Many newer Kordes have excellent disease resistance. Bliss , Dark Desire, Wedding Bells, Beverly. GRF has some I think? Kordes Climbers such as Quick Silver & Lavendar Lassie. Just mentioningva few. I have a long list of best disease resistant roses. GRF had Miyabi-she was great in disease resistance. Georgia Peach was great! .

I’d like to see how Sweet Mademoiselle does with disease resistance? She’s a beauty!

Moses, I'm impressed that of the three they mentioned, that you grow two of them and know that they are BS resistant for you. That's a good test for them for this question, and shows that they aren't just tossing out nonsense (in this regard)!

Susan, so right! Instills credibility from the start. Now, I expect the truth, a nice feeling! I got the name of GRF's respondent. So I will address this truth teller in future emails.

Moses

Kitty,

I've tried all but one of your Kordes roses mentioned above. May I submit a short evaluation of each one I grow/grew?

Bliss...great rose, cast iron disease free, blooms slow to open (good trait), somewhat flat in profile 😞, vigorous and resilient.

Wedding Bells - a slow grower here, all the bushes I put in the same...wimpy...taken out...glad for it.

Beverly - good grower, some black spot, flower petals had weak substance, lots of blooms, though. All three, gone...no regrets.

Quicksilver - tremendously lovely rose...abundant blooms...flowers' petals very thick and durable, long lasting blooms....canes very inflexible and snap far too quickly if forced....not the best trait for a climber.... am training it now as a tall shrub....will see if I am successful.

Dark Desire - intriguing color....poor grower here...good bye Dark Desire.

Moses

Sweet Mademoiselle and Princess Charlene de Monaco are not black spot free in my area.

Moses, I have high BS pressure here too. Bliss is super healthy here too. And PCdM, new this year, is also BS free so far. It hasn't flowered much yet.

My other roses that are BS free or almost are all mainly new this year, with the exception of Dee-Lish, but it had a good Spring flush and then very few blooms. It may need to be watered more, as people on HMF say it blooms well for them. My first year roses that I would recommend for BS resistance are

South Africa - very healthy, a little slow, I love love love the golden blooms but not many so far

Raspberry Cupcake - very healthy, very vigorous, well shaped bush, the blooms are nice but I'm not crazy about them

Sespe Sunrise - a tiny bit of BS, vigorous, early bloomer and repeats well, blooms are beautiful with a lovely fragrance

Chippendale - very healthy, lovely blooms but some nodding, I had to move it so can't comment more

Sparkle & Shine - no BS, very vigorous, hardly ever without a bloom, canary yellow and does not fade, such a cheerful rose

Fire Opal, - healthy, slower repeat so far, I love the various colours

I have a couple of others that are also BS free, but they're not available in the US I believe.

Trish

Moses it doesn’t surprise me that two out of three of the recommendations are Meilland roses. I have high BS pressures too and The Charlatan is 100% clean 100% of the time, even in my hottest, most humid summers. I used to have another of theirs that was excellent too, La Perla I think it was.

If I had to choose major European breeders in terms of healthiest roses then it would be Meilland, Kordes, Tanteau, Delbard, Guillot, Austin in that order.

A totally unscientific, statistically unrepresentative biased sample of course!

Mose, my area also faces high BS pressure. The roses with good resistance are:

Brindlebelle’s Purple Prince

Desdemona

Raspberry Cupcake

Top Cream

Pcdm

Earth Angel

Pomponella

Golden Oppotunity

Florentina

Nollie,

Can you get/have Pinkerbelle? I have one which has endured much abuse (unintentional!), yet rebounds incredibly determined to beat its circumstances. I highly recommend Pinkerbelle on all counts. Mainland gets high praise on this great rose.

Moses

Trish,

I checked out all your listed roses and will continue researching them. I already have two South Africas, an older one and a younger one and am smitten with their vigor and strong flowers. Hoping they reach 4-5' which is needed for where I planted them. The older one is now 3' and growing, but seems to want to make a rotund bush more than a vertical one. I have a deep rose bed 8' deep, and roses placed at the back of it need height, so I choose bushes accordingly, but S.A., as stated above, seems to want to bush outward rather than upward.

Moses

Elina,

When in the season does black spot become an issue with them? Before 4th. of July, or after Labor Day? Before the 4th., and there's a problem. After LD, less so.

