Judith,

Springland Flowers has no address that I could find. Neither could I find a phone number. I sent them a message by email asking them for their address and phone number. Waiting for an answer.

Many of the roses listed have no name, but are described to be, "extremely similar to Thierry Marx," for example. I wonder what exactly is going on? Is the rose really Thierry Marx, in the case of the above rose, but they are not selling it as Thierry Marx which would violate copyright laws if they are not paying royalties on it?

Questions, questions...

They show what look like gallon pots with nice looking own root roses growing in them, in a photo at the end of a flower's photos, but read the statement below the pots....really bad English grammar that makes understanding the statement ambiguous. It doesn't clearly say what size bush you get.

Too many red flags just yet, Judith. Springland Flowers may be totally legitimate, but the unknowns need to be addressed, don't you think so?

Moses.

This is why I am afraid to order until I get more feedback. The roses are lovely.........but have no interest in getting scammed. I have enough to plant anyway........but did see a couple I would like to add! Will be interested to see any more comments.......thanks for your reply Moses - I always enjoy your comments! Wishing you a wonderful rose season!

Judith, sorry for calling you Alameda! Yes, see what kind of response I get. I will post ASAP when I have more info from them. Thank you for your well wish. My roses often overwhelm me, but their care also keeps me inspired and comforted.

Moses

I checked their website a while back, and lots of red flags appeared, so I totally agree with what Moses has to say above. Diane

The website registry doesn't list an owner, just refers you to Privacy, Inc, which is a VPN, which is used to cloak/hide your location. Which means the physical location, if one actually exists, could be ANYWHERE. This would be a hard no from me, until they ante up some more information.

Not spending a cent of my hard earned money on this, Nathan was enough for me.

That's all it takes for me to back off. I have plenty to plant anyway - my David Austin order of 3 boxes just came in today so that should keep me occupied and out of trouble for awhile! If they cant be reached or put their location out.........forget it. Their photos are pretty and roses are interesting............but not at the risk of being scammed.

Moses......."Alameda" is my farm name. I raised Arabian horses for over 40 years now I am raising miniature horses. My AAF prefix [Alameda Arabian Farm] and AF [Alameda Farm] goes in front of all the horses I breed.

Cant wait to plant Dannahue! And so relieved to get my Palatine order before tariffs.......Has anyone else been getting goodie boxes?

Happy Fat Tuesday!

Judith

I ordered 3 from them…happy to explain my thought process later. All arrived with pot & soil thoroughly Saran wrapped & taped. No certificate re agricultural kosherness. No warranty. 2 out of 3 died, and the 3rd is still very puny. No replies to emails. I think this is someone who is not a professional, not regulated, not “legit” re paying patent holders, but has a talent for rooting cuttings & marketing them. I would avoid.

Yikes, Deborah. Maybe someone located in China, perhaps? I'm sorry your experience was so bad, but I'm not surprised. How do they manage to stay in "business"? Diane

I've ordered several times from them. I forget where they're located. I like their prices and the free shipping on $99, which is generally 2 plants. The plants are random sizes, like many of the Etsy sellers, but they do ok. They just recently started doing that "extremely similar to" description thing. I think it might have something to do with patents maybe, I dunno. The roses are what they say they are similar to, except in one case I did get a totally mislabeled rose. I emailed to try to get it replaced, but no one answered, and then that rose was off the website. I didn't order again for quite awhile, until they restocked that rose. I really wanted it badly. I ordered a couple others with it and the quality seemed a little better than some of the other roses. And that rose arrived with a bloom, so I knew it was the correct rose. I might order from them again. Just depends on what they have and how much, etc.

One of the first roses I got from them was one called LAVENDER BALLGOWN. It's gorgeous. But, they haven't had it on the website in a long time and I can't find any info on it. Not sure if it was a renamed rose or what, but I really love it. The photo doesn't do it justice.

Some of the other roses I got are REFLEX, APPLE JACK and CHOCOLATE BUBBLES. They haven't bloomed a lot yet, but so far they look good.

REFLEX - gets a little B/S in the spring

APPLE JACK

CHOCOLATE BUBBLES

Also got PRIDE as a freebie on my first 2 orders. They haven't sent any freebies in the subsequent orders tho.

PRIDE

The one I really wanted that I had to re-order was YVES LOTUS, which is a random stripey. I didn't get a pic of the bloom it came with, but it looked just like their pics. Looking forward to that one blooming this spring.

I'm sure some of these sellers are likely not selling legitimately. Altho I think some might order wholesale from China and resell here. A few of them do grow the roses themselves tho. You know you can also order directly from China. One of my rose buddies here in CA ordered a couple times and no problem with customs, which is kind of odd. But now they'll be charging the tariffs on them I suppose. The website is https://roseexplosion.com/ She said the plants are kind of small, but they grow really well. And she said they get here quicker than some sellers in the US. There's free shipping on a $300 order. They have some really cool roses. Many European varieties as well as Asian ones. I haven't tried ordering from them yet. Altho they have one called STAR TREK that I need! LOL

Rose Explosion has some gorgeous roses! Where do all those different roses come from?? Would be tempted to try a couple....Would be interesting to hear from others who have ordered from them.

