Abelia.x grandiflora - glossy abelia. This often overlooked shrub comes in a variety of sizes and growth habits...with the longest bloom cycle of any other shrub I can think of apart from the shrubby salvias.

Will have a proper think about this...but abelia was the first to come to mind.

Hypericum prolificum grows into a nice rounded shrub for me (and responds well to shearing back every year), blooms for most of the summer, and is always covered in bumblebees and other native pollinators. It's not too picky about soil type (other than disliking really wet), but you're definitely going to get the most "flower power" from it in full sun.

Another vote for abelia grandiflora. It has a VERY long bloom time and the swallowtails love it. Mine is on the east side of my house but also gets a little shade from a viburnum that's just to its south. It still gets lots of flowers. Mine dies back almost to the ground if we have a tough winter though. It might need some protection until established. I think what I have is just the species, not a named variety. I don't know if those would get as much pollinator action but some are hardier.

I am seconding Hypericum prolificum. I just popped outside and saw no bees on my oak leaf Hydrangea, a couple on my Haas Halo, but Hypericum was completely abuzz! Tried to take pics, but the bees were in a feeding frenzy and zipping around.

Hypericum and Abelia, two shrubs I never think of. I actually don't think I've seen them many times, if at all. I am zone 6b. I am wondering if the Abelia is hardy here? Hypericum sounds familiar, I'm going to have to look into that too. Thanks.

Not a shrub, but Virginia mountain mint is just beginning here, and flowers until frost. Butterfly bush (buddleia) is similar. Others will scream havoc, and let loose the dogs of criticism just for mentioning it (it is what must not be named), but mimosa has a very long bloom-time for a tree, and is a favorite of hummingbirds.

Ben, The mountain mint sounds great, but....I am very wary of anything that has rhizomes and forms colonies. Doesn't fit my situation, although the list of beneficials that are attracted to it, is impressive.

Butterfly Bush! I forgot I have one. It's a new one to me and it's one of the dwarfs, although I've had a couple of the large ones in the past and I miss them. Last year was my first year with it and I'm wondering how it will do this year. It hasn't started blooming yet, but I see a couple of flowers forming. Yes, that does have a long bloom period and the only two plants that I've had that I see consistent butterflies on, are this one and Asters later on. Butterfly bush is not on an invasive list for my area.

I'm unfamiliar with Mimosa tree, I'll take a look, thanks.

How about Ceanothus americanus (New Jersey tea)?

PM you like to research so you may discover Mimosas get some sort of blight and have weak wood.

Thank you LaLanoxa, I actually bought some small plants from a native nursery and it was a hot season that year and it was bad timing and they were just too small to survive that year. I just looked it up and it's bloom season is listed as May - June. I have a lot that blooms then already, I really need July, August and even September. And it also needs full sun and I'm all out of space for anything that needs full sun.

Thanks Marie for pointing out the issue with blight for Mimosas. But the suggestion of a tree did remind me of the suggestion Woody made on a few occassions of a Hepatacodium tree.

I see that Proven Winners started offering one in 2019. Here is their description...

"Temple of Bloom seven-son flower is a beautiful, easy to grow small tree which simply can't be matched for year-round beauty. In spring, the handsome leaves emerge, each sporting dramatically deep veins that make the plant stand out in the landscape. As the season progresses, the leaves grow larger and develop a long, twisting tip. Come August, when everything else is winding down, Temple of Bloom seven-son flower is just coming into its own, as it becomes covered in big clusters of fragrant white flowers that hummingbirds and other pollinators flock to. They last for weeks before gracefully falling to the ground to reveal vivid red, fan-like bracts, which make it look like the plant is blooming again in a completely different color. As winter comes and the leaves drop, the plant's elegant frame is revealed, along with amazing light tan peeling bark."

From the Arnold Arboretum site in Boston.....

Seven Son Flower

Oh and this hybrid from Proven Winners, tops out at 10ft? That's interesting.

It is more like a large shrub/small tree that I should have a place for. It is said to be a fast grower which also suits me and is shade tolerant which works too. I think I am going to consider that more seriously but I still want something more for July.

