Jennifer Hogan - Are you a P.E.?

@ richfield95 - As a data scientist I hate acronyms. P.E? Prof Engineer??? A few extra keystrokes can add so much clarity and greatly reduce the risk of inaccurate assumptions leading to wrong answers.

Doesn't matter - my comments are based on the personal and professional experience of an old lady with a huge family who has experienced many first time home buyers making plans without enough information to get it right and not waste valuable time or money or get themselves in trouble when they don't plan for all the costs.

@eam44 I read through the guides and edited my post to have the floor plan on graph paper and added the measurements I could. Thank you for your suggestions

@jennifer hogan Thank for all your comments and suggestions. As far as the load bearing wall, the home inspector made that comment but it hasn't been verified.

They have lived in the house 4 months and it sounds like the majority of the people commenting suggest 6 months which seems wise. The reason they were want to get ideas for a kitchen remodel now is that a generous grandparent has offered to pay for one of their house remodel projects and asked them to create a list. They know it may be in stages but wanted an overall plan to start.

My daughter (who asked me to post this and is reading all the comments) loves to cook and has been frustrated by the kitchen/dining room design. There are so many built in cabinets (but the ones in the kitchen are very worn and the top shelves are too short to be functional) between the kitchen and dining room but most of the ones in the dining room aren't being used.

" My daughter (who asked me to post this and is reading all the comments) loves to cook and has been frustrated by the kitchen/dining room design. "

OK......What does she find frustrating? Is it inconvenient storage, or is she finding it difficult or inefficient to prepare the food she loves to cook? Have a specific goal, rather than just a "larger kitchen", because increasing the size might not give her what she wants. Does she want more room for small appliances that she uses? More storage for place settings, because they have frequent parties? More food/pantry storage? More counter room for rolling out baking projects? Or does she just feel claustrophobic there because she is used to a different design?

What lucky kids!

Because they are young, with little experience, I would strongly suggest getting a good kitchen designer to assist.

@brooksdeb2 The information we need is shown below in red. Next time you are in the space, could you provide that info? From the top left:

• Distance from wall to window
• Distance between windows
• Distance from sink window to wall

These numbers plus the width of the windows (Thans for adding that) should add up to overall width of the space, that I’m assuming to be 22’ (11’9” + 10’3”), or 264”

• Distance between the range and wall opening
• Size (width) of the wall opening
• Width of the wall from opening to the living room wall
• Width of opening from living room to kitchen
• Width of remaining wall

If you have a 500K+ budget to reinvent an old house as a 90’s McMansion, start gutting and hire professional help. Because a home that old will need all rewiring, plumbing, and the other bones, BEFORE you can do anything cosmetic.

Otherwise, move in and live in it, like everyone does with their first house. A first house is not ever a dream house. HGTV is not a documentary. It is fake from top to bottom. But especially budgets.

Since you’ve updated that they have in fact been living there and also have a donor paying the cost much of the commentary should shift.

Did they do an inspection before moving in? What repairs and/or upgrades are needed? Things like windows, wiring, plumbing etc are pretty but offer improvements to how the home lives.

If the upper cabinet shelves are adjustable, put short items on the bottom and middle shelves and move the shelves as low as possible. Drill new holes if necessary.

@westCoast Hopeful, fortunately they had a home inspection and any of the items you mentioned that were needing repair were repaired before they closed on the house. Roof, windows, HVAC, water heater all less than 7 years old.

If the walls are grey, as they appear to be on my device, changing the wall color will immediately make everything look 1000+ times better.

With all the various wood in the house - the paint color appears to be clashing - and crashing - everything. If they happen to like grey walls - that is fine. Except, that colorway does not work in this house and the grey fad is long over; so they don’t need to hang on to grey walls. If they want grey - a color like BM Edgecom grey would be better. Best would be a warm white/cream or classic antique white.

What color is on the walls now?

@Toronto Veterinarian, those are great questions and a good way to identify what the final design should be. She said would like more counter space for small appliances and food prep, a larger pantry for food storage and better traffic flow between kitchen and dining for entertaining and for 2 or more people helping in the kitchen.

Check, check, and check! We should be able to help with all three.

Are they open to hiring a designer? They need help for sure

They need professional architectural help for the full and large remodel list, and a good kitchen designer for the kitchen.

But first they need to assess the age and size of the electrical panel, whether it's even grounded, and if there is knob and tube wiring, or old shellac and cotton cord covered copper. That will rule out doing a new kitchen until that is all taken care of. Modern kitchen need multiple dedicated circuits, and even changing out the lighting to LED won't fix a 60 amp fuse panel. Or the fire hazard of knob and tube behind a wall that someone decided to insulate and covered it over.

