limited and they offered a fair number of old roses at that time (if people think RVR mislabels roses a lot, they didn't experience Wayside Gardens back then...)

    Back in California and having this garden since 2002, among the first roses I planted was 'Golden Wings'. There was an inexpensive plant of it from a local grower available and I thought, having a single flower and being a good-sized, not-so-refined shrub, that it would be a good transition from the cultivated, irrigated part of the garden to the oak-dominated, native part of the garden. What started out as sort of a utilitarian relationship has grown into a love affair. It is tough and beautiful at the same time: the delicate shade of yellow and the size and red filaments of the flowers are very pleasing, the huge orange hips stay all winter (when the squirrels don't eat them) and are a visual treat, plus it has soapy-smooth, mottled-brown wood unlike any other rose in the yard that is pleasing to touch and also a treat to see in winter.

    Karen Service thanked catspa_zone9sunset14
  • 2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    I have two (well, maybe three). The first would have to be an unknown gallica I inherited from my grandmother, that has been in my mother's or my garden all my life. It was one of three that came to me from Grandma's garden, the others being Glenn Dale and City of York. I lost CoY to RRD many years ago. That's another story entirely. But the gallica always blooms the week of Mother's Day, and it has sooo many childhood associations for me. When I was young (eons ago), many churches had a tradition of wearing a rose on Mother's Day, a red one if your mother was still here, a white rose in her honor if she had passed. It was this unidentified rose that all five of us kids wore to church.

    It's not a pretty bush, as it is all gangly upright sticks in a thicket. It cavorts about, and I have to keep the runners under control. The flowers start a dark mauve with a reddish center, and fade to an ugly grey, but it has the most glorious scent reminiscent of Comte de Chambord/Madame Boll. It's still the rose that says "Spring" to me. I hope to always have it. It will probably remain unidentified. I lost my best chance by procrastinating. Suzy Verrier had expressed interest in trying to ID it, but I never got photos to her before she passed away. I might someday reach out to Anne Belovich

    Glenn Dale is a monster rambler, a wichuraiana hybrid. I have several plants of it, because If it touches the ground, it WILL root, lol. It remains totally spotless, needs no care whatsoever other than removing old canes, tolerates some shade, and has been known to bloom for six weeks in a cool Spring. The buds start out butter yellow, and quickly fade to creamy white with a boss of yellow stamens. There are few of my roses that bloom as prolifically as Glenn Dale for as little effort on my part. Alas, it's a once bloomer.

    As a runner up, I'll have to add Charles de Mills. Yeah, I know, I know. I do NOT recommend growing this rose on its own roots unless, like me, you have virtually unlimited space to let him rambunctiously ramble. Because he WILL. My "bush" is a 20' diameter circle. But to me, it is THE perfect gallica bloom.

    Just remember...I contain his spread with a lawn mower.

    Karen Service thanked fig_insanity Z7b E TN
  • 2 years ago

    @fig_insanity Z7b E TN In Massachusetts, not being as savvy back then, I had just planted 'Charles de Mills' before finding out that we were moving back to California, so I never experienced his wandering ways, but the few blooms I saw were exquisite (and how far could he have gone, being out in the middle of the woods? I know, I know...). A 20' circle of 'Charles de Mills' must be quite a sight. I envy you your 'Glenn Dale' too -- no place here any more for another monster, alas.

    Karen Service thanked catspa_zone9sunset14
  • 2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    Catspa, it's ironic that you envy my Glenn Dale (although they're certainly worthy of envy, lol). I started, then deleted, a post about how I envy you your Golden Wings. I've tried it twice, and it grew backward both times until it just didn't come back. I love spin hybrids, but only a few will survive the sudden onset of high late Spring temperatures that I get here...just as the new canes start to emerge. If I don't think to shade the new canes as they pop up, they just fry. I probably need to try again, and place it in an eastern exposure. Fortunately my Prairie Peace seems to tolerate my conditions, since it is my all-time favorite spinosissima. But I love Golden Wings. I'll send positive thoughts to yours, and hope you'll post photos.

  • 2 years ago

    Anne Belovich died in November 2021 at 97, John, so she is out too.

    Karen Service thanked Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR
  • 2 years ago

    'A Suffusion of Yellow' aka R. hugonis



    It's been there for about 30 years now. It came from Montgomery Place when it belonged to Historic Hudson Valley. They had a quasi-official policy of sending their volunteers home with plant life. Usually it was spare annuals from their greenhouse, but tulips were a fall staple, and the occasional perennial was offered. That day, they had nothing obvious to give, and asked me what I wanted. I pointed at the hugonis suckers, and said 'I want THAT!'. They were confused because they thought I was talking about the mother plant, and not the suckers. Once they realized what I was talking about, it was 'sure, but are you certain you want them?' They had four of them planted as part of the design of a formal HT garden, and keeping them under control so they didn't eat the HTs alive was a constant chore. I had no intention of making that mistake.