This is a little bit of the problem. When you look for bloomers in July, you see a lot of perennials and especially prairie plants, full sun plants.

Native plants - July bloomers

I do see that Clethra is supposed to bloom in July/Aug and I have that, but it's in too much shade and I need to move it, because it's stopped blooming for me. I might need to plant more of it too, because it just fits the bill to some extent. 'Ruby Spice' is supposed to have a longer bloom period and I don't have that one.

And here are a number of Abelias from Proven Winners

Abelia offerings from Proven Winners

Im exposed to thousands of species and there is no shrub that grows in shade and blooms non stop at this time of year in Eastern North America period. Perhaps there are a few that fit the bill that grow on other continents, but they would have no benefit to wildlife other than pollen and nectar. Most plants do grow larger over time via roots, rhyzomes and runners, so looking for plants that maintain their size is totally unrealistic. I question your love of gardening if you are so afraid and adamant, about performing necessary labor as reflected in your plant qualifications that are unrealistic and selfish. The best solution would be a mixture of shade perennials and annuals, but that goes against your unrealistic qualification list.

Jay, I think you have misunderstood my request so I went back and read my original post here….where I said I was looking for a shrub to follow the Itea in bloom sequence that would attract pollinators and I really need it in half sun or shade to bloom in July and August.

I was not asking for any plant that blooms non stop.

No benefit to wildlife ‘other than pollen and nectar’ ???

Gee and here I thought pollinators are attracted to pollen and nectar. It’s even in the name used to describe them. [g]

And you seriously think there is no difference in rate of growth between something that has plain old roots and those that have rhizomes and runners?

Looking for plants that maintain size is totally unrealistic? Sorry, I guess all my shrubs and perennials that manage to stay in the place allotted to them, must have not realized that. And if I remember right, you are growing a Trumpet Vine and feel that is a good garden worthy plant?

You ‘question’ my love of gardening…etc.etc.etc….’

I am now starting to find your posts amusing…lol. Seriously, I”m trying to imagine who it is exactly that you think you are. LoL

Good suggestions, below. Any good local nurseries where you can do a walk thru to see what is in bloom in your area in July August?

PM2, I came back to add that my Hypericum prolificum gets about half day sun with Eastern Exposure and dappled light under the shade of a dogwood.

It‘s native range includes MA which I believe is what Jay was driving at. As a native plant, it fills an ecological niche beyond pollen and nectar. Hypericum prolificum lacks nectar but is a great pollen plant (hence all the bees and Syrphid flies) AND it is a host plant for the caterpillars of Gray Hairstreak Butterflies.

I agree that you are not asking for the impossible. I grow mountain mint, and can attest to it’s expansionist tendencies!! Also, it is not blooming yet even in my neck of the woods. It is a bit later - overlapping with the Clethra. I am obviously in a warmer zone so my bloom times are different, but the sequencing is roughly the same.

Sun is likely to be your biggest limiting factor since many shade tolerant varieties are in a hurry to bloom in early spring before the trees leaf out. Even hydrangeas will have fewer blooms in deeper shade.

How about aesculus parviflora?

Butterfly bush is classic.

Dee, that’s a good idea to go through the NE Forum posts for July and August. I’ll try that.

And you are right, I just can’t add another hydrangea. [g] I have about 5 different varieties now and this week in the heat, they were suffering and wilting and I don’t think we’re going to be seeing less heat over the next 10 years. They are perfect for July and August for display for sure. And the paniculatas have impressed me in a lot of ways. But, I have enough…lol.

And I was thinking of multiple shrubs that bloom in July and August, not one shrub that bloomed for 2 months. Just to keep the pollinators from having to go elsewhere. I am re-doing a few beds in part shade/sun and I have multiple places for additions.

That Heptacodium has so many positives that fit my situation I think I am going to try it. I’ve gone back and forth about it too. Proven Winners has a hybrid and Weston Nurseries carries it too. Sales will be coming soon too and if I get one soon, maybe I’ll get some bloom this season or at least next. And really, I love the idea that it is a plant that Woody enjoyed in her garden so much.

