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New construction (full-frame) window installation - big gaps?

last year
last modified: last year

Dear all, thanks again for reading this thread and trying to help. I really appreciate it.

Our house is an old 1930s house in San Francisco. Recently due to 15+ years of water leaking issue during the rain season (Nov - Mar) to ground floor hallway, and we cannot narrow down the culprit to window, stucco, or roof. We decided to replace windows first (the wood window frame is rotten), and see if that would fix the water leaking issue.


The window contractor suggested to go with "new construction" window installation method (aka "Full-frame window installation") so we went with their recommendation.


After they finished the job, we found that the new window is sticking out of the new stucco. See: https://photos.app.goo.gl/6BA5MVh69Yk4JVCNA and https://photos.app.goo.gl/uePKAmE4GVwsiria8 and https://photos.app.goo.gl/a4WWbNPmKhCKcg7b8


Also see this photo for reference: https://photos.app.goo.gl/faN8bF3bMm7iiwdH7
(The sloped area is a roof, and under the roof is our hallway, which has 15+ years of history of water leaking)

Note that we decided NOT to install wood window trim in advance, as these windows are facing our backyard, and we don't want to keep maintaining these wood trims by having to paint them every few years (otherwise the wood become rotted and can store water which become another source for water leaking).


We called the window installer up, and they said that for "new construction" window, it is supposed to be like that. (!!??)


Is he telling the truth or is he BS us? Note that under the window, the (old) stucco does not have weep screed. So if the water gets inside via the edges of the windows, even though the "new construction window" has the "fins" around the four edges, I believe the water will still go down and go into the stucco, which they will have not place to go out but to leak through the ceiling of the ground floor hallway, which I don't think that's right.

Couple of questions:

  1. Is it true that for "new construction window" installation, the edges usually would be left like that?
  2. I read some other places that the proper way to seal it, is to use "foam insulation" around the edges of the windows, then caulk it to be air tight. Is this correct?
  3. I think for all vinyl windows (retrofit or "new construction"), the edges should be air-tight and water-tight, and the only place that the water can go out, is thru the weep holes. Am I correct?

Thanks so much for your help!

Comments (11)

  • PRO
    last year

    Typically new construction has nail fins.

    They would of had to cut the stucco back to put them in with a fin.

    If was new construction The Stucco would have applied afterword not leaving the gaps you have.

    In new construction the nail fin would have been set in a wet sealant, then window flashing tape tied into the sheathing and weather barrier with proper pan flashing and drip cap. This step would be where the water protection comes. Afterwords the caulk can be optional. The foam would be merely to make it air tight and R-value

    .

    W C thanked toddinmn
  • last year

    @toddinmn Yes, they did cut the stucco back so that they can put them in with a fin, and they did the flashing. It was a new construction. The only thing is that the window contractor outsourced the stucco part to another stucco contractor, and that stucco guy somehow left the gaps that I have now (I guess he didn't do a good job). My question now is, should I just caulk around the gaps around the window to make sure that it's water-tight and air-tight, and in case somehow the water still get in, the only place that the water will come out is the two "weep holes?" Thoughts? Thanks again!

  • last year
    last modified: last year



    "Is it true that for "new construction window" installation, the edges usually would be left like that?"


    No. Your windows are not properly installed. Period.


    "I think for all vinyl windows (retrofit or "new construction"), the edges should be air-tight and water-tight, and the only place that the water can go out, is thru the weep holes."


    Correct and you will have water issues again. The windows do not look properly flashed to me and caulking will not make up for that.

    W C thanked millworkman
  • PRO
    last year

    Please post your photos here in the comments not as links

    W C thanked HALLETT & Co.
  • PRO
    last year

    Lot going on here. What does the contract specify? Stucco is a bit like opening up Pandora's box. No way to really guarantee the window won't leak unless you have some sort of rainscreening and through wall flashing.

    W C thanked Windows on Washington Ltd
  • last year

    @toddinmn The window is Milgard 8240T Tuscany Series V400 VNL VS.


    Which photo you feel that they installed the window that was meant to have siding go behind the flange?


    Here are some photos shows the flashing detail before the stucco was patched in:





    For sure they didn't install the top drip cap flashing (metal) piece, but maybe that's optional? See: https://www.phoenixmetalsltd.com/how-to-install-drip-cap-flashing-for-windows


    Another separate (but related) question. According to the window installer, he said that our old house wrap (or waterproofing building paper) is pretty old (91 years old to be exact, those brown-colored old paper), so he suggest that next year maybe we should consider re-stucco the entire wall. Any thoughts about this? Thanks again!

  • last year

    BTW, my favorite "how to properly install a window" youtube video is "This Old House" Tommy's demo: https://youtu.be/EOzkimq9ipo?si=CPpkKsM79MPEHzMF. 

  • PRO
    last year

    The 8240T has a 1 3/8 set back from the nail fin, meaning the window will protrude to the exterior that amount.

    It also has an integrated 3/4” J channel which is often done with vinyl siding so you dont have to add a j -channel.


    The window that seems that would have been best in this application is the 8230T. This window has a 1” set back and a stucco key. This would have allowed for a drip cap as well.

  • last year

    " For sure they didn't install the top drip cap flashing (metal) piece, but maybe that's optional? "


    No it is not "optional". Drip cap or some sort of head flashing is window install 101 and absolutely required.

  • PRO
    last year

    The metal part is optional and not typically done with integrated J-channel. The head flashing is the most critical, then the bottom then sides. A window with intergrated J was not the right choice IMO. The finished result is flawed. Hard to say how well done the flashing was installed.

    These are merely observations from pics and not being there.