" Are people silly fools for imagining that eliminating (for example) plastic drinking straws makes any meaninful contribution? "

Yes, 1000 times more. Feel good efforts like this and so many others people do in their homes thinking they're making a difference (and those people who hypocritically pick and choose for themselves which to trumpet and which to ignore) do little.

Efforts need to be done on the front end, not the back end, to make a difference. European countries have done significantly more than we have here to reduce environmental damage. The list of programs in place there is too long to mention but they're wide ranging and have been very significant. Carbon reduction targets for power production, restrictions on packaging, even all the way down to requiring parts in manufactured products (including cars) have a minimum content of recycled plastic and mandating the use of materials for car parts that can be recycled. And, at end of life, they have to be so treated.

Changes made at a national level make a difference. Composting banana peels may make people feel good, and it feeds local rodents, but accomplishes nothing significant.

I think important things we need to do to make a dent on the plastic pollution front is to develop is 100% biodegradable plastics and do more R&D on micro-organisms that break down the types of plastics we use now, but also put policies in place that put these two things in action (thinking achievable requirements here).

I would argue that while home composting may not do anything to help the planet in terms of big-picture, it does a great deal for building healthy soil that supports a healthy ecosystem (at a minimum, local to the homeowner's property). Healthier soil ecosystems support healthier plant growth, which in turn means less dependence on harmful chemical solutions to knock out disease and insect issues (either organic or non-organic -- some of the organics can do some serious damage to the ecosystem if used indiscriminately).

I also had someone ask me if I really believe that blacks and Mexican immigrants are the same as "us".

Uneffingbelievable. I mean, I believe you, but that question is beyond the pale.

“, and probably the least important is the question of just where the heck all that disaster debris goes.”

Hurricane Debris is still on the curb throughout the area. My small city has trucks (many outside contractors) working 7 days a week picking up. Almost daily the City announces that unloading the full trucks is what has slowed the cleanup process. There are few dumps that are not overflowing, with long lines which make the dumping process slow.

Local governments have to move quickly to pickup and relocate the piles. FEMA reimburses the cost if the cleanup is done within 90 days.

A couple statements about the quantity in one affected county. This was not the hardest hit county.

”At the meeting, Hillsborough Emergency Management updated commissioners on recovery, estimating the household and vegetative debris from Helene and Milton is more than they’d typically collect in 8 1/2 years. ” - County website

“. Department leaders estimate the total amount of debris caused by both hurricanes Helene and Milton to be approximately 1,000,000 cubic yards, or 10,000 football fields. Back in 2017, a total of 175,000 cubic yards was collected after Hurricane Irma.” - City of Tampa website

I wrote a long reply that Houzz ate. I wonder about the storm debris, too. So much of the wood/logs could be reclaimed but for the fact that it's mud contaminated and I don't think they can mill muddy trees. Even for firewood, the mud wreaks havoc on chainsaws and there is such a huge volume it would probably rot before being burned. So much of the rest is a jumble of household goods/plastics/cars that I can't imagine they could do anything but create huge landfills for it all. And there will never be full recovery of the bodies, so there is that to consider, too. So unbelievably sad.

I am in favor of every effort to recycle, even the smallest ones. Composting keeps tons of organic matter out of landfills and creates food for the soil to grow other plants. More composting and fewer chemicals would be a good thing.

I've written here before about a company that started in Seattle and is expanding nationwide called Ridwell. They recycle hard to recycle items, mostly plastics. They contract with companies like Trex that use the plastics to make other goods instead of going into landfills. If you're interested, check to see if they are in your area. I don't know but they might use the zip codes that are entered to search as a marketing tool to see where they should expand to next.

Ridwell

There are already huge issues here with the hurricane debris. I live in Henderson county and have seen severely damaged areas in Buncombe and parts of Yancy county but there is so much destruction most of us will never see and can't fathom the amount of material that needs to be dealt with. The counties are doing their best to begin picking up debris but we are already one month out from Helene and and they've barely made a dent. Material is piled at the curb (where there is still a curb) that includes rotting food, moldering and mold ridden household goods, construction and landscape debris... and the same debris piles in business/industrial areas with the addition of all manner of chemical products. The 'fluids' from just one destroyed vehicle includes gas, motor oil, brake fluid, transmission fluid, antifreeze and I'm not even sure what else - have made their way into our waterways, are mixed with the mud and debris but multiply that by the hundreds of vehicles destroyed. It's hard for me to wrap my head around.

Elmer, just STOP! What I choose to do and the choices I make and the reasons I do, is none of your business and I certainly am not going to justify anything to you. I, and no one else here cares what you think,

I agree that every little bit helps, except when some of the recycling efforts add to problem because they are burning more fuel and creating more pollution that is worse for our environment than what they are recycling.

Elmer I am not taking ANY direction from you about what I post here. Get over yourself.

Ahem,

I am on side with reduce where you can. We got where we are one piece of trash at a time.

I am avid about composting because I love compost. And you keep stuff out of dumps.

When humanity recreates itself after the Zombie Apocalypse they will start mining dumps. While all that aluminum, iron and copper will come in handy I dont think they are going to find unrotted carrots useful.

Calling people self righteous is not in the spirit of friendly exchange of ideas that a certain person espoused.

If there was not such a time crush and hazard, a lot of the ”stuff” might be salvageable. Metals, furniture, wood…. I bet the rats are having a field day.

We try to be mindful of what we buy and discard, but, again, individual consumers can only do so much. You cannot buy some items by the piece as in the old town hardware store. I just needed 4 ”D” batteries. They come in a sealed plastic blister.