Design Fan….what a great suggestion! That’s exactly what I am going to do. Head to a few nurseries over the next few weeks and see what is in bloom. I always forget to do that. I end up buying on sale at the end of the season, often not seeing the plant at it’s peak or even the color of the flower.

Markay, I understand exactly the significance of planting natives. I grow many of them. I just don’t subscribe to the approach that every plant in my garden has to be a native and I feel strongly about that. I’d rather not defend that position every time plant choice is discussed here on GW. And in general, I support the efforts of those gardeners who are passionate about growing as many natives as possible. What I don’t support is someone who imagines they are an advocate for natives yet with their attitudes toward other gardeners, gives native enthusiasts a bad reputation and I'm not referring to you. :-) It certainly seems counter-productive to me.

But thanks for the Hypericum suggestion.

Aesculus parviflora going on the list.

I have a small butterfly bush squeezed into my full sun bed which is only 15x20ft and has to fit every full sun plant on the property in it. [g] Only it’s 2nd year, I’m wondering how it will do this year. It’s just about to bloom.

Thanks!

Diggerdee, I was just being honest and hoping it would be appreciated. People offered excellent suggestions that were all shot down as unacceptable because of someone's unrealistic expectations. Ive never seen any photos of OP's plants or garden, but from what I have heard there seems to be fear and paralysis associated with deciding on anything, so I picture a dark, empty and dreary yard. Monarda fistulosa and Pycnanthemum virginica were both excellent suggestions, and though they are rhyzomatous, they don't spread quickly and only need dividing every 2 or 3 years,(10 minutes maximum) and my Monarda fistulosa never spreads enough to ever need dividing, and it may be the same case for other people, but they will never know if they are too fearful to ever stick a plant in the ground and find out. Butterfly bushes are bad on so many levels. They are invasive. Their strong scent draws pollinators to them instead of the flowers of the native plants they evolved with. They need to be deadheaded daily or else look ratty.

I would agree that heptacodium is an excellent choice, Prairie - I dithered to and fro but eventually decided not to as we don't have monarchs here...plus I have a long list of white flowered shrubs I am always keen to try - styrax, halesia, deutzias, raphiolepsis, cephalanthus, aronia, holodiscus...and of course, all the calcifuges I would love to grow such as zenobia, enkianthus, fothergilla, cornus...

The interest in pollinators is very welcome. Consider arbordave's lengthy threads, the interest is at an all time high and shows that posters are considering topics other than "pretty" in their posts.

I understand that honeybee hives were bought to America during the Colonial era for honey production. The sourwood tree is an important native smallish tree eagerly sought after by honeybees. If you don't have room for this small tree plant one or twenty as a memorial in the local cemetery. Georgia Plume is a close relative. It is AKA

Elliottia racemosa Here is mine in Maryland today. I grew mine from seed, IDK they are commercially available but if someone else knows more please post here.

This morning at ChicFil-A Russian Sage was in it's full glory. Same for lavender and both attractive to insects.

The concept of "larval host" must be stressed with each thread of this topic. Butterflies/moths require specific host plant for their larval food. Spicebush, sassafras, Pawpaw, magnolia. hackberry, violets, turtlehead, hickory, and the list goes on and on and on. Please consider larval host plants in future plantings for butterflies/moths.

sam, your comments are interesting. Honeybees can be choosy, and generally prefer their native/native-related flowers, which are many of our fruit trees that are often European (and hives are hired-out to pollinate them). But as you noted, there are exceptions like American sourwood. And perhaps honeybees have some Asian origins, as I've seen them go crazy in late summer on Japanese knotweed.

Many of the suggestions provided would work well. I'd also add that Potentilla fruticosa (Shrubby Cinquefoil) would admirably fit the bill as well. In my area, this shrub will bloom from summer until frost.

I'd also question the seemingly pervasive notion some posters maintain that native plants are somehow superior to any exotic species. In many cases they are not. They too have evolved to fit specific environmental conditions which may or may not be present in a cultivated garden distant from their native range. They can be weedy and disease prone. And non-native exotics DO attract plenty of pollinators and other wildlife!!