Moses

PCdM isnt totally black spot free either. Her leaves do well most of the year. Once it gets to gumbo soup summer and its raining every day she can get black spot. Not as bad as some but better than others. I dont spray though so ymmv!

Bliss Parfuma is the same way.

Sultry,

I suppose it's all relative to degrees of disease pressure. Kinda' like an earthquake proof house that got swallowed up by an enormous rift. Quake proof, yes, but not rift proof. I'm full of pleasant analogies, am I not? 🙄

Moses

Moses, there's a retailer of roses (Treloar) here that gives a disease rating for each rose. I always look on their site to see if they carry the rose I'm thinking of buying, and check the rating. Also, on the site, you can select for roses with a 5 star (or lower) rating and look at all those varieties without having to put names in individually.

I just checked on Pomponella and Desdemona out of curiosity and they give both a 4 star rating. South Africa (known here as Golden Beauty) also gets a 4 star rating. Bliss (known here as Fairytale Magic) gets 5. I find anything lower than a 4 star rating isn't suitable for my place.

Trish

I like Treloar's system. Out of curiosity, how many roses get a 5 star? Do they sell Austin roses, and do any Austin's get a 5 star? Also, are heights listed and are they dependably accurate in your garden?

Moses

Moses, you can google it and have a look. On the site they have Star Performers in the drop down menu. These are roses that have a 4 4 1/2 or 5 star rating, but you can select for 5 only. I just looked, and no David Austin rates higher than 4 star. They mainly carry David Austins and Kordes. As for height, I'm new to modern roses, so it's too early for me to tell. When you look up a rose you can click on characteristics, and they give height etc. Mostly roses I've bought exceed the height they've been given by other retailers. I just looked up Bee Scene for interest. Mine is in a pot and around 3' in height, while they give it a height of a bit over 2'. We changed to metric over 50 years ago, so you'll have to convert.

Moses, There are over 50 strains of black spot fungi identified. The fungus Diplocarpon rosae, which causes black spot disease in roses, has different strains that can vary by location.

You might want to contact your local Rose Society to check roses black spot resistant in your area.

I will have to give that Treloar rating system a try! Thanks for that tip, Trish ♡

Moses,

Jim is in PA, too. He has found it difficult w/ disease resistance. Meilland roses used to grow in PA. You may have more difficulty than I with resistance with more humid summers? .

The Kordes I recommended all do well for me in my lots of rain-humidity all season.

However, I use lots of organic fertilizers & new soil yearly which really gets them growing well to ward off disease better.

All my Kordes grew 5+ft..

And full sun and kept a distance away from other plants keeps them drier and healthy. They need to breath to stay dry and healthy. I found if they are really healthy they don’t get BS as much. If they are babies or if they didn’t grow well-possibly struggling-the rose is more prone to BS.

All of them grew vigorously for me:-giant size: Wedding Bells, Bliss, Cinderella, Lavendar Lassie, Beverly, Dark Desire. Any could get BS if wet unusually a lot, although usually no problem.

I have 2 Wedding Bells-6ft each. Earth Angel was 6ft. Beverly was 7ft. Summers Romance is good too-6 ft. Dark Desire was small in pot, but put in ground it is 5 ft 3rd year-kinda shaded sometimes. Cinderella I try to limit to 6ft. Bliis wants to be 7ft, but limit to 5ft. Lavendar Lassie-fabulous-no BS-6ft first year.I prune them all back to 4-5ft when possible.

Wedding bells was not planted in a good spot and grew poorly small-so I gave her fish fertilizer weekly-perked her growth . Next year Wedding Bells grew to 6 ft. She was the best disease resistant!

Of my hundreds of roses, and I had a plethora of Kordes, that I have had, these Kordes listed above and below do the best! I’ve removed a ton of roses, too.

A few more that are good:

Roald Dahl-good!

Olivia-excellent!

Mme Annisette-excellent!

Julia Childs-excellent!

Pomponella-excellent!

Francis Meilland did well this year. Needs sun.-good!

Celestial Night-good!

I will be trying out Kordes: Poseidob, Fur Elise & Sunrise Parfuma.

Cream Veranda-good!

Blush Veranda-good!

Lavendar Veranda

Moonlight CL

Pas de Deux-good!

Eisvogel-fabulous! Excellent!

Georgia Peach-good!

John Davis Climber-good!

