Does it smell fishy at all?

A Sherlock Holmes mystery! Although not so entertaining for you :-(

Can you get a little ladder/stepstool and sniff the dropped ceiling, as well as anything else up there e.g. recessed lights? No idea why any odor would be coming from there (anything in the ceiling cavity? why was ceiling dropped?), but you want to sniff everything in the “odor zone” and sounds like you haven’t gotten up to the ceiling yet.

The intermittent aspect suggests whatever causes the odor comes and goes. A volatile liquid that only seeps sometimes, a gas that only leaks sometimes, some reaction that turns on and off. Are you sensitive to the odors from overheated electrical wire/insulation - if maybe then sniff any light or appliance when running.

The unit has no ducting to any other part of the building? The vent hood, if any, is recirculating?

'fridge drip tray?

smell the electrical outlets...no joke

How about the neighbor upstairs? Could it becoming through the ceiling?

Perhaps a good quality testing company can test air and surfaces starting with items you know you react to?

COVER all the cabinet fronts for two days. If you don't smell it again? There's your answer.Something VERY strange when you wipe them? I'd try that first.It may have nothing to do with the scent.......could be separate issues. Some irritants are odorless?

Aww what a hassle, hate that you all have to deal with this

the intermittent smell makes me think air flow and one thing i noticed was the location of the hvac related to the pink circles - is it ducted? If so, could be helpful to get the ducts cleaned out - often building materials, dust etc end up in them

I wonder too about a refrigerant leak or there are types of mildew/mold that emit a chemical odor - if it were me I’d have the hvac in the main room looked at

Wow - this is going to drive me crazy - and it's not my apartment (or for my parents). I have quite a few sensitivities due to my systemic mastocytosis.

For some reason, I am wondering about the ceiling - since it drops in the area where you are smelling something. However, what comes to mind is a leaky pipe (which has a distinct smell) or a dead animal (again, a very distinct smell).

Another suggestion to smell outlets in kitchen (fyi - melting wiring may have a fishy smell).

Have you spoken with your neighbors? I just wonder if anyone would know about something that happened that could be causing the issue.

You've listed many things that it doesn't smell like - are you able to use some adjectives to describe what it does smell like (even if it sort of smells a certain way - use several adjectives if you can to describe it). Maybe one of the words you use will cause one of us to come up with an idea.

Oooh. I love everyone's sleuthing help. There are all good ideas and questions:

- No fish smell. My mom said today it smelled slightly sweet to her, which led my dad to ask about fridgerator coolant.

- I don't know what a fridge drip tray is. We rolled the fridge away from the wall last night so I could smell behind it. I didn't see any tray. Is this something built into a fridge?

- Smart thinking about the cycling on and off of appliances. The fridge is kind of loud so I can certainly hear it going on and off.

- I smelled the outlets last night and no odor.

- Nothing is ducted or connected to anywhere else in the building. Each HVAC unit is independent of each other, they have their own thermostats and own controls, they are not connected to anywhere else in the buidling, the only vents are on the units themselves.

- @JAN MOYER - What would you cover them with and how? If I use a big sheet of plastic, I'm afraid the plastic will smell too! Any thoughts?

Best news an hour ago - friends where I am staying are away in FLA for two months so we can stay here much longer than I anticipated and I have at least 8 weeks to bounce my tests and results off of you all. Thank you so much for your input. Deep appreciation!

Ah-ha. I just looked up the refrigerant on the sticker - it is R-134A. The safety data sheet overview says it is a colorless volitile liquid with ethereal and faint sweetish odor. Over exposure can cause dizziness and loss of concentration, at higher levels central nervous system depression and cardiac arrhythmia.

Ethereal and faint sweetish odor totally describes the smell.

Now how to determine if this is indeed the source of the leak and what to do about it. Honestly, for what I spent on the air filter, I could have bought a new fridge!

Open the sink base cabinet doors and post a picture of the plumbing drains and vents please.