O, dear. This reminds me of the whole Etsy sellers thing. It's just so worrisome that people are ordering plants from " someone who is not a professional, not regulated, not “legit” re paying patent holders, but has a talent for rooting cuttings & marketing them" as DD put it. There's a huge risk of Heaven knows WHAT kind of pathogens, diseases, or insect pests of being spread around...just think about Japanese beetles arriving in the USA, for example???

Judith,

I haven't gotten a response to my e-mail to SF. I'll give them a little more time.

Moses.

The fact that these roses are surely not passing agriculture inspection is frightening I would rather not have RRD or spotted lanternfly of Japanese beetles or any other pest arrive in my garden lee alone the entire state of California.

Well said, Ryan.

Certainly not defending any online vendor but at this point, the plants have been here’s few years and could be cuttings off mother plants and new babies , not fresh from China or Japan or what have you . So they may not need certification.

It's now been about a week since I emailed Springland Flowers asking for their address and phone number. No response! What do they have to hide? A simple response is all I was asking for. Tell me where you are and how I can speak to a Springland Flowers representative.

Decide for yourself if you will patronize Springland Flowers, a business with no location revealed and no means to speak with a company representative.

Ask yourself, "Where did Springland Flowers get a rose to sell that looks, 'extremely similar to Thierry Marx,'? Roses as distinct as Thierry Marx are the result of years of meticulous breeding, and don't appear out of thin air. The photo SF provided is unmistakably Thierry Marx.

At HMFR, under the photo tab for Thierry Marx, there is a photo submitted by 'Garden Glimpses,' showing Thierry Marx, with the statement,"In China and Japan they call this variety Blueberry Panna Cotta."

Am I unfair being suspicious of Springland Flowers?

Moses

This is enough for me to back off. There are enough good rose vendors to buy from without having to take a chance on losing money with one who wont even provide who and where they are. So many scammers out there...........just not worth taking a chance.

I stand corrected. I ordered 4 from Springland last year, not 3. JiSe/Azure Tranquility & Cafe Latte died shortly after I received them. Lilas is the puny one. But Yves Jardin Parfum is going strong. Necks have been weak, blooms full & very pretty. None seemed like more than band size to me when I received them. When I asked if the Yves one was the same as Yves Piaget they responded immediately to say they were very different roses. When I told them that 2 roses had died they did not respond. I think I remember thinking that they were located in CA when I ordered, but that didn’t seem to be the case later on - don’t know why.

I love looking at and trying new roses.......and their photos are beautiful. But they sound too iffy to take a chance on. I just got roses I ordered 2 years ago plus a free rose. I would not have ordered had I known it would be that involved. So going to pass on this seller - will stick with the ones I know are legitimate. If anyone does receive roses - hope you will send photos and comment.

Judith,

I enjoy trying new roses, too. Even though my space is limited, 8'X18', I jam in as many roses as is permissible according to their mature width (which is why I concentrate on hybrid tea types with their narrowness and unattractive stand alone bush appearance, grouped together helps hide this, and gives more roses in the same space)....and I like the traditional high centered exhibition hybrid tea flower form the best. Then the modern English/OGR version flower forms come second, and finally some choice shrubs. When I come across a new rose or an old one (new to me), that I would like to try, the least successful resident in the bed gets evicted. The new hopeful one gets its place.

You know, if Grace Rose Farm gets its act together, I think it could be the next 'Go To' online rose nursery. Time will tell. There seems to be a lot of energy I sense with the owner. Keep well.

Moses.

DDin SB, I totally LOVE your post and am 100% in agreement with you. I don't want to be "a consumer", I want to be a person, a gardener,and be grateful for what I have.

The ’extremely similar to’ is 100% a weak attempt to circumvent IP law. I would be happy to pay for these roses legitimately licensed for selling to consumers. I contacted them a while back to ask where they grow their roses and they said California.

As @Lilyfinch z9a Murrieta Ca said, I also think these growers probably get mother plants from China and then propagate them for sale here. There seem to be a number of ’businesses’ with a similar

model i.e. Etsy sellers.

Well said, Deborah. I am a rose gardener, and I'm not in a competition to see who can get the most, the latest, and the cheapest.

SD Shine, I've said the same thing about China being the source of many of the roses these iffy sellers stock. Diane

You ladies are mixing up passion and the desire to experiment with consumerism.

Passion & Experimentation – If you’re trying new roses out of curiosity, to find what grows best in your garden, or to enjoy the experience, it’s more about personal enrichment and learning than consumerism.
Collecting for the Sake of It – If the goal is simply to accumulate more roses, especially driven by trends or a sense of competition, then it leans toward consumerism.