I replaced some miniature LED string lights and the old ones do not get accepted by recycling. So there is the copper, plastic, lead (Pb) and glass tossed into the trash which will go to an ever-expanding landfill. There are so many consumables that are never going to get recycled and they are made to be expendable and short-lived. Just look into the shopping carts next time you're at a mall.

When there was the Evergreen/whatever Suez blockage or when I see acres or oceans of containers, I think ”Landfill.” Holy cow. And then there is the disaster of wars.

Humans — maybe a pretty bad design.

Does everything in your blue bin really get recycled? You would be surprised.
The plastic recycling rate in the U.S. is very low, but there are tricks to improving your own plastic accountability

Read in The Wall Street Journal:➡️ https://apple.news/AoC7UMqelThSmMTh1vn-xQg

" Are people silly fools for imagining that eliminating (for example) plastic drinking straws makes any meaninful contribution? "

No, and yes......It depends on what you think you're contributing to.

Yes, it helps contribute to the concept and realization that we use more plastics than we need and that there are acceptable alternatives. Yes, it gets people used to the idea of using fewer plastics. Yes, it helps reduce the risk to animals that can be injured by these dangerously shaped pieces of plastic (that won't be injured by a plastic cup, for instance). No, it doesn't make a meaningful contribution to the amount of waste plastics out there, so if that's your only goal, then don't bother. But that's not my only goal, so I'm OK with eliminating plastic straws.

There are different things that help move towards different goals.

The debris from deconstruction is a real problem, but there's not much that can be done about it - it's just one of the problems that hurricanes, land slides, floods, and other natural disasters leave in their wake. Even when some of the things look reusable (like wood or brick), their structural integrity is probably damaged, which limits the types of use those things are good for.

I don't understand why you all keep responding. The reactions are food.

"I don't understand why you all keep responding. The reactions are food."

I have no idea what this means!

The amount of storm debris is just mind boggling - so many areas were impacted.

Here's a pic of a neighbor on our street - every house has had a pile, tho some have been removed. These folks are reportedly preparing to add a second story, which is a requirement for new construction.

All the streets are lined with piles of household &/or vegetative debris. There are still many large downed trees that haven't been taken care of yet as well.

Some pics a friend took recently of the park next to Treasure Island Community Ctr, now being used to collect storm debris - just from one small city - and nowhere near done yet:

Yesterday, they had dozens of dump trucks and backhoes scooping up the piles in one neighborhood. We filled a dumpster in just one day at one house and still aren't finished. almost 4 feet of seawater will do that.

The trees and brush will most likely all be turned into mulch, according to our city website. I see so many large diameter oak tree trunks in those piles, it's sad.

There are strict rules about separating items into categories, or they say they won't pick them up.

How many posts on Houzz are about updating granite or flooring or cabinets or bathrooms that are perfectly functional, but not the most recent trend?

Carol, yikes...it's so heartbreaking to see so much of people's lives just wrecked and I imagine it's even harder to have to look at it every day, instead of just having it gone and trying to start again.

Carolb, your photos look like my area, Sarasota, Fl. Took a drive through Siesta Key and was shocked the size of debris we saw. Piles of furniture, mattresses, sheet-rock, rugs, etc. We passed the lot where the trucks were dumping and it looks like mountains.

We live further inland and most of the debris are oak trees, piles of oaks and fences.

Our area was hit hard and we are coming into snowbird season and may lose a lot of visitors. The hotels and rentals near the water were flooded and suffered severe damage.

Carol, that is depressingly astonishing. Are those people supposed to live on their new second floor and just let the storm surge have the first floor? Even if people tried to put their home on stilts, the weight and force of the surge pushing heavy debris would likely knock the house over.

I saw some views of Treasure Island on the news — lots of large boats tossed all over the place. There may be homes with 30 ft yachts in the kitchen. I would be so overwhelmed, I’d move to the mountains. I hope there are some places these homeowners can go to for emotional and recovery/financial support.

I hope you are doing okay and have hopeful plans.

I’m in Savannah. Our storm debris is picked up by a mix of city workers on their normal routes and FEMA. The branches all get ground up and mulched (you can see the mountains in the second photo) which is used in parks and given to residents.

" I would be so overwhelmed, I’d move to the mountains. " @petalique I know you didn't mean that literally, but Helene proved the mountains aren't safe either. The mountains here acted as funnels, increasing water velocity and destruction. All of us would like to believe we'll never see anything like this again in our lifetimes but...... Witnessing the increase in number and severity of storms and weather events of all kinds - tornados, hurricanes, polar vortex, blizzards, heat waves, and drought - in just the last decade, gives me little to no confidence in that belief. And if not in my lifetime, I am frightened for my kids and grands.

Yes^^^, we know some folks who moved from FL to Asheville, NC to escape hurricanes...

I mentioned upthread about all the tree debris in the floods in NC and Tennessee and how it likely couldn't be salvaged because of being contaminated by mud. I just saw a video of tree recovery at Lake Lure where there were pulling out one huge tree at a time and pressure washing it to remove the mud so it can be milled or cut for firewood. It will take forever to process them all, but it's a start to salvage some debris.

Salvaging logs

I don't see much in answer to the question here. WHERE does it end up?

I'd guess a lot goes into the ocean. If it's burried...where?

And we go on permitting the manufacture of plastic, which *never* decomposes. We permit building forests and viturally *in* oceans.

Olychick -- That's encouraging.

Mingled in the tree branches and driven into the bark are surely textiles, metals, plastics, biohazards of all kinds, paper, glass, asphalt, fiberglass…The mud is the least of their troubles.