joseph, as manager of an inn, it is part of my job to know this particular law.

Unethical. Regardless of whether you agree with or understand the rule, it's still unethical.

Emotional support animals are pets. Service dogs are workers.

Useful distinction @auntthelma

My pet is my responsibility in my home and I find it ridiculous to have to lie to have a pet in a home owned by me ....I think you need to rsprctful of others when you own a pet of course so no barking for a long time no peeing on bushes the normal things that every pet owner needs to be aware of .

Well, I live in a coop so technically my home is owned by a corporation of share holders. I adore apartment living. The pet part of it, not so much.

Just like self-centered parents whose children always come first and can do no wrong, so many pet owners think the world revolves around their dog. Whether you live in an apartment, HOA house, or a .home of your own, idiots let their dogs bark, run free, piss in inappropriate areas, knock over kids and elders. Many neighbors, friends, and family members who I know and love are obnoxious pet owners and ruin it for those of us who are considerate.

I'm glad to know you would not do it, Kendrah! How awkward it would be if you got an apartment this way and had to see all your neighbors every day as you take your (non-service) dog out for a walk.

There are legal differences between service dogs and emotional support dogs. I have a friend who thinks she can get her dog on an airplane for free if she just buys a vest from Amazon.

Anyone who trys to pass off a regular pet as a service animal makes it harder for those that really need them. I know my dog would not pass as a trained service dog as I'm actually his ESA!

Jennifer, my comment was short and to the point. Yours is very detailed and very helpful. My sentence, ”ESA’s are pets.” was short and not detailed. What I meant was ESA’s are considered pets when looking for an exception to a ”no pets allowed” policy. I am familiar with the law in my state. California’s law sounds progressive and very humane. 👍

@Jennifer Hogan What incredible work you are doing. Thanks for the great description and examples.

ESAs in housing are a very different thing than ESAs anywhere else. The legal gist is that yes, ESAs can be viewed as "just pets" in pretty much any other setting you can think of - but there is a different legal standard that applies to ESAs and housing.

The federal Fair Housing Act applies to all states.

I am not weighing in on any one person's individual situation. It's just important to know that the law as it relates to someone's ability to have an ESA in their own home (whether said home is owned or rented) is different than any other public space.

@Jennifer Hogan, seconding Krista’s thanks.

It never ceases to amaze me what some salespeople will do in search of a commission (and I used to be one of them - not houses, boats, but still…) Definitely unethical, and good on you for not playing along.

I have spent way too much time in grocery stores where people are wandering around with either a) a wee tiny dor (or dogs) in the baskets of their carts, which seems pretty unsanitary for the next user, or b) enormous beasts like GSDs or standard poodles (both of which I adore, just not at the market) to believe that all of these are truly support animals. Especially the ones that appear to be badly trained. Unfortunately, the scammers make it rough for people for whom a support dog is a real necessity.

@ auntthelma - I had to verify that this had changed but currently the Federal Fair Housing Act recognizes ESAs as Assistance Animals and all 50 states fall under their rule.

ESAs are not pets in any state. Landlords cannot deny them housing and cannot charge additional pet deposits.

What Is an Assistance Animal?

An assistance animal is an animal that works, provides assistance, or performs tasks for the benefit of a person with a disability, or that provides emotional support that alleviates one or more identified effects of a person’s disability. An assistance animal is not a pet.

https://www.hud.gov/program_offices/fair_housing_equal_opp/assistance_animals

Hotels/ transient housing is not bound by the same rules and the ADA only covers Service Animals, not Assistance Animals.

"joseph, as manager of an inn, it is part of my job to know this particular law."

Your comment shows you've missed my point. The law is irrelevant. The only thing that matters is one's position of strength and sympathy rules.

I see i was talking restaurants and hotels, but the issue here is home. Agree that is a big and important difference.

You are correct to feel wrong to go the ESA route. The realtor is sleazy for suggesting it, Par for the course for some of them. An ESA is Not consider a Service Animal. It is a pet. Service Animals must go through rigorous training along with the human that is getting one. Getting a piece of paper off of the Internet or a crappy doctor giving a letter is pretty low.

Glad you see how bad it would be to do so.

nancylouise5me - you are very wrong when you say and ESA is just a pet. Please see my explanation in the previous comments. If you ever worked with a 5 year old who was sexually abused and has shrunk inside themselves you may reconsider the value of an emotional support animal.