Aha yes sweetish with an ether-smelling or chloroform smell sounds like refrigerant, could be in fridge or maybe in AC?

I looked up the fridge and it is from 2017. It is a very basic model. I hear the motor running alot and loudly. I noticed it when we went to tour the apartment. I was trying to hear if the HVAC system was loud and I couldn't hear it over the fridge noise.

I am going to ask the property manager if she can have the fridge moved out for a week or so. Then I can see if the smell is still there. If not, we know what it is. She is not in charge of maintenance though and is probably going to make me enter the request in the corporate online system which just gets ignored. Damn, the life of being a renter after 13 years of owning!

This building has a ton of young grad students and medical residents with high turn over. I'd be surprised if I can glean much info from neighbors. If I can't get anywhere with the fridge, I will try asking around.

@Joseph Corlett, LLC - Will do. I'm away until Monday and will post then. I'd love your eyes on it.

@dani_m08 - Thanks for the sympathy! Sorry you have mast cell issues to contend with!

Odor intermittent, so if from fridge, is possibly related to it running vs not Maybe just unplug it.

The floorplan looks kinda cool!

I'd check the frig by moving it out of the kitchen. Ask maintenance to borrow a refrigerator dolly with strap. It makes moving it easy. If you want to cover over the cabinets, you can use craft paper. 48" x 125'. Link.

You are stuck with the lease but nothing stops you from getting a fridge to replace that one and pay the storage for the old fridge . I cannot think of how else you will deal with this .

I'd roll out the fridge and unplug it. If the compressor isn't running - it's less likely to spew refrigerant. The intermittent nature of the odor tracks with an on / off of the fridge compressor. And an 8 year old basic fridge might be at the end of it's useful life.

And if you can't roll it out to get to the plug, turn off the breaker.

"Cleaning crew complied with our request not to clean but maintenance guy went in, sprayed Weiman glass stove top cleaner, let it dry into a white cake, then chiseled it off. I am allergic to this cleaner."

Contact the maintenance guy and have him show you where he sprayed the cleaner. Ask him to bring the sprayer. Glass top stove cleaner usually comes in a squeeze bottle (as you show), not a sprayer. Ask where he used the sprayer. If he sprayed anything else in the kitchen (like the oven, the sides of the stove, the counters, or even the sink), it could be unremoved overspray that causes the smell. If he used the sprayer for anything else after the Weiman's, the Weiman's cleaner may not have been completely removed from the sprayer.

You can ask Weiman's customer service how to remove it. Hot soapy water may work far better than vinegar water.

"Kendrah: Ah-ha. I just looked up the refrigerant on the sticker - it is R-134A. The safety data sheet overview says it is a colorless volitile liquid with ethereal and faint sweetish odor. Ethereal and faint sweetish odor totally describes the smell. Now how to determine if this is indeed the source of the leak and what to do about it."

What to do about it if refrigerant leaking is the source ... is have the refrigerator serviced or replaced. Refrigeration systems (refrigerators, freezers, air conditioners, dehumidifers) are (brazed) sealed. They don't emit refrigerant unless there's a breach/leak. A halogen leak detector is required to locate the leak source. The system is pressurized (by the refrigerant substance) so unplugging/shutting it off won't stop the leaking although (depending on where is the leak located) it may be circulated into the room to a lesser extent due to the unit's condensor fan not running. Cooling may continue working until enough leaks out to impair the performance.

Kendrah -- not many people know what systemic mastocytosis is (including doctors - I actually diagnosed myself with a mast cell issue after YEARS of problems - which was confirmed a few weeks later by the leading expert in the U.S.) - however, based upon some of the issues/reactions you have to deal with, I thought you'd likely know.

It's difficult for some people to understand how important it is for you to determine what is going on in your apartment - however, I completely understand. It's not just a smell issue/nuisance - it's a serious health issue. I have certain chemicals/environmental factors that will send me into anaphylatic shock = trip to the ER. Not fun.