I ordered Crazy Love, Poseidon, & Fur Elise, Kordes, and I am expecting healthy roses! 😊🥀 Tgete are more Kordes that do well.

—————————————-

Delbards are almost good. I have Nahema. I ordered a few new Delbards, Edouard Manet & another.

The rest of my roses have less diseases, but some.

However, if wet a long time, I am not sure any rose can survive.

“Bliss flat profile?” What does it mean? Bliss has the largest most ruffly, orefumed blooms for me. Scrumptous!

Moses, I have Roses Without Chemicals: 150 Disease-Free Varieties That Will Change the Way You Grow Roses Book by Peter E. Kukielski.

There are disease resistance scores for 150 roses, I can create a top list for you.

Please, let me know.

I second what Kitty said about Kordes, I can recommend Crazy Love. I think you will like it!

Elena, I have Peter's book, and consider it a great resource. Thanks for the offer of creating a list, but no need to, thanks mucho!

Kitty, your roses in full bloom must be breathtaking. Which three roses from among the most black spot resistant roses you grow are your absolute favorites?

Moses

Moses, I like Bliss, but I agree that the bloom is pretty flat when fully open. I think you would like Sespe Sunrise/Sunrise Parfuma but Treloar only give it 4/5 for health. As I said, so far, it's doing well in my garden. The blooms are a generous 4", the new growth is lush and bronze and Treloar gives its height as 4'.

Trish

Elena,

Excellent! I have the book, also! It was an amazing book! That’s how I began with Roald Dahl-a great DA for disease r. rose.

Moses,

3 favorites???? How can I pick 3?

Mme Anisette for her licorice parfum!

Pas de Deux

Georgia Peach (Small rose-only good resistance , but love her.)

I’d add Miyabi, (needs sprayed though) but a little BS, but more interesting!!!

More interesting to look at my florist roses even if a bit of disease only starts in mid-August. I sorayed, then.

I hadn’t noticed a flat bloom , . I see a DA cupped bloom. on Bliss-to me she has super big depth-giant ruffly bloom which I love. I’ll have to check her out next summer. .

Bliss Parfuma

Bliss should be my favorite, also! She is dependable, blooms a ton, and so exquisite & yummy parfum!

Bliss Parfuma in FL. She has that inner glow and can be kinda 3D.

Georgia Peach

But….. I am in love too, with Georgia Peach! A Jan Soek Rozen rose from the Netherlands. Needs a little spray in August humidity-rain.

Trish, since the Brindabella roses are bred and marketed in your country, you have many of that series available that we don’t have, I believe. They are bred for superior health, right? How many have you tried and are they highly disease resistant for you? I wonder if they would be a good option for Moses. I realize we don’t have as many available here in the USA but we have some.

judi, I've never tried any Brindabella roses. I've looked at their site a few times but never got around to ordering. They have a lBlackspot Buster line which is low or no BS.

I cannot believe how much helpful information you gracious Roses Forumites are showering me with. I don't know whether to wind my head or scratch my watch! Thank you all, deeply, and keep the info coming. It's supposed to be a cold next 5+ weeks with plenty of time for me to cozy up to my tablet and study your info. Thanks again.

Moses.

I'm planning to get a Brindabella Purple Prince in a few weeks from Home Depot online. I hope it is good and tough concerning black spot and that its blooms don't nod. Anybody have any advice on this one?

Also, Raspberry Cupcake and Chippendale keep coming up as strong front runners on my short list. Thanks, Trish and forever_a_newbie for pointing them out to me.

Moses.

Kitty, Sultry, and Trish, WHAT PHOTOS YOU TAKE, PROFESSIONAL LEVEL AND BEYOND!

Moses.

Judy and Moses,

Thank you for mentioning the Brindabella blockbuster disease resistant line. I see a few I just love!

Crimson Knight

Pink Princess

Purple Prince

and they are fragrant, too!

I ordered the Crimson K & Purple Prince., Brindabellas . Home Depot has an excellent price! And Grow Joy has Crimson Knight at $11.19.

Pink Princess is on my wish list for next season.

I’d really like to see how well they perform, and enjoy their fragrance and they are gorgeous colors!

Crimson Knight, Brindabella, Grow Joy Plants ohoto

Crimson Knight, Brindabella, Wilson Bro. photo

Purple Prince, Brindabella,, Grow Joy Plants photo

Crimson Knight reminds me of Baccara rose, except CK is disease resistant., Love it’s very dark buds! Similar to Dark Desire, but CK may be darker which I love!