Sadly there are too many of the internet shortcuts to getting an ESA letter and it makes us forget the true purpose of the designation.

No, i am not wrong. An ESA may offer comfort, just like any pet does to an individual or family. That is not training. I have seen true Service dogs attacked by so called ESA dogs, dinners disrupted by ESA. They are not trained Service Dogs. They are pets. Which is fine, they have their place in the world. Just don't try and put them on the same level as true Service Dogs.

nancylouise5me - I didn't say an ESA was a trained service dog, but not only according to me, a person with 30+ years of experience working with Humane Services and Mental Health Services, but also per federal law, ESAs are not the same as a pet.

Same as Medical Marijuana, ESA letters can be legitimate or simply prescribed/written by some online company who is hiring unethical physicians to approve anyone willing to pay for their approval. It never means that everyone who uses Medical Marijuana is using it purely for recreational purposes or that every ESA is just a pet.

Nancy and Jennifer are both right about ESAs. In some settings they are absolutely entitled to extra considerations - and in others the ESA designation doesn't have to mean diddly if the person/corporation who owns said space has a "no pets" rule. It all comes down to what law/s apply in the setting at hand.

It can be a somewhat murky area and anyone considering not allowing an ESA in a space they own should consult with an attorney. Almost impossible to prohibit in housing, far easier in employment and most other public settings.

Like when the guy with the dog insists on his right to ride in a public cab with his dog... next passenger - the one with the severe dog allergies - ends up sneeing and eyes watering all day.

Yeah, and the guy who is allergic to dog is wearing boatloads of cologne and them I'm sneezing and my eyes are watering all day.

Kendrah, don't get me started with scents! My DH bought a new body wash recently and I gag when I go into the bathroom after he showers. Must have lost some of his sense of smell, because 10 years ago he wouldn't use such a strong smelling product. It was expensive, so he is going to finish it, but ugh! I buy most things in the unscented versions.

This is an informative thread and I’ve learned a lot about the different classifications - I will say i have a big friendly yellow lab but I am very careful to keep him away from others unless they ask to say hi -

my sister always loved dogs and had an amazing Corgi, but a few years ago she was bitten by a dog at a B&B (the owner's dog who swore the dog wasnt going to hurt anyone and told my sister to "stop being so dramatic")

she loves dogs but really reacts if she is around one she doesn't know - it is super scary for her now. I see a lot of dog owners take her concern personally and say "oh MY dog won't hurt you" but that's beside the point - she doesn't want to interact with the dog.

I was attacked by a dog on its owner’s leash when I was young and over 40 years later have the physical and mental scars still. I know this is a dog's world now and dogs are at every store, including grocery stores and restaurants but for some people this is a constant ptsd trigger.

I only stay in dog free hotels and would only live in a dog free appartment and when people break this rule I am the one who suffers and so yes I think it is unethical and very unkind to those who choose their places of rest on it being dog free.

I was typing at the same time as LaLa. It is so nice to know at least one other person feels like me. I hardly ever voice my dog fear out loud because people seem to think I am over reacting because their dog would never do such a thing. However, 50 or more people are killed by dogs in the US per year and 500000 + people seek medical attention for bites.

It’s definitely an ethical gray area, but mostly an unfortunate reality that it’s so commonplace for Americans to exploit loopholes and bypass social contracts in order to appease their own self-interest over their neighbors’ (our nation’s current politics are a prime example of this).

I’ve enjoyed reading these insights, however, as this a tough issue area for me to judge personally: I have PTSD and do not use an animal for support, but I am very much in support of others who do for valid reasons (and like someone else said here, I’m somehow more my dog’s ESA than vice-versa 😂). But I’ve found the validity of those reasons can be really tough to judge: My now-elderly parents, for example, have decided they can’t go anywhere without their dog. They both can have some pretty severe anxiety/ panic at times, but I question their motives as they’ve never been this way with prior dogs, and they coddle/ cater to this current dog (who doesn’t like to be left alone) more than any other. They also assume that literally everyone who meets their dog will instantly fall in love w/him. I’m glad they have him, but as he’s not being used for mobility or immediate safety concerns - and they always seem to do alright in public settings without him - I really struggle to get on board with their desire to bring him into stores, restaurants, etc. That said — I also want them to be happy/ live their best lives in their golden years — and because I assume they are respectful and it makes them feel safer emotionally and/or about the threat of being victimized by crime (he’s a big dog and they live around some crime in a small city) - I have basically steered clear of broaching this topic in my interactions with them. But I’d be curious to hear others’ thoughts/ opinions on this ethical gray area in my family!