To term a plant "bad" simply because it does not agree with your style of gardening is uninformed and prejudicial. Butterfly bushes are not uniformly invasive and there are plenty of sterile cultivars on the market that pre-empt this issue entirely. Even sterile plants can attract pollinators!!

Thank you to everyone who has offered their time to recommend shrubs that might fit the parameters that I asked about. Very much appreciated.

On another day, when I had more time and if someone here had started their own thread on the topic of natives I might have entered a friendly discussion on the subject, but today, a number of people posting here have really gotten under my skin and though I certainly made the effort to keep the thread on point, I guess some of you had other ideas.

I’ve been posting here since 2004 and what we used to call this is a hijack. My thread has been hijacked. I was asking specific questions about MY garden and plant choices I need to make and now it has devolved into a discussion of natives.

Here’s what I want to ask….

Why is it acceptable to some of you…. …. The way Jay has attempted to bully me into choosing natives and insulted me in the process?

To me, the way Jay has responded on this thread and on an earlier thread when he did the same thing to me, is unacceptable forum behavior. And thankfully Dee at least recognized that and called attention to it, for all the good it did.

So, let’s back it up and address Jay’s behavior.

First he misread my post and misrepresented what I was asking. I didn’t ask for a shrub that blooms non stop in shade.

Then he explained to me that non native choices would not benefit wildlife, other than pollen and nectar. Why? What made Jay think that I know nothing about natives or host plants? Or whether I already grow host plants? Or what my experiences have been growing them? Or what my property is like, or my neighborhood, or what kind of wildlife I have near me or whether I am trying to attract more wildlife to my garden? Or what my abilities or level of garden experience or time available is or what my gardening goals are? So, that is all irrelevant?

Because this thread is about Jay and his garden goals and his natives agenda, not my garden?

Then he takes me to task for looking for a plant that doesn’t have rhizomes and attempts to teach me that ….’most plants do grow larger over time….’ LoL Really, Jay? I’m sure that is something that has escaped all of us. And imagine my amusement reading this, when I just got finished reading Jay’s post to another thread where he reports about his own garden…..

“Trumpet Vines are very agressive. Ive been trying to kill the vine in the picture for 10 years. I have it far enough away from my nice plants that it won't cause trouble.”

I think I read somewhere that people tried to warn him not to grow it but he ignored them.

But I should take advice about the advisability of an aggressive plant from Jay?

He goes on to characterize my questions about aggressiveness of a plant, as being ‘afraid and adamant’ and not being willing to “perform necessary labor”. That my qualifications for a plant to add to MY garden is “unrealistic and selfish.”

Well, maybe Jay should have been a little more afraid of the Trumpet Vine and I’m glad he is willing to put in the necessary labor to keep that in control for another 10 years.

What qualifies Jay to make such statements about me personally? Or about any other gardener?

And after Dee objected to this, you would think he would realize that he had crossed a line, but no, he comes back to add to that, by criticizing me for not accepting suggestions made to me. When you ask for ideas on the forums are you expected to choose one of the suggestions that someone else thinks are ‘excellent’ to THEM. Besides, I'm collecting ideas and have not accepted or rejected any of them at this point.

Jay - you go on to admit that you have never seen any photos of my garden and express your conclusion that I must have a very dark, empty and dreary yard.

I am surprised, that you did not consider reading any of my 14,000+ long winded posts complete with many photos of my gardens before passing judgment on me and my garden or even venturing an uninformed opinion.

Then Jay - you go on to suggest that Monarda and Pycnanthemum are both excellent suggestions - despite the fact they are not even SHRUBS which was the subject of the thread! AND they spread and “only” need dividing every 2 or 3 years!! One of my gardening goals is low maintenance and there are many plants that don't require dividing ever, and many that require it much less frequently than every 2-3years, which is more what I need. I also have Monarda growing in my garden, right this very minute and posted about it this week.