I was actually just coming back to check on this post to ask about the refrigerator - my sister had issues with hers a few years ago - caused severe migraines (more than she usually deals with every week). It was very difficult to determine what was going on in her house because her sense of smell is not great (neither is her husband's). I actually went over there for a couple nights (epi pens packed in purse) to see if I could figure anything out (I have a ridiculously sensitive sense of smell). There was a distinct smell - "ethereal and faintly sweetish" definitely described it.

I called my sister to talk about it - the tingling of the lips is what made me connect it to you.

We unplugged the fridge (moved everything out of it) - and used the one in the garage - and confirmed it was the culprit.

Dani - What a story, and quite encouraging for me to know I may really be on to something with the fridge. I'm so glad you were able to help your sister figure it out. People like you and me could rent ourselves out as scent detectors. It is horrible having the nose of a hound and reacting to it. Scary that you need epipens and can go into shock. I'm sorry for the way that must impact your life and what you had to go through to self diagnose. It is enough to make you feel crazy when you have symptoms and illnesses that are uncommon and mysterious. When I start to feel my lips and gums tingle, I just know it is something I should not mess around with.

I put in a request with the management company to test for freon. But when I get back to town the beginning of the week, I will have an appliance repair person come and do the testing myself as I don't trust the management company to do any more than have one of their on staff workers look at the fridge and say "seems good to me." This company get the worst google reviews and has an F rating with the BBB! I'm grateful I'm in the financial position to just bypass them and take care of the situation myself.

Kendrah, check out the light switch in that frig too. If it is damaged, it emits a terrible odor. I dont think it smells sweet like you are saying though, because to me, it smells like spoiled meat, but, it is something to consider.

Will do! Thanks. The light switch is something I never would have thought of!

FRUSTRATING! The management sent one of their on staff workers to look at the fridge. He said it is cold so it can’t be a freon leak. He said that freon leaks are not slow. They are fast and immediate. He can’t smell anything and doesn’t know what it could be.

I booked an appliance company to come tomorrow. The owner confirmed the appointment with me just now. He said that R134 has such a slight smell but that it leaks all at once and would not be detected in the air. He too said the fridge would stop working if there was a leak.

This is contrary to what I’ve seen on online but reading online makes me no expert. The appliance repair guy has been in business for a long time and seems respected. I’m still having his worker come tomorrow none the less.

The management company guy said they cleaned the HVAC filters between tenants, which is good because I have wondered if that ever gets done.

But, I’m at wits end. I have not been in the apartment for a week between travel and helping my mom with chemo. I’ll see what it smell and feels like tomorrow. So very frustrating!!! If itis not the fridge, I won‘t know what to do….

I’d have the guy move fridge to another room, as a conclusive test.

What about the sink drain? Could the smell be coming from there?

Ugh so frustrating for you - could the ceiling hvac have refrigerant? I was thinking the newer ones come w/410 which i think may also have a sweet ether smell? but def not an expert

I didn't know that a freon leak would be immediate - I know with HVAC systems, a freon leak can be slow (very slow at times). I guess refrigerators are different?

Refrigerator compressor oil leak - read that it can have a similar sweet smell like freon. I also ready that you should check the refrigerator pan and see if the smell is coming from there. I pulled my fridge out - saw some gross stuff in the pan (dust/fur) - but no smell.

slow drip in a copper pipe?

Has any type of ozone cleaner been used in the apartment? Ozone can have a similar sweet smell to freon to many people.

Ozone exposure:

Ozone treatments have become big in some areas. There can be some issues related to them based upon type.