People pushing baby strollers or walking dogs are frequently stopped and greeted by strangers complimenting the real or fur babies. I hated this as a busy and socially fulfilled mother with young children but many crave and need human interactions and attention. It is likely the attention one gets while with a pet is fulfilling a social need for your parents.

I adore dogs. They make me so happy. But I think a whole lot of dog owners are a-holes.

My brother (who is an otherwise spectacular human being) takes pack walks in a heavily wooded area of the city every morning with a group of owners and 12 dogs all of whom are off leash. What the hell? All they care about is how great it is for the dogs' mental and physical health.

I don't broach the subject with him because it would cause strife, but I think it is terrible. Even people who are not normally afraid of dogs probably don't want to run into a pack of 12 dogs off leash. "Oh but they are under control because they all have shock collars on and they go with the trainer who has trained them all and they are under her command." Doesn't matter. So disrespectful. And probably illegal.

Also, it is terrible for other dogs who are on leash to have to encounter an off leash pack. Very threatening. My dog bit a jogger once because two off leash dogs were running at us and he was so scared and confused and the jogger accidentally ran into my dog and he just chomped down on the runner's leg. I take full responsibility. My dog is at fault. But, he was set off by the two off leash dogs who were running at us. Oy vey. I understand why people would hate dog owners.

I think there are things that could be done to lessen the negative impact of people who are skirting the rules.

1. You must have an established relationship with a mental health care provider for a minimum of 30 days prior to a letter being issued and the letter needs to be renewed every 2 years.

2. In order for a dog to be permitted in public buildings they need to have a "Good Citizen" certification. (Many nursing homes require Therapy Pet certification for animals to be allowed to visit with the seniors which is a more stringent test). There would have to be cooperation with the AKC to offer the certification for free or on an income based sliding scale for animals acting as ESAs. This could be offered through local shelters.)

3. In order for an ESA to be permitted in public buildings they need to wear a muzzle or be contained in a carrier while inside the building. Public safety has to be the top priority.

BTW - I am also a proponent of national bully breed restrictions similar to the bans in Canada,

I am a proponent of limited breeding (anti puppy mill)

I am a proponent of exorbitant licensing fees for animals who are not spayed or neutered ($500 a year).

and am not a proponent of No Kill shelters. This is largely a sham.

and I have some very negative feelings toward many breed rescues.

Good dogs should be available through your local public shelter.

am not a proponent of No Kill shelters. This is largely a sham.

Say more about this. I am curious.

Interesting post Jennifer. I agree with most of it. I would like to see such common sense applied.

Kendrah, the no kill shelter I am most familiar with plays games with the definition, mostly to exploit donations (I think). It is a tough environment for a non-profit to survive in and so part of me understands. But animals end up dead either way.

I like many of Jennifer’s suggestions. I have some level of disagreement with a few.

Good Citizen training - would hope that a dog who passes this would not need to be muzzled. Many people see a muzzle and presume threat.

Don’t agree with categorizing one breed differently.

Haven’t researched no- kill shelters extensively but my experience of local no-kill & sanctuaries is different, not sham in any way.

I hate the concept of no-kill shelters, especially those who won't turn any person or animal away. Not that they're a sham, but too often they're overcrowded, animals don't get the space or care they should, and they all suffer. YMMV.

Once No Kill became the new thing I saw that most of the shelters in the county where I lived went "No Kill" because many of the grants can only be applied for if you are "No Kill", kill less than 15% of animals unless the animal is killed for behavioral or health reasons.

The number of animals euthanized in the County didn't decrease. The reason for euthanasia changed and some of the facilities stopped taking all animals, and would cherry pick the most adoptable animals and send the others to Animal Control facility, that was government funded and not reliant on donations or grants.

The facility where I worked brought in over 400 animals a week. We adopted out around 250 a month. I saw a lot of animals that would have made wonderful pets get euthanized because they had some behavioral issues or some medical issues that we would have worked with in the past. We also had animals that were very unlikely to ever be adopted sit in the adoption kennels for month after month until they became kennel crazed and either chewed off a leg and killed themselves or became more and more aggressive until we had to euthanize them.