Kitty, i couldn't find any roses at the Grow joy site. Perhaps I'm looking at the wrong company. Do you have a link?

Vapor,

Links are not working for me on Houzz . I need call aople about it. However….

Just type in:

“Brindabella, Crimson Knight Grow Joy Plants.

Or type the other names, Pink Princess or Purple Prince.

GrowJoy.com will then show you the rose for ordering. All 3 roses on that site. Now $13.99.ea.

i.e.

Purple Prince, little less expensive in Home Depot.

hank you. For some reason when their site wouldn't let me access roses, but the search diid! Technology....

My black spot strains and growing conditions are undoubtedly different to yours, Moses. Since both those things impact on health not sure if my input is much use, but I have both Raspberry Cupcake and Chippendale (tree rose) new this year and will report back on how they do in my specific BS spore factory. I don’t have Pinkerbelle, not my cup of tea really, but Meilland do rate it’s disease resistance as ’exeptional’ whilst PCdM gets ’excellent’, which seems to equate with 5/5 and 4/5. Tantau give Chippendale 3/4 stars for health.

Roses that others mentioned are healthy for them are disease magnets for me, e.g. Roald Dahl, Julia Child.

Nollie,

Maybe your different strains do attract issues different than US. Interesting, given the right conditions any disease resistant rose could respond differently. . Maybe certain strains attracted to different climates locations? I have had quite a few types the damper my weather.

Moses, Nollie,

Dampness is the most common reason for issues. I noticed that even the best rose for disease resistance may have BS if too close to another rose or plant or in the shade or increased rain plus humid conditions. This increases dampness between the two.

I had several Meilland roses regularly,: Princess ChdM, Francis M., Eden, Leonardo Divinci, Piaget, Michaelangelo & others. The Kordes roses I have all have less BS than the Meilland. However, if I put any if them touching other roses or overlapping with other plants the Meilland or the Kordes can get BS a lot in my constant rain/humidity. NY had too much rain last year the ground could never dry from later August through fall. For 5 years my roses had no BS as it was drier. Then in last 2 years with constant increased rain /humidity all season, near end of season roses got BS that had never had it before. I have doubles of a few Kordes & one would be totally clean & another had BS /rust due to more constant damp wet rainy conditions.

2 first years Wedding Bells, a Kordes, and Olivia were the cleanest roses in my garden. Last year even Wedding Bells after weeks of constant rain had slight BS in fll finally. She is overlapping & touching other plants, but it was so little I ignored it.

I just spray most roses and hope for better weather. The weather became really intolerable for any rose. The dahlias continued to bloom, though. LOL!

Kordes are usually rated more disease resistant then Meilland; however, put either rose in intolerable dampness & it can have more diseases I have found. . Also, older Kordes, I found, were not disease resistant.

Nollie,

Is your Roald Dahl touching other plants or in an increased damp or shady area? I found Roald Dahl, also recommended by the above book, is better than almost all Austins for disease resistance. Silas Marner is even better of the DAs. Only Olivia is really the best-maybe most disease resistant of all DAs! I had 34 DAS. I kept 1/2 of my DAs over the years.

Well, enough rose issues. I have many healthy roses all spring and most of the summer. I found the Netherland roses, too, have less issues in my NY climate. I now purchase many Netherland florist roses. I actually enjoy a large variety of roses . Reine des Violette does very well, too! I have many florist roses and OGRs that did well with only a tad of issue. I just remove leaves and enjoy!

DER ROSENMEISTER NURSERY

There is a nursery-garden DR Nursery near Ithaca , NY with only OGRs and he plants only disease resistant roses. He has lush gardens . He knows the best OGRs to grow! . Therese Bugnet is consideted good!

ATTACHED Der Rosenmeister list of his nursery roses recommended for our cold rainy climate. He has mostlyvOGRs in his gardens but sells mainly Kordes & a few others:

Happy Gardening!

Nollie, I'm now thinking twice about getting Roald Dahl after your comments. Julia Child completely defoliated here.

Both of my PCDM and Sweet Madmoiselle get some black spot all year long but manage to keep most of their foliage . I do spray regularly .