Second is the plumbing type and age. Galvanized plumbing, has to go. It closes up over the years, and is a flood waiting to happen. Same with ancient cast iron that's rusted out. Only that is a sewage leak waiting to happen. And the water supply from the street to the house.

Then there's the foundation and roof, and window and door flashing. Those are the barriers that keep water out of the house, and keep the house upright and safe.

A home with that much vintage interior is not likely to have addressed any of those things. The truly important things will easily take 100-150K of the renovation budget, just to stand still in place with the house as it exists.

Do people not bother reading the comments before posting? OP has updated several points in comments and indicated many repairs and upgrades have been done.

A new roof and water heater isn't even the same thing as an updated 200 amp electrical service, with all traces of knob and tube gone. That's the difference between a visible 30K spent by the PO, and a 40K invisible project waiting to be done.

Does the wood flooring go underneath kitchen cabinets. If so I would change cabinets around first for a better layout. The dining cabinets are great for storage but eat up a lot of space. I’d remove. . I’d also remove the peninsula since it appears there is just a few feet from the wall of cabinets by the fridge. Move the dw to the left of fridge and then place the fridge beside dw. Use one of the cabinets from dining room to put in its place. Build a fridge cabinet to house the fridge. Rearranging will cause you to have to redo countertops but that will help update a lot. If cost is an issue look at Formica as they have greatly improved.
I’d change out the lighting as it dates the kitchen a lot too. In the dining area you could use a bench for seating and push the table up close to wall.
Open up the wall between dining room and living room.

That is a big money want list for a first home. Reducing that woud make the things left be easier to accomplish.

Tell your kids to make darn sure they don't over-improve the house for the neighborhood, because they'll never get 90% of that money back if they do. OTOH, if they plan to live there for the nexet 30 years, they can go for broke . . . but that rarely happens. It's so easy to go improvement-crazy with that first house! If it's truly a first home, spruce it up ON A BUDGET and call it good. Best of luck to the newlyweds.

There are so many negative comments on this thread all under the guise of an older wiser person passing down advice/judgement to a new homeowner because they know best. There is nothing wrong with buying a home and wanting to renovate it. There is nothing wrong with spending money on a house to make it yours and living in it. Many people do in fact end up living in their first homes for a long time or they buy with the intent to move later bust still value having a nice space while there.

I've just agreed with a number of the comments above. My only question is why the OP isn't the homeowner herself. I think it would be useful if the person actually buying/living in the home makes her own concerns and questions known.

As for the bearing wall question, the only realistic way the wall between the kitchen and living room is NOT bearing is if the roof is supported by trusses. Which is actually quite possible given the simple rectangular floor plan.

As an aside, I certainly would NOT take the advice of a home inspector regarding the best layout for a home. If the homeowner really wants advice regarding her new home, she would be well advised to hire a competent architect to incorporate her wants and needs, her budget, the site, and local building regulations.

" There are so many negative comments on this thread all under the guise of an older wiser person passing down advice/judgement to a new homeowner because they know best. "

That's pretty standard on Houzz forums.

I think that’s painting with a pretty broad brush, and @Toronto Veterinarian you’ve been around long enough to know that:

1. most folks are trying to be helpful, they just can’t help answering the question they want to answer instead of the question that was asked.

2. it can be hard to assess the tone of a comment that is written, not spoken. People on this forum can be more knowledgeable about stone and wood than they are eloquent or able to read a room (or a thread).

3. people get lonely, they want to be part of a discussion that they have no expertise in, and the word newlyweds (adorable) gives them a way to add something.

I’m sure all of these comments are kindly meant if not gently worded, including WestCoast’s lament. You just have to sort through a little chaff to find the wheat. ☺️

Knob and tube wiring would not be found in this 50 year old house (1974). Even in the1950s it wasn't being used.

@brooksdeb2 Here are some thought experiments using the IKEA planner - just for fun.

I like the efficiency of a galley kitchen (Hate corner cabinets!)

If this were my home and the money was available I may move the doorway to the family room just a bit so that you have traffic clearance through the kitchen, and create a galley kitchen.

I saw the suggestion somewhere that instead of getting a counter depth refrigerator you can make your counters just a few inches deeper and get the same look using the more spacious and less expensive traditional depth fridge. (Upper cabinets pulled forward from the wall the same amount so that the upper shelves are more easily accessed). I put that into my drawing below.

I would flip the fridge to the other end so that when doors are open they’re not blocking family room access.

I am loving this thread.