We also aborted dogs and cats who came in pregnant, because even if the pups/kittens are alive ( a day before live birth would have occurred) we could kill them and they didn't count against the euthanasia count. Those babies could have made great pets for some family, but they got killed to keep our numbers down.

At the same time as the county became "No Kill" we stopped pushing the reality of pet overpopulation. You can't say "HEY FOLKS - WE ARE KILLING ANIMALS HERE! STOP HAVING MORE LITTERS!!! and show pictures of the barrels filled with dead animals if you are trying to hoax the public into believing that you are a "No Kill" shelter..

Without really tackling the overpopulation issues it is just a numbers game. We move animals from one place to another and play the chess game.

All shelters should have open acceptance of all animals, relinquished and stray. Not cherry pick the highly adoptable animals and get the majority of grants and donations based on their "No Kill" Status. If they don't accept every animal they are leaving the shelters that do accept all animals stuck with the least adoptable animals and the least amount of money to care for those animals.

UPDATE:

We put a back up offer on a unit in the one and only condo/apartment building that allows dogs. The first offer fell through and ours was accepted today! We'll hopefully close in 2-3 weeks. Ironically, the agent is the same one who suggested we try to go the ESA route in other buildings. I am so relieved I want to cry!

My dog is such an uplifting, therapeutic force for my mom. She is exhausted from chemo and radiation, but she managed to make it out of the house today and to the home where we are temporarily to visit our dog. Such joy and love. They are so bonded.

She is a pretty traumatized dog and I am surely my dog's emotional support animal. She's a 45 lb mutt. Black with some tan markings, feathery fur on her tummy and legs, a plume of a tail, and some puffy, yarn like ears. I love hearing what people think she is - gordon setter, spaniel mix, many other things. Who knows! We have only had her for 4 months.

@lisaam

Why do I suggest that all ESAs inside public buildings be muzzled even if they have a good citizen certification?

It doesn't harm the dog at all to wear a muzzle. It will protect others from a possible bite and make people who are afraid of being bitten more comfortable.

Reality - every dog, even the nicest dogs, will bite given the right circumstance. A muzzle protects against this. Dogs may be protective of their owner and see the waiter reaching toward the table as a threat. Kids running around may distress an otherwise calm animal and I have seen too many kids permanently scarred from a dog giving a warning bite. The dog isn't attacking the child, but simply grabs the kids face and leaves 4 puncture wounds. A dog that is laying next to a table and gets stepped on may bite.

@Kendrah That is wonderful news! I am so glad you found a place and are able to be near your mom and I am betting that your needy dog is there for you when your feeling overwhelmed and just need a puppy hug.

So happy for you Kendrah. May you have smooth sailing ftom here.

Thanks @Ally De and @Jennifer Hogan. You are correct. She is the most cuddly dog we have ever had! A real love.

How could I not do through real estate hell for this sweetie pie?

aww for sure, such a sweet face 😍

Oh. My heart just melted. Those eyes 💜

@lisaam - I decided to answer your breed specific ban response in the morning, I was tired last night and I know this is a sensitive subject. I don't want people to have to put down the dogs they already own, but along with evidence that the bully breeds are more dangerous than most others I have my own personal experience and it supports the evidence seen in studies of dog bites at ERs and Trauma Centers.

This is a summary of 22 dog bite studies from Trauma Centers across the US.

https://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics-studies-level-1-trauma-table-2011-present.php#table2

Fatal dog attacks show similar numbers with > 66% involving Pit Bulls.

Nationwide over 33% of all dogs in shelters are pit bulls/ pit mixes.

Yet the most generous dog population estimates show that only 20% of all dogs in the US are Pit Bull/Pit mixes. (some estimates are as low as 6%),

Personally I have known quite a few people who got bitten by dogs. You work with dogs, you are likely to be bitten at some point.

I have only known a few people who had their lives forever impacted by a severe dog bite.

One is a friend who has diabetes and is in her 60s. A stray pit bull attacked her while she was taking out the trash and ripped a large chunk of flesh and muscle tissue from her leg. A neighbor ran out slamming two pots together and the dog took off. Her leg had to be amputated a few weeks later when the wound wouldn't heal.