Roses that are 90 % black spot free for me in hot & humid Central FL are :

Celestial Night , Belinda's Dream , All My loving , Violet's Pride , Paul McCartney , Wedding Bells , Beverly , Pope john Paul , Sweet Spirit , Buxom Beauty , Stiletto , Silver lining , Pink Promise , Red Intuition , Francis Meilland .

I find that Kordes , Meilland and the newer Weeks roses do best for me in FL .

Thank you, pink rose, your list is full of the "best of the best," roses! Must be breathtaking to see them in full bloom!

Moses.

Nollie,

My Julia Child's were black spotters also. They also only had average vigor for me.. Neither did they have much fragrance. They're gone and not missed much.

My Julia Child's were black spotters also. They also only had average vigor for me.. Neither did they have much fragrance. They're gone and not missed much.

Moses.

I don’t spray, so if I banned all black spotters I would have very few roses! I keep my Julias (and Love Song) because they are excellent bloomers, Moses. Plus they get BS mainly mid to late season and bloom through regardless.

Roald Dahl is on notice because, aside from poor health, it doesn’t bloom fantastically well nor have much scent for me, Trish. All the yellow/peach Austins I have or have tried suffer BS though so it could just be they hate it here - Golden Celebration, Charles Darwin, Graham Thomas - all gone. Poet’s Wife so far redeemed by gorgeous, scented blooms, BS on LoS tolerable, Lady Emma is very prone to cercosporma.

On the other hand, South Africa, Super Trouper and Warm Welcome are super tough and healthy.

Kitty I prune and space roses well to ensure good light and air circulation and mostly avoid crowding or overhanging neighbours. I always maintain good hygiene - pick off scabby leaves, clear up fallen leaves, spread fresh mulch around regularly etc. The sub-tropical summer heat and downpours are the root of disease pressures here, plus afternoon shade is critical for many. RD is on it’s own but does only get limited morning sun. It probably needs more sun but then it would probably burn - a constant conundrum.

The mix of (white, pink, red and purple) old and modern roses in my East garden do better. They benefit from early sun to burn off overnight moisture, a gentler sun generally and some afternoon shade.

Healthy OGR that can weather my scorching sun, humidity and rain include Mme. de Sévigné, Marie Pavie and Rose de Rescht. Moderns such as Munstead Wood, Harlow Carr (flat blooms), Gertrude Jeykll, Soul, The Prince, Stormy Weather and Palais Biron all pass muster.

Carding Mill was very suceptible to Black Spot here. She is lovely but I havent been in a hurry to replace her after we moved. Pat Austin, Crown Princess M, Lady of Shalott, & Teasing Georgia are good here. I don't know why DA would quit selling Pat Austin she is one of the best ones for the Deep South. The Poet's Wife does get some BS during the summer. but is a great bloomer and quickly recovers. She would prob be great if I sprayed.

Wow, so much information! I really enjoyed this thread.

In my garden, Sweet Mademoiselle, Quicksilver, Wedding Bells, PCdM, Bolero, Julia Child, and Francis Meilland are not disease resistant. They clearly don't like our wet springs and autumns. I have removed the FM because it is very unsightly to have the whole plant covered with BS in a conspicuous location. JC is on parole.

Interestingly, I moved Wedding Bells from a prime spot to a new location with almost full shade. It has fewer flowers but is completely clean. I'm curious what's going on.

Lion's Fairy Tale has zero BS but gets some PM here. Raspberry Cupcake is new to me and seems healthy, but it hates rain and is always balling. Will it improve when it matures?

The healthiest of the DAs is definitely Olivia, and the second is Queen of Sweden. Teasing Georgia is doing well in its first year and I am trying to get it to climb. LoS and Molineux have a few BS, but they don't affect the appearance. I ordered Roald Dahl this year and hope it will do well for me.

Nollie, I don't spray either. Too lazy apart from other considerations! I tried many Austins here in the early days and swore never to get another till Diane talked me into getting Munstead Wood, which is fine here, though rather leggy so far. Thanks for the info on your Roald Dahl. Shame, because it looks so wonderful on HMF, and the rounded shape really appeals to me. The lack of fragrance wouldn't bother me now as I can hardly smell anything. Sorry to read about your broken bones on the European thread. What a jolly nuisance. I hope they heal quickly. Bet you do too!

Feiy, Raspberry Cupcake is new to me this year as well. I find it balls, and also gets brown petals on the outside which are rather detracting. That said, it is amazingly vigorous and disease free and blooms freely. Trish.