Congratulations to the Bride and Groom. Very exciting to have a new kitchen. There are some great suggestions on here already. Wanted to add a few blogs to get ideas flowing for them. They can see the before and after. And how some tore walls down to create an open feel.

Harp and Olive Nashville Ranch Reno before and after

1960s Ranch before and after

Before and after Liz White kitchen

Evolution of style blog

Run to Radiance Flip finished

Houzz Lesson Learned Ranch Remodel

5 years ago but oh so helpful

@freedomplace1 the walls are all white.

@eam44 thankyou for those ideas and taking the time to make those layouts!

My pleasure. I don’t use the IKEA planner often and I’m glad I took screen shots because I must have forgotten to save the plan 😂

Is it a cool white ? It looks very grey on my device. As I now look closer at some of the pics, I can see areas that appear to be white.

The first thing I would do (aside from paint) is address the lighting throughout the place. That would make a huge impact... both in the style of the light fixtures as well as the quality of the lighting. It looks like those are fluorescent light boxes in the ceiling in the kitchen. And if so, they would be ripped out immediately. In the meantime, I would not even turn them on. I would seriously get some plug in lamps and put them on the counters until this lighting issue is addressed.

It looks like a highly functional kitchen layout as it is. A counter depth fridge would make it better. Wood is back. And this house has a lot of charm. Maybe fix the lighting, and then possibly the paint to something a bit warmer, and live in it for awhile. Try to understand the style and the possibilities of the existing. Bigger is not always better... it really isn’t...

The owner has indicated they don’t like cooking in the kitchen as is. They need to figure what that means. Is it lack of openness, lack of counter space, layout, what. There are many possibilities for change for sure. Working with someone to help make them will make sure they are done well.

NO, the owner has not indicated anything. The MOM of one of the owners is the one orchestrating the whole post, without any input from the actual homeowners. And the first rule of being a MIL is to not be "that" MIL. Let the kids find their way through the whole thing, IF that's what they want, and not what MIL wants. No one knows what the actual homeowners want, because they have not been involved.

From the OP.

The daughter knows the distraction provided by giving mom a job to do, so she will leave her and her husband alone. If she really wants to do a remodel, SHE will be the one involved in planning. And budgeting.

Judgemental much?

Also the renovation appears to be a gift. So there’s that. Maybe park your snark.

The "evil MIL" trope is sexist and boring, on the same level as "my wife is spending all my money".

I don't understand the assumption that daughters don't want their mother's input or advice or help.

My life experience tells me that when a girl is 15 or 16 and think they are grown and know everything mom is old and dumb and has no useful advice, but by the time that same girl turns 25 her mother has learned an enormous amount of information and is now the trusted source for advice and assistance.

I would assume that the daughter who has purchased her first home has gotten past "teenage brain" and recognizes that mom is someone who has more life experience, can provide valuable knowledge and insight and may have more time than the daughter to get things done.

Funny part is it’s not even about in-laws. Person posting is the mother

Daughter here- my mom and I are laughing reading all of these. Yes my mom and I have a good relationship haha. I am just busy and since my mom enjoys this forum I told her to post here while I look for ideas elsewhere. Thanks to everyone who gave advice/suggestions! There are some great ideas posted here. To give some more insight, I would be fine with leaving the house as is, and agree that it would be best waiting at least 1 year to make changes. However, I work full time as a project manager, and plan/research everything months in advance. Basically, I couldnt help but start dreaming about it now! My main concern was that while we have tons of cabinet space, the shelves are so close together on the inside that I cannot store any medium/large items. currently I am only able to really utilize 50% of the cabintery due to this issue. Also, the cabinets are close to the counter top to where I cannot use my standmixer or other appliances. the distance from the countertop to the bottom of the cabinets is 9.5 inches. I cook in the kitchen every day, and while it is by no means hindering me from cooking, it is making it slightly frustrating. I would just move the cabinets up and adjust the shelves inside, however, the shelves are fixed. I also would hate to gut the kitchen, as I want keep the home as close to its original beaury as I can. I already have a bone to pick with the realtor for painting over the original paint and wallpaper with this modern grey. Ultimately I just want to make the cabinetry more functional since it is already a smaller space! Maybe down the road I would also want to look at removing the penninsula because it makes it hard for my husband and I to be in the kitchen at the same time. I also am planning on removing the overhead frosted lighting

