https://www.almanac.com/plant/garlic

Um, I know how to grow garlic. Did you have answers to my questions?

You're welcome to offer a definition.

You know how to grow garlic, so what is the problem? You already have claimed to pull your garlic and said they were normal except the cloves were small. Now you claim you have all weird 3 and 4 stemmed old garlic plants grown from ONE clove and you don't know how they are growing. Pull them up and take pictures. You had similar problems last year which you seem to have forgotten.

Looks like witches brooming. It's when a head is triggered, and sends up shoots instead of staying as an intact head. One clove planted, head of multiple cloves forms from that one planted clove, shoots trigger off the cloves in the new head. Unfortunately, it happens under the soil, so you don't know it's happening till after you see the multiple stalks come up.

There can be a few reasons for it. Excessive timing or temp for chilling, planted too early in the season, or it stays too warm later into the fall.... or it didn't get enough vernalization. Too much flux in temps during a stage of head formation due to weather or a lack of mulch use. Watering fluxes can potentally be a trigger. There is some evidence that planting too shallow can trigger it, but if it's due to the depth itself or leaving too close to the surface to be exposed to fluxes is debatable. Nitrogen levels being too high can trigger it. Some fungal and viral issues can trigger it. Mites may trigger it, and there are some theories that allium leaf miners could be a potential vector with it. If your whole bed is showing this, it is likely you have a general growing issue. If you are using your own seed garlic, you might want to try getting fresh seed from a certified garlic seller.

Please note when I use the term seed garlic, I mean that as a clove being seed, akin to seed potatoes. I do not mean the seed resulting from the flowering of the second year of the plant.

Onions are a different plant than garlic, even though they are of the same family. They don't grow the same way, and can face different issues.

Thank you, beesneeds. Witches brooming it is. I had never heard of that. I guess what seems strange is that ALL my plants look like this. I don't remember this from last year. What is the result of this in terms of the bulb product? Are my bulbs going to be funny? Thanks to your identification, I did find this - https://growinginthegarden.com/witches-broom-garlic-whats-wrong-with-my-garlic/. I do apply nitrogen, because they are adjacent to my onions, which need it. Maybe that was a mistake. We did have an unusual hard freeze, but we did last year as well. I gather that water-stress may be implicated as well. Yes, this is from my own seed cloves.

Usually your cloves will be smaller in the head. Your storage of the heads is way down, and handling is more delicate due to this. The cloves themselves are still perfectly edible. You might find you want to peel and freeze them instead of using dry storage.

If it's just the few garlic that is very close to onions, it might be nitrogen. But since you say your whole garlic bed is like this.... you got growing issues in your whole garlic bed.

In your other thread complaining of small cloves in the head, that potentally indicates growing issues. However, considering how that conversation went, I won't hazard advice on what could remediate this.

I will offer you a test. Get a few pots- small ones will do. Use fresh potting medium. Plant one clove in each pot. If they come up as usual, great- it's more likely a bed problem rather than seed issue. If they produce witches brooming, then you are more likely to have an issue with your seed. If it's a bed problem, you need to address your growing issues. If it's a seed problem, order fresh seed from a reputable seller. Please note when I use the term seed, I mean that as a clove being seed, akin to seed potatoes. I do not mean the seed resulting from the flowering of the second year of the plant.

I'm suspecting it's over-nitrogenation, in that it is a whole-bed issue, and when the plants first came up, I'm pretty sure there was no witches brooming. That is, this was a problem that developed months after germination. Nitrogen was applied equally over the whole allium bed. Yes, about reduced storage duration and handling delicacy.

Ok.

There is a very important lesson that comes out of this. Don't plant garlic where you apply N fertilization (as in, for leaf crops). In particular, don't plant garlic together with onions. The latter needs lots of N, and the former is handicapped by it. Never thought of that.

As noted below, high nitrogen levels can lead to Witches Broom in garlic. True that too much nitrogen can lead to flower stalks in onions, but I never have that problem in my beds. So my impression is that I have enough N for my onions, but too much for my garlic. Dixondale says 160 lbs/acre is appropriate for onions, but Cornell says that only 50 is enough for garlic. So that is incorrect that garlic needs as much N as onions do.

You're the one that said that garlic is handicapped by N which is false.

I've never had witches broom in any hardneck I've grown over the last 20 or so years of growing garlic. I have had it in softneck types as well as stem bulbils which are 2 of the reasons I stopped growing softnecks.

Garlic is handicapped by TOO MUCH nitrogen. My question here was responsibly answered, and I appreciate the useful insights.