Butterfly bushes - Jay. Do you have any idea how many threads there have been on GW over the years about Butterfly bushes? Do you not know that they are not invasive every where? I have grown butterfly bushes for 8 years and never had a seedling in my yard. Yes, they are invasive in some areas, but they are not invasive here. And are you saying, that pollinators — are stupid? They don’t know they are supposed to use the native plants and they use the butterfly bushes instead? LOL And they are fragrant….but to you that is a drawback not a good quality.

The problem you have is not just your view of other gardeners, Jay, but your view of yourself and the expert you think you are at many many things. I’d like to pass along some advice to you. If you seriously care about natives and wildlife and the ecology, then keep posting photos of all the native plants and pollinators you have access to, and take a course on 'how to win friends and influence people' before entering into another discussion of natives with another gardener. You do the native movement more harm than good if my experience is any indicator.

The disruption of the natural world, the affects of human activity on the planet, the diminishing numbers of pollinators, the extinction of plants and animals….all of these are serious subjects, and this kind of conflict on gardening forums is not helpful. I would hope that anyone who wants to be an ambassador for pollinators and natives and wildlife, consider the realities each of us are facing in our personal environments and gardens and consider what ambassadors do and how they do it.

I think that closes this thread.

Aesculus parviflora is another good one (and pretty adaptable to various sun/shade conditions), but its bloom time is pretty limited compared to some of the other suggestions. Mine blooms for maybe 3 weeks in a good year? It also suckers pretty vigorously in the right conditions and can end up taking up a lot of "real estate", if that's a concern!

Hi Sah, thanks for adding that info to the thread. I do have a shrub already that suckers and it now takes up an entiire corner of the end of one side of the back. It's a gray dogwood. But, I was persuaded to give it a try since I had already tried 4 other plantings that failed to enjoy the deep shade on the north side of a 60 year old Silver Maple. I was happy I did, because this gray dogwood took off and thrived and blooms and fruits despite the shade. It does get a little sun there. And when it suckers, it hasn't been very difficult to pull up the extra to get it back to where I want it. I put mophead hydrangeas between it and the lawn and that prevented it to some degree from moving into the lawn, but it did move into the lawn where I didn't have the hydrangea. So far it has worked out to just mow over it. Still it is a great addition to the garden and the robins love the berries. And it's a native. Still, I don't have another corner to devote to a suckering shrub. [g]

Prairiemoon you are always knocking native plants but you do it in a subtle way. I find it quite ironic that you chose a name that is respected by thousands of native plant enthusiasts, and a very well respected nursery, because you are the complete opposite, and I don't respect your judgement about what's appropriate here, because Im a group expert and moderator at other native plant groups, and I deal with a lot of people daily. Go ahead and cry and get sympathy. Everything Ive said is the honest truth. Nobody called me out when I told another member that growing Philodendron in zone 6 was urealistic, but you have to be a crybaby and gather support against me instead of accepting the truth.

Jay, you are in the wrong here, please just stop.

Okay, I am not feeling good about the way this thread is ending up. Other people being dragged into it, and conflict in the forums really changes the free and easy friendly conversations that people usually are having.

For my part, I know I could have responded with a little less intensity. So….let’s see if we can’t all call a truce and let the whole thing go.

Jay, I don’t know you and you don’t know me. I will take your word for it that you are trying to be ‘honest’ about your perceptions and opinions, even if I consider them given in a very rude way. But you need to accept that I am also an honest person. A lot of people know me here and know that I usually speak my mind and if anything, I might say more than I should but I’m just saying what I think. Maybe that’s how you feel.

Here is your chance, to be reasonable and fair and I’ll try to do the same.

I honestly think you have made unfair conclusions about me. If you hold your cursor over my screen name, you can see I’ve made 14,000+ posts here, so it would have been easy for you to read a few of them and see what else you could find out about me before you formed your opinions.

You were quite unhappy with me that I expressed how much trouble I had with Virginia Creeper in another thread a week or so ago. That is the only native plant I remember specifically knocking. And I feel the same way today. I am justified considering the experience I’ve had with Virginia Creeper. I feel responsible to share that experience with people here on the forums when natives are being discussed, so others understand that you can get into trouble with that plant.