You Ladies. I'm a woman. What are these ladies you speak of? Diane, one of you people

What astounds me is the disregard for the spreading of pests and diseases.

Even if the mother plant is grown in the US, you cannot mail live material across state lines without violating both federal and state laws.

Pennsylvania has a huge spotted lanternfly problems. It’s destroying the local economy, and farmers in the state are facing closure because they can’t sell their crops. They’ve declared a state of emergency and now it’s spread to Michigan and Ohio. Farmers in the Midwest are fearing total collapse of their economy. I grew up in northern Indiana in a farming community and the fear is real; cherry farmers near where I grew up had to hire experts to come in and inspect their land for lanterfly eggs last year before to see if any infestations were on their orchard trees, and all shipments out of the farm had to be specially inspected—at great cost to them.

What if these growers are shipping roses from Pennsylvania to other states? Spotted lantern fly, entered the United States on shipping containers and it’ll gladly latch onto a UPS box or gallon container out of Pennsylvania.

Titian ,I heartily agree. This new tendency in the world of roses is extremely disturbing. Ryan,I totally agree with you, too. It seems to me extremely unwise and superficial to take the attitude of "o, I'm sure it's OK" without any solid reason. NO address. NO phone number. Why all the secrecy?

Diane, good for you . I'm a WOMAN, and have worked hard to become one. A person. Not a "lady", or a "girl",or whatever.Since when is it an insult to call an adult female a woman? And what about the men that are posting on this thread and participating in the discussion??? They count, too!

I'm glad we agree on the content of my message, even if we differ in form. I always use 'Ladies' when addressing female colleagues in my working environment. You prompted me to ask them how they feel about it, and they are perfectly fine with it!

This is what several language models have suggested: When addressing a group of women, you can elevate the language by using more refined or elegant terms, such as 'distinguished ladies' or 'remarkable women.' 'Ladies' conveys formality and respect, often used in settings where grace and politeness are desired. 'Women,' on the other hand, is straightforward and neutral, offering a respectful tone without being overly formal. The choice of words depends on the atmosphere you're aiming to create—'ladies' suits more formal occasions, while 'women' is ideal for casual or neutral contexts.

11 days now and no response from Springland, asking them for an address and phone number. What kind of business cannot even email me back with a simple request for an identity, as basic as my request was? Good bye, Springland.

Moses.

Very wise, Moses.

I ordered a one gallon rose from Springland Flowers ($49 + shipping) and received a small quart sized rose that looks relatively healthy so far but had some black growth on a few leaves. I used their chat feature to complain that I ordered a gallon rose but only received a quart size and their response was "Hello, We define this size as 1 gallon. " I am going to contest it on my credit card. My recommendation is to NOT purchase from this company.

Hi Kitty -- you probably know this -- maybe I'm mis-reading your post. A rose plant originally bred in Japan (or France or England or the USA) can still come from China. The Etsy sellers are selling DA roses, Delbard roses, Meilland roses, Tantau roses, and of course Chinese and Japanese roses. Someone else on this forum contacted some of the Japanese breeders directly, and were told that they are NOT authorizing the sale of their roses in the USA by these sellers. I think others are deducing based on interactions, languages on their websites, etc. that they have got at least some of their stock from China (and, again, probably from here in the USA as well). As long as we (I include myself here) keep buying from these sellers, we are supporting an industry (we are creating the demand, and they are supplying us) that is problematic on multiple levels. David Austin has sued some of the larger purveyors (like GCM Ranch and others) to preserve their brand, property, etc. Just because smaller or international outfits haven't sued doesn't mean they're happy with the current state of affairs. And just because various agricultural commissions haven't caught up with everyone, doesn't mean the risks identified by others in this forum aren't very real. We all make our own choices -- ethically, financially, etc. But we should make our choices with our eyes wide open. Peace to you.

I see a lot of Chinese sellers on Etsy, afterall, located in CA, Arizona & ? They may be partners to China nurseries. I read Chinese exporting & selling roses to US is questionable due to import USDA regulations. It is difficult to know whether ETSY rose sellers & Asian rose websites are Chinese or Japanese. I used to think they were mainly Japanese, but after further research, they may be mainly Chinese? Not sure…. not an expert in the languages.

Excellent post, Deborah. I agree with you, and I remember about the Japanese rose breeder telling someone from the forum that he had not authorized the selling of his roses in the US by these questionable sellers. Diane

We have ordered from them (they are in CA) and they were large potted roses and super healthy. I'm waiting on 4 more now 😉. Good for hard to find roses and they are bigger than some of the band roses that people are selling, but still relatively young. I won't order anymore until after winter.

I have ordered 6 plants from them. Very happy with my purchases so far. Plan to order more this week.