    It took shocking long to establish. It was about 2 before I was sure it would make it through the next winter, then another 2 or 3 years before it bloomed. Then there was no stopping it. For many years, it was our first rose to bloom (now primula beats it by a couple of days) It is still a major bee magnet, and one of the few plants we can hear when they are blooming.


    Golden Wings grew backwards for us also. The first one was a terrible rose, so we got another as a sanity check. It was equally bad, so we decided it was the rose. Between the blackspot and the winterkill, it just isn't a rose for here.

    Karen Service thanked mad_gallica (z5 Eastern NY)
  • 2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    Oh gosh, Sheila. I think I had heard that, actually, probably on here, but it totally slipped my (failing) mind. I never had any correspondence with Anne, so the news just didn't sink in, I suppose. But it's one more loss that shows how much of the old rose knowledge is being lost, and makes it imperative for all of us to both learn and disseminate it.

    I was pinning my hopes on Christopher (AquaEyes) for a while. The boy has a mind like a steel trap, and he remembers EVERYthing. Not only that, but he's got a great analytical mind, and sees connections between roses that most miss. He was shaping up to be a cross between Paul B and Kim R, lol. But he's pretty much disappeared from the forum. Another loss. I need to email him and see if I can lure him back, lol. I think I shall do that right now...


    EDIT: Emailed Christopher, now we wait...

    Karen Service thanked fig_insanity Z7b E TN
  • 2 years ago

    For me, it's my 'Hansa', which is a piece of the original plant of it my Grandmother planted at our family cottage circa 1970.

    As for "true" OGRs, I would include my 'Desiree Parmentier', collected from a neighbor's garden in Toronto in 1995, and which I still have and take great pleasure in every June. One of the best Gallicanae type fragrances ever.

    Karen Service thanked User
  • 2 years ago

    "Grandmother's Hat' . . . beautiful, and carefree.


    Karen Service thanked jerijen
  • 2 years ago

    @fig_insanity Z7b E TN and @mad_gallica (z5 Eastern NY). Sorry to hear that 'Golden Wings' couldn't withstand your climates (but that R. hugonis sure is wonderful -- don't have it, though it's been "on the list" for some time now, I only have its hybrid, 'Dr. E.M.Mills'). Here, my plant of it is over twenty years old and gets minimal care at best. Some photos of mine:


    'Golden Wings' on the left, about 10 years after it was planted, with 'Rhodologue Jules Gravereaux' on the right:



    At about twenty years old, a morning at the end of April:



    In the evening of that same day:



    Photo of a hip, taken today -- diameter is a bit more than 1 1/4 " -- huge and showy:



  • 2 years ago

    Thanks everyone, for contributing to an interesting discussion.

    Roseseek, of all of the roses that you've seen, handled and grown over the years, I wondered which one you'd choose. I didn't recall ever even hearing of Basye's Legacy before. I'm glad you brought it to our attention. I confess it looks like a very humble rose to me, but I don't breed roses. The fact that it is so healthy is worth recognition and if it can pass on its special traits, you'd wonder why more people aren't using it in their breeding programs.

    Jackie, Le Vesuve is really a beautiful rose. Since so many of your roses predate your presence and even your existence and some of them are rare gems, it says something about Le Vesuve that you chose that one.

    Catspa, I remember growing up with Blaze. It seems like a lot of people in Ohio in the 60's grew it as a climber with varying degrees of success. Therese Bugnet has been around awhile as a great cold-winter rose. She seems to earn her spot by the many who are successful growing her but it seemed to me that you needed the right touch to be successful with Louise Odier. I don't think I ever remember seeing anyone growing Golden Wings. I wonder why? It surely is spectacular in full bloom.

    Fig, I remember the Mother's Day corsages, only we bought or made them for our mothers and grandmothers. Many churches gave them out to the mothers, too. Like you, it was always red for those with a living mother and white for those whose mother had passed on. We had to buy ours though, because we'd never have roses blooming by Mother's Day. Your rose choices make me think you have room for big roses. Glen Dale is a rose that I would grow if I had unlimited space. I'd grow Charles deMills if I was seeking revenge against my neighbors.

    Mad_gallica, I remember the photos of your R. hugonis. How could anyone forget them? I love big yellow roses and grow as many as I can (not enough). Unfortunately, I don't have enough room to grow them all nor will they all grow here anyway. I have to enjoy them vicariously through people here.

    Paul- Hansa is an interesting choice and so is Desiree Parmentier. I always thought of Hansa as a cold-winter rose but that doesn't mean it can't be grown in milder climes. Did these roses travel along with you?

    Jerijen- I guessed that you'd choose Grandmother's Hat.