Other than that, I have been growing natives for over 15 years. Probably as far back as 2004. I live close enough to visit Garden in the Woods, the New England Wildflower Society and have bought many plants from them. Probably half of all the plants in my garden are natives. I have bought plants and seeds from the Prairiemoon Nursery. And it is just a coincidence that my screen name is the same, because I had that before I even knew there was a Prairiemoon Nursery.

I chose that screen name because I love prairies and moons. And I tried to install a mini prairie planting in my garden but I just didn’t have the room or the conditions for it and I was disappointed. But that was a long time ago. And I would have liked to establish a mini meadow, but again, not possible here.

But here is where your perception is a little off….I am not a native plant enthusiast, I am a gardener. An organic gardener trying to support and nurture the ecology of my garden and to some degree, natives are a part of that. That is the basis of my gardening philosophy that I believe strongly in and started doing back in 1980. Believe me, back in 1980 natives and organic gardening were not even on most people’s radar. So, no, I am not the complete opposite of a native plant enthusiast, but I differ with them in that I do not agree that gardeners should be limited to ONLY planting natives.

If you want to plant only natives, then that is your perogative. If that is what you believe strongly in and you have the resources and ability to do that, I have no problem with that whatsoever, but when someone of that belief attempts to twist my arm into doing the same thing, I draw the line. I don’t think I have the right to tell you not to grow only natives and you don’t have the right to tell me I should grow only natives.

As far as respecting my judgement about what’s appropriate here, you don’t have to, all you have to do is respect the Houzz Discussions Code of Conduct, that can be viewed here….

https://help.houzz.com/s/article/Houzz-Discussions-Code-of-Conduct?language=en_US&parent=0TO0y000000kD9wGAE

I hope that clears that up. We can all agree to disagree about natives only and just move on and let it go.

Prairiemoon is one of the KINDEST posters on this forum, always encouraging and positive. Her comments are sincere, her love of gardening is clear, and her interest in healthy gardening for the earth is evident in her history of posts. I just saw this thread, and I just wanted to make sure she knows how highly she is thought of. PM, you question was clear, your needs certainly not overly stringent at all. I ALWAYS enjoy seeing your posts on any forum and am grateful for your responses!

Um, I thought I heard mention of a truce.

It's interesting, just a few days ago I was thinking of the Houzz threads as a welcome relief from the polarized threads which you regularly see on Facebook. Every discussion seems to turn into a big native vs non-native debate, and then some. It's exhausting, I describe it as being bludgeoned. I say this as someone who grows many native species (I even suggested one in this thread!). I really hope this space can continue to be a better space than what you regularly see out there.

prairiemoon2, sometimes people get overly strident. It's inevitable on popular websites. Let it go, then the next day you'll wonder why you were even bothered by it. I know....

Jay,

I have known PM2 for years and she is a very dedicated gardener who adds a lot of time, value and insight to these forums. She is one of the most genuine people I have ever met.

Your reply to her was entirely out of line, especially when it was a simple question looking to the group for some suggestions.

PM2 (and Dee!) I cant say enought about how much I love my heptacodium. The honey bees and all insects swarm to it and it is such a great, late bloomer.

I have a couple varieties of hypericum, both in quite shady areas. In fact, I have some second or third year seedlings that are a great size that I can bring you to try! They might be kalmianum.

Sweet autumn clematis can be a bit scary with seeding around, but I havent found anything late-season that compares to it for bees and insects. Unfortunately it got the better of my allergies so all of them had to go. I still miss them greatly.

A perennial that looks like a shrub in my garden is chelone. I cut it back halfway during the season so it stays a bit shorter and fills quite a nice area as a big clump. Bees are crazy for it. I have lots if you want to try that too. Unless you already have it. I know you were asking about shrubs for shade. I have it in quite a bit of shade and I think it could pass as a shrub!

Blooming now, I have Heptacodium miconioides, Aesculus parviflora var. serotina, and Tetradium daniellii. My Clethra alnifolia masses are just starting as well. Perhaps planting a wider array of named selections will provide a marked different in bloom times for you.