Another is a young nurse (30) who visited her dad at his home. He owned a pit bull. Her and her dad got into a heated argument and the dog attacked her. The father couldn't get the dog off of her and called the police. The police shot the dog. She had wounds over most of her body and much of her face was torn away.

Another was an animal control officer who worked with me and was attacked and mauled by three pit bulls when responding to a call from a woman who said she was trapped inside her house and couldn't leave because the neighbors dogs were out. She had bite wounds on all 4 limbs, her torso and buttocks. She knew to lay on her stomach and protect her face, neck and stomach from the dogs. It was only a few minutes till her partner was able to get the dogs off of her, but she was disfigured and traumatized and never returned to work in the field.

Another co-worker was bitten in the elbow by a pit bull that attacked, unprovoked, from behind. The dog grabbed and tore through the skin, muscle tissue and tendons in her elbow and she lost the use of her right hand from the elbow down.

I also know that most of the dogs that lived in our jurisdiction and had to have a dangerous dog hearing were pit bulls. I don't have the numbers, but I can only think of one case that didn't involve at least one pit bull and that was a pack of 4 Akitas.

Dog on dog attacks at the shelter almost always involved a pit bull/ pit mix and most of the calls that we got for dog attacks on dogs in our jurisdiction involved pit bulls / pit mix dogs.

What do you believe the right answer is when we have a of dog that is causing so much more than it's fair share of injuries to the general public?

I love you a little bit right now Jennifer. I myself have had 4 dog attack issues. 3 were pit/pit mixes. I see so many people leading with their heart and adopting/owning dogs that they really either can't or won't ensure are never able to hurt others.

My dog attacked someone, took a chunk out of his leg. I was horrified. (Luckily he attacked a weirdo who liked the attention of being bit by a dog.)

After the incident and for the rest of his life I muzzled him when we went for walks. I was astounded at the number of people who would walk up to him and pet him with a muzzle on. I'd have to tell them to say away. Many people told me I should take it off -- even knowing he bit someone.

Even the person he bit, AND the animal control work who came to our house to sign off on the quarantine told me they thought I was over reacting by muzzling my dog. I was shocked!

@Kendrah You were being a responsible pet owner, and it does not surprise me that people thought you shouldn't muzzle your dog. Do you know they sell silicone implants for male dogs so they will not have to deal with the emotional trauma or embarrassment of not having balls?

So many owners of growly, or agitated dogs would argue with me when I said they had to muzzle the dog often expressing that this would somehow emotionally traumatize their dog.

Wearing a muzzle does not have to be a negative experience and doesn't emotionally scar your dog.

Dog's don't care if their nuts go missing.

On the other hand, if your dog is scared, agitated, or showing signs of aggression and I have to restrain them for a blood draw they could easily scar my face.

I train every dog I own to accept a muzzle. I put a few liver treats inside the muzzle and teach them to stick their nose in to get the treats, then after a few days clip the muzzle after their treats and leave it clipped for a minute, Put the muzzle on for a few more minutes each time, sometimes waiting till after the muzzle comes off to give them the treat and in no time you have a dog that will happily wear a muzzle, knowing it means a car ride or a walk or some happy outcome.

If they get hurt I can slip a muzzle on them before trying to clean a wound or move them. Injured dogs will often bite, it is a natural reaction.

Something else to remember - SCARED DOGS BITE.

I would often hear "he won't bite, he is just scared". A natural response for dogs when they are scared is to bite. It is how a dog protects itself.

Wonderful update. With everything you have been through, your personal heath and now your mom’s, you deserve this break!

"Do you know they sell silicone implants for male dogs so they will not have to deal with the emotional trauma or embarrassment of not having balls? "

Absolutely incredible!

Kendrah, get one of the DNA kits for the pup! We did it for all 3 of our rescue mutts.

" Do you know they sell silicone implants for male dogs so they will not have to deal with the emotional trauma or embarrassment of not having balls? "

It's not the dog's emotional trauma that they help.

"" Do you know they sell silicone implants for male dogs so they will not have to deal with the emotional trauma or embarrassment of not having balls? "

It's not the dog's emotional trauma that they help."

Two drunks were watching a dog lick his balls.

One drunk says to the other "Gee, I wish I could do that."

The other says "I think you better pet him first."

That dog has a beautiful face! I’m so glad you found a place where the dog can move in with you. Our pets are our babies.