    Here are mine:

    Childhood friend-I don't know its name but it was a red climber that seemed to grow against every farmhouse porch or arbor where I grew up, A once-bloomer, it bloomed for about a month in June-July. The blooms were cerise, double and only about an inch or so diameter. They grew in bunches and completely covered the plant when it was in full bloom. They had no scent. My dad loved it. He called it 'Your Grandmother's Rose'. When it was in bloom he'd send me to go take a look at it. It never bothered him that it had no fragrance. He truly was a man who never stopped to smell the roses. What is so amazing is that these climbing roses survived bitter winters that regularly had temps below 0 sometimes killing them back to snow level or even all the way back to soil. Yet I can't remember a time when they didn't come back and bloom. I left Ohio in the mid 70's and when I returned in 1990, there had been a lot of changes. Many of the farmhouses were gone. All of the roses were gone, including the one on our farm.


    Old friend from Tennessee- 'Mechanicsville Beauty' - That would be the found rose from my husband's mail route. I think I told this story before, but it used to grow in front of a church that was vacant. The city tore it down and then bulldozed the lot. Somehow a little bit survived and it was trying to grow. My husband put it in a sandwich bag with a wet napkin wrapped around it and brought it home. It has somehow managed to survive all manner of calamities and we've had it over 20 years. Funny story, I might have figured out its identity. I was watching a British garden show and happened to see a rose I recognized. It looked just like our rose! The name of their rose was Mme. Caroline Testout so I looked it up on HMF. It looked like none of the roses from Australia. It looked like some of the roses from Europe. It reasonably resembled most roses in the USA except for Beth from California's. It looked exactly like hers. But I'd really need to see the whole plant, not just pictures of the flower. And that's assuming that she has the right rose. So who knows?



  • 2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    @Karen Service you're welcome. There have been many roses which have passed through my gardens I miss and would grow again in an instant, had I room, water and energy to deal with them, but these are the two longest surviving inhabitants of it. The Legacy plant IS the piece I rooted from the Study Plot plant, while Joan's Fedtschenkoana is a sucker, of a sucker of the ever expanding mountain the plant is determined to generate. A number of members of the Rose Hybridizers Association have played with Legacy over the years and Jim Sproul (Eyeconic Hulthemia series, among others) has a line of seedlings containing it. Robert Rippetoe, a rose lover/breeder friend from the desert (Miracle on the Hudson, Coral Miracle, Pink Miracle, etc.) also has it contained in a number of his offerings. I think it's fun several of them have it due to his using a mini seedling I shared with him I called "Soflegs". https://helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=2.38208.1 


    My quest to create a double Hugonis began with the discovery of Dr. E.M. Mills in old ARS annuals. Hugonis flore plena was one I wanted and could never find. All of the gardens of those who I know (knew) either lost it or no longer existed. No nurseries offered it, so I set about to create one. I think I've done fairly well. This is 1-72-1Hugonis flore plena. It's scented with the gorgeous Hugonis scent and, like its parent, "Kim' Golden Wonder", https://helpmefind.com/gardening/pl.php?n=81589 , it is nearly prickle-free. https://helpmefind.com/gardening/l.php?l=2.73967&tab=1 . It will join the many other long-term residents here.


    Dr. Mills is also a long-term resident. It's one I had known of since the mid 1980s but could never find. Here are two PDF scans from a 2013 Rose Hybridizers Association newsletter of my article, "Persistence Pays Off", which chronicles the search for Dr. Mills and the introduction of Anne Belovich. I hope they enlarge sufficiently to be enjoyed.


    There have been MANY roses which held special places in my heart, such as "Al's Red", explained here on the Help Me Find, Red Radiance page, in my Comment from March 6, 2006, Discussion id : 11-486, https://helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=2.5145&tab=32. I've always loved Careless Love, the striped sport of Red Radiance, and I've only recently obtained it again. As Careless Love is a sport of "Al's Red", it holds its place not only for its serendipity, but also to signify Frances and Al.





  • 2 years ago

    What a great recovery tale, Kim!

  • 2 years ago

    Thank you, Sheila! Those were the days!

  • 2 years ago

    Your Hugonis hybrids are wonderful, Kim! 'Dr. E.M. Mills' is very vigorous here, with canes over my head already not quite two years in the ground yet -- and a sucker or two.

  • 2 years ago

    Thank you, @catspa_zone9sunset14. I just accomplished having the two double, thornless ones rooted this year to start getting them spread around. Hopefully, next year there will be more propagation material available to spread them further. There are several others, all listed on HMF, but the pictured one and its sibling are the only thornless ones. I'm glad Dr. Mills is going great guns in your garden! I hope he is never lost from his home soil, again. That scent is marvelous!


  • 2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    Kim, I love your yellow rose! It has so many good things going for it. The fall foliage is almost prettier than the flowers. I realize that my taste doesn't reflect what wows the general rose-buying public but it seems like it might appeal to people looking for a "greener" landscape.

  • 2 years ago

    Thank you, Karen!