The varietas of Bottlebrush Buckeye is just starting as the species is ending its bloom cycle. It is a much larger plant, with plumes 50-60 cm (18 - 24 inches) long. Abuzz is an understatement. If you had both, you would have a month and a half to two months bloom time - but space may not allow you that benefit. You need to co-opt neighboring landscapes, and thus borrow their scenery...

I have not been as enamored of Seven Sons, though it provides some interest in mid to late summer. I think it probably is a better performer in full sun; I liked it better at Beaver Creek Nursery in the rows with its brethren.

Korean Bee Tree brings a lot of insects to its flowers. It is a tree, so provide the space, but it has been a long time performer here at the Valley with absolutely no extra effort.

Like visiting plant purveyors to see what is in bloom, a visit to Arnold Arboretum (or visiting their website for a list) to see what is in bloom in your region is always a great idea.

Now, I'll be tapping my e-foot till you send pictures of advice taken...

I do want to continue the ‘Truce’ on Natives Only - And to keep it brief - to say to all those who have expressed appreciation for my participation on GW - it’s no less true how much I appreciate all of you. So, right back at you. 😀

But since this thread has continued along, I just want to thank people for all the further suggestions on Shrub choice.

Thyme, Hypericum was suggested earlier…by Sas67 and Markay and I have been interested. So that is going to the top of my list. Sounds like something that might be a good addition to my part sun areas. And Chelone is one I keep forgetting about. I think I have been more focused on adding spring and early summer plants since that seems to be what I have a lot of . [g]

And Ben…. I’ve heard numerous accounts of how many pollinators like Mountain Mint and I was thinking maybe I can grow that in a pot for the summer, but I wonder how feasible it would be to overwinter it in the house? Or if they sell it in a small enough pot, I could use it just like any other annual.

Sam, I have Perovskia and Lavender does not like my clay soil.. I have Spicebush and violets and Milkweed, I grow parsley and dill and lots of other herbs. Golden Thyme I have a lot of around edges of beds and right now that is in bloom and attracts a lot of bees. I keep thinking about adding a Magnolia, I’m fond of the yellow blooms but again more spring bloom, which I love but already have a lot of. Turtlehead is Chelone, right? Thanks for those ideas.

ViburnumValley - I have two varieties of Clethra ‘Hummingbird’ and ‘Sherry Sue’ - Hummingbird is starting right now, but mine has only a handful of blooms. I think the shade has increased and I need to move it into more sun. And Sherry Sue blooms late in September, which is great, and especially bumble bees seem to love it. But it died back to the ground a couple of springs ago, so I’m questioning it’s hardiness here. It has come back but is making a slow come back.

That’s too bad about ‘Seven Sons’ - I have no possibility of providing full sun and I hate to add a plant that does not prosper because I’m not giving it what it needs. I’ve tried that lots of times. [g]

And space is not something I have a lot of on 1/4 acre lot. Especially with 3 mature trees already in the yard and many more around the yard. I might have room for one smaller, narrow tree that doesn’t have a wide canopy and I did want something that flowers and maybe fruits, but the most sun I can offer for a location for one tree, is 4-5 hrs of sun. So maybe I need to change my plans and try for large shrubs. I’m also trying to create a screen along one lot line. I’ve been considering adding some viburnums for that reason too but don’t they all bloom in the spring?

Arnold Arboretum is a great idea. Great to visit in every season. And it’s about 40m from me.

And I will be tapping my real foot, waiting for everything to fall into place to get my projects started. lol 😀

Hi, ive been with you in spirit, Ann. i have a good patch of mountain mint. if you want to try it now or as an annual (i dont understand what you meant but never mind.) i can keep you supplied. it is not nearly as aggressive as culinary mint which can fill a bed in two years.

its a pretty plant. i could bring some to Susans.

i have not been to the arboretum in decades. If you want company let me know.

are you going to Thyme to Digs OH? if you have any mums that are big enough to take a piece off I'm replenishing my collection which were eaten by rabbits.

marie

"... I hate to add a plant that does not prosper because I’m not giving it what it needs. I’ve tried that lots of times....