Daughter here- my mom and I are actually dying laughing reading all of these. Yes my mom and I have a good relationship haha. I am just busy and since my mom enjoys this forum I told her to post here while I look for ideas elsewhere. Thanks to everyone who gave advice/suggestions! There are some great ideas posted here. To give some more insight, I would be fine with leaving the house as is, and agree that it would be best waiting at least 1 year to make changes. However, I work full time as a project manager, and plan/research everything months in advance. Basically, I couldnt help but start dreaming about it now! My main concern was that while we have tons of cabinet space, the shelves are so close together on the inside that I cannot store any medium/large items. currently I am only able to really utilize 50% of the cabintery due to this issue. Also, the cabinets are close to the counter top to where I cannot use my standmixer or other appliances. the distance from the countertop to the bottom of the cabinets is 9.5 inches. I cook in the kitchen every day, and while it is by no means hindering me from cooking, it is making it slightly frustrating. I would just move the cabinets up and adjust the shelves inside, however, the shelves are fixed. I also would hate to gut the kitchen, as I want keep the home as close to its original beaury as I can. I already have a bone to pick with the realtor for painting over the original paint and wallpaper with this modern grey. Ultimately I just want to make the cabinetry more functional since it is already a smaller space! Maybe down the road I would also want to look at removing the penninsula because it makes it hard for my husband and I to be in the kitchen at the same time. I also am planning on removing the overhead frosted lighting

In the interim, it may be worthwhile to remove a few of the interior shelves that are too close together, to give you storage for taller or medium height items. A pain to do compared to adjustable shelves, but not impossible. https://www.hunker.com/12305916/how-to-remove-a-shelf-from-a-kitchen-cabinet

We have a kitchen with the sink, stove and refrigerator approximately where you have them, and we left this configuration when we renovated. We added an overhang on the outside of the peninsula. We added 2 chairs there and it is our favourite place to cook together. One person seated, but still with easy access to the refrigerator. The other person on the sink side of the peninsula. You could change out your laminate to a different laminate, and extend it to create a seating area. Not a big expense, to make your kitchen more liveable while you plan.

Your kitchen layout is the same as ours just a little smaller. If you remove the above cabinet lights you can put in 36” wall cabinets instead of 30“ and have a lot more vertical room with adjustable shelves. Putting a shallow pantry next to the doorway on the Refrigerator wall can keep you from overlapping the doorway. Another cabinet next to it and counter depth refrigerator in cabinet on the dining side.

If you remove dining room cabinets you will have enough room to put dishwasher to the left of sink and maybe a Super Susan in that corner with short drawer cabinet next to it as short peninsula. At least thats what I would do:)

So glad to know that your mom is not the devil incarnate who you were trying to pawn off to the internet to keep her out of your hair. :-)

Knowing more about how you live and what your future looks like is an important part of the design process if you will be living here for a long time.

When I got my last house I got rid of the dining table and used only island seating. It worked for my family. I have a table in my current home because I am older and my friends are older and high seating isn't ideal. Some people entertain a lot and need a big table for entertaining.

Although I did entertain at my last home it was in Southern California and I had plentiful outdoor, covered seating areas for the bigger parties or I could just place a folding banquet table and chairs in the middle of my family room. I didn't decorate on the once every couple of years incidents of needing indoor dining for 10.

My current dining room is not the recommended width. It is 9' wide. On a daily basis I only need to seat one or two people. The one or two times a year when I have more it is a bit tight for the people on the outside wall of the dining room. Once your seated you are not getting out until the people next to you get up. It is next to my kitchen and both rooms were designed to be 10' wide. 12' is better for dining. 12' would be better for my kitchen, but I only have 20' total, so I had to decide what the optimal split between the two was.

My last home was on a slab. That made moving electic and plumbing expensive. My current home has a generous crawl space under the kitchen making these changes affordable.

Your dishwasher placement would drive me insane. I need the dishwasher next to the sink and it cannot compete with the oven door - both should be able to be opened at the same time.

I also looked at refacing, painting, moving and replacing cabinets in the past. Their are a lot of options and you have to really understand your pain points and budget to make the best decision on what to change and what to maintain.

My sister devised a system that works beautifully for her big Kitchen Aid Mixer and other larger appliances. It isn't ideally situated to your kitchen/laundry setup, but it may be something to consider if you are altering the laundry. She built her kitchen next to the laundry/pantry. Her backsplash on a portion of the shared wall has doors that open and the countertop extends into the pantry. Her small appliances live in the pantry on that counterspace. When she needs the big, heavy, stand mixer you just slide it through the backsplash.

Keep a diary of what works and what doesn't work well in your home. It will help you remember and prioritize issues as you move forward toward designing your ideal space.

if you like the cabs and are not planning on a gut reno down the line i would remove the light box and raise the cabinets up. you should be able to remove some interior shelves as well to fit your needs or have them moved. if you raise cabs you will need a new backsplash so could put in some pretty tile.