Side effects:

1. Some patients (almost always women) reported a tingling sensation in the lips and tongue, most frequently towards the end of the reinfusion. This did not occur with very slow infusion, nor with the new atoxic system (sodium citrate solution well calibrated to the blood volume), nor with heparinized blood; hence this symptom has been attributed to an excessively rapid reinfusion with a transitory slight hypocalcaemia due to the excess of citrate.
2. During blood reinfusion, more frequently women (10–15%) have reported nausea, a feeling of stomach bloating and a strange metallic taste in their mouth, which could be due to Zn-stearate or Zn-2-ethyl hexanoate present as additives in PVC bags.
3. For about 1 day after the first 4–5 treatments, 20–30% of both male and female patients reported feeling tired. Another 10–20% had no symptoms, while 50% reported a feeling of wellness. It must be noted that in all of these patients (60–80 years old), the major AHT was performed with a constant ozone concentration of 65–70 mcg/ml per ml of blood, without scaling up the dosage. In retrospect, this was a mistake and particularly in aged patients we must begin with a low ozone dose (20 mcg/ml) and slowly scale up to 40–50 mcg/ml. Since 2001, we have adopted the strategy: “start low (10–20 mcg/ml), go slow” (up to 40–80 mcg/ml, if necessary) and no side effects have been noted.
4. After 4–12 AHT sessions, four women patients (one with the history of an episode of anaphylactic shock to a wasp-sting) had a sudden appearance of a diffuse erythematous skin rash, with itching, nausea, hot flushes and slight hypotension, at the end of a blood reinfusion.

Ozone cleaning units can cause off gassing to occur - including the release of formaldehyde - but you stated above that your mom has very strong reaction to formaldehyde.

There could be a slow leak re: ac unit on ceiling in kitchen area?

@Joseph Corlett, LLC - Here are the photos from beneath the kitchen sink. Do they raise any red flags? I do not smell anything in the cabinet nor when I sniff the sink drain. There is a rust mark on the bottom of the cabinet. It does not smell. It looks like the bottom of a can that was placed on the floor of the cabinet likely rusted and transferred to the cabinet.

Refrigerators are no different than HVAC regards to refrigerant leaks. What about them would make them so??

You said that there was no smell until after they cleaned the stove top and chiseled off the cleaner. Could some of that white dust have settled somewhere that you can't see? Did you pull out the entire stove? What about a hood? is there one? Could it be the filters in the hood have trapped some of this white dust? Could the white dust have gotten into the HVAC unit in the living room? Has the HVAC unit been running and do you smell it more when they are running? How frustrating for you. Hope you can get it figured out.

The appliance repair guy came. He looked at EVERYTHING. He tried hard to figure this out and was on my side, but could not find a problem with any appliance.

We are thinking we will likely find another place to live. I'm sure we will be on the hook for rent in this unit and won't be able to get out of the lease. But my health is more important.

Management fixed the windows and I was able to get air in there today. But the smell and my reaction to it got worse as the day went on. It has been 2.5 weeks now. I don't know if we will ever figure out what the smell is from. And if we just wing it and hope we can air it out enough, I don't have any confidence that the smell won't come back, or that the source isn't lingering.

A family member had sick building syndrome from a place they worked in the 1980s. It still impacts their health. I take it as a warning sign. I know what allergens and chemicals can do to your immune system. Even if there is nothing toxic in the air, something is clearly bothering me. Nothing is more valuable than my health.

Luckily, we are very financially stable and can take the hit and still look for another place to rent.

maybe you can sublet it to reduce the hit.

That makes sense Kendrah - the frustration is likely making a hard time even harder, especially since you rented the place to be a help. so sorry you’re dealing with this

Do you have new area rugs or carpet? They really smell. Anything new that is polypropelene etc? New throw pillows or furniture? Outgassing of the finish/stain?

Chisling cleaner would leave dust everywhere in the air so just keep vacuuming every nook and crevice throughout the whole space, walls and ceilings.

We use Bartender's friend and I don't know how my husband can stand it and he's the one with sensitivities...the smell really clings for a long time so I can imagine its dust everywhere would be horrible.

Any update?. When I see your name in Comments, I wonder how it's going with the smell and are you still in that place?