LOL ain't that the truth?? I think it springs from gardeners being not only experimenters, but living embodyments of the old saying "hope springs eternal" lol!

:)

Dee

Thank you Marie, all very generous offers. I did see the announcement of Thyme’s Garden Open House and I’m hoping I will be able to go. And no problem about the Mums, do they root from cuttings easily? I’ll take a few tomorrow and try starting them and see how long it takes.

The rabbits ate my Mums and everything else last year and even though there are just as many rabbits around this year, they haven’t eaten the same plants. The Mums for the most part seem to have escaped. [g]

I haven’t been to the Arboretum in a long time either. The only thing that discourages me is how many hills there are….lol. I love the mature trees they have! I’ll let you know if I am going.

Dee, Well, we do share the issue of a lot of shade and not enough sun, so I know you understand! [g]

I wish I could walk the Arnold with you all. Many fond memories of my fall visits there...in the footsteps of giants.

Doesn't hurt that Fred inspired it...

Viburnum Valley, If you have been to the Arnold, then you remember the steep hills that are a good part of the walk. Those are gorgeous photos! Reminds me of when I was there in the fall. What is more beautiful than a mature tree that has had all the room it needed to grow to it’s full potential?

It’s also a little magical in the winter, right after a snow.

I see a viburnum, of course. [g]

What is that 7th photo? The bark is so unusual.

Yes, it is special that Arnold is part of the Emerald Necklace in Boston and that Frederick Law Olmsted codesigned all of that as well as Central Park in NY and a lot of other parks throughout the country.

Since I’ve lived in MA my whole life, I did take a minute to refresh my memory on Olmsted and I find it coincidental that the underlying topic of natives here, end talking about Olmsted who was an early leader of the Conservation Movement all the way back in the 1880s. Huh.

Thanks for posting these photos…VValley.

Growing up i lived in a planned community in Baltimore designed by the Omstead firm. (Planned in the early 1900s. )i understand they moved mountainains of soil and created hills and curved roads and adjacent greenspaces. All 25 minutes from downtown Baltimore.

PM, there also Mt. Auburn Cemetery, full of notables (unfortunately all deceased) and notable trees and vistas. Much more walkable than the Arboretum. I believe the large scale of the Arboretum’s entrance was designed to accomodate carriages which discharged their passengers at the carriage house.

That's what is so contradictory. While Olmsted was part of the movement to conserve natural areas, like Niagra Falls, yet his principals of landscaping could be very disruptive to a natural area. He wanted to create a vision he had and would use the land as a canvas. Which if you think about it, is so often what humans do. He had some of it right, had the right idea, but didn't know enough or understand enough to quite end up getting the best outcome. Not that his work is not beautiful, but his idea of conserving was contradictory. He couldn't see where he had it wrong. And we're no different today, we always think we have it all figured out and it's not until years later that we see we didn't. And then too often, we've still got it wrong, just in a different way....lol.

I see the Olmsted Brothers did Carroll Park and Sudbrook Park in Baltimore. He did a lot of academic campuses He did Cherokee Park in Louisville Kentucky and Ashland Park, a residential neighborhood and the Henry Clay Estate in Lexington Kentucky and the Kentucky State Capitol. Interesting he did Olmsted Subdivision Historic District in Swampscott MA and the Herman Dudley Murphy House in Lexington MA, which I've never heard of. And the grounds of the Capital Building in D.C. I am surprised at the number of projects he and his family were involved with.

List of Olmsted's Works

You're right Marie, Mt Auburn Cemetery is much more walkable and they have a lot of mature trees and beautiful plantings. I think I was there once and didn't have time to see much, so I am going to put that on the list. We just walked around the Public Gardens last weekend and that is very level walking but not quite as exciting. We're always looking for good walking areas.

Edit:

BUT - On further thought, still, he used a lot of gorgeous plant material and preserved that and gave it the environment to reach it's full potential. It's a PLEASURE to visit the spaces that he designed and be able to see these magnificent trees the way they were meant to grow. In my day to day comings and goings, I don't very often get that opportunity. So in that way, he has been a conservationist!