I'm not so sure about the conclusions made from this lesson. I've never seen such a thing as witches brooming and learned something new about garlic, but what I read from the Australian garlic association there is no scientific evidence linking it to any one cause with only suspicion of excess nitrogen and/or environmental stress as the clause.

One season I had a decimal point error adding 10X's the recommended amount of nitrogen. I've planted garlic after beans never crediting for fixed nitrogen, planted next onions and even after onions and had no witches brooming. So I'm not convinced excess nitrogen is the leading cause.

From what I read they did suggest the possibility of fast and large fluctuations in temperatures to consider, and makes more sense than excessive nitrogen. On your last garlic post I left a comment (a very good comment) about garlic but for some reason never got notifications so think it went 404. But as I mention once I'll mention again. Start mulching your garlic, I know how fast temperatures can change in your area. Mulch will slow the rate of change between your top soil and air temperature. A quick change in hours can cause stress.

I want to point out that I said too much nitrogen can be a trigger. It could be possible the whole bed is dosed so heavily it could be triggering the garlic, and not negatively impacting the onions. I did not mean to imply or suggest that high nitrogen was the answer to the OP's situation. Or other extrapolations on the behalf of the OP. I also listed off many other potential triggers.

I've encountered witches brooming a few times over the years. Only as spots, never a whole bed. Haven't encountered it in a few years (knock on wood). So long ago I looked up what can cause it. Figured out issues and fixed them. I refreshed myself recently due to this topic, to make sure I could be up to date as I can about it. I didn't know about the potential allium leaf hopper vector, so that's good to know. I don't really get those, I tend to keep a healthy predator population. Another knock on wood, lol.

Would a "witches broom" start with one stem and end up with 4 distinct separate large stems like separate cloves? You notice no more pictures or follow up. Dan was not aware for two months while ALL of the garlic plants grew 3 or 4 stems? Has Dan, as he tells others to do, contacted his local ag extension for advice growing garlic in his area?

You notice he ends it with his favorite obsession, micromanaging fertilizer levels in the soil. Too much or too little of one thing, crop failure. Amazing how humans have gardened veggies for thousands of years without modern products.

I've had double plants come up from one clove of garlic. It was due to a large clove being planted that hadn't fully divided. It wasn't witches broom as it was obvious from the get-go that it was a double clove when two separate leaves poked up out of the soil at the same time. Two separate bulbs develop, often with a flatish side on them where they were growing up against each other. However, that isn't what is happening in your case since you say the plants looked normal at one time.

I agree that it is witches broom that you see and I'm thinking you just have a garlic variety that is not suitable to your location. You should look for a garlic grower in your area and obtain seed stock from them (perhaps try a farmers market). This way you know it is already adapted to the area.

In a different, recent post of yours you talk about good sized heads with little cloves and mention that you can't grow hardneck garlic. That is not true. Creole garlic is a hardneck that is grown in the southern US and is even recommended for growing in Texas by your university extensions.

Unless you are applying massive amounts of nitrogen then I do not believe that you are giving them too much. Garlic actually likes nitrogen with the biggest bulbs resulting from its application. Garlic is a bulb but it is not like a typical root vegetable, I've always thought of it more like a leafy green. Same as with other alliums.

In previous posts and comments I seem to recall you talking about not mulching your onions. If you are not mulching your garlic then you might want to reconsider. You should try to keep the soil temps as stable as possible. While I haven't witnessed witches broom in my garlic I have seen odd weather patterns and temperature fluctuations stress my softneck garlic into producing stem bulbils. Doesn't happen every year and certainly doesn't happen to an entire bed.

Rodney

P.S. Pretty sure this is the post from last year that Robert was referring to. And since I assume you replanted the cloves you harvested from these bulbs that means you have perpetuated the strange, undesirable genetic traits they had previously shown (also looked to be witches broom, aka hairy top, last year).

https://www.gardenweb.com/discussions/6438329/gave-my-garlic-a-haircut-today

Oh dear. That thread puts a different light on things. Two years in a row of troubled growth is unfortunate. It could bump up multiple issues as potential triggers for what is happening. An OD of nitrogen potentally being an explanation for one year is iffy, but possible... the bed has it happen two years in a row is something else is wrong with the gardening. Possibly multiple wrongs in gardening.

Rodney, I've had multiple spring sprout ups too. Heh, I got a couple little patches of them from other years lost littles, and sometimes a biggun in the regular planting pattern that sprouts up two right off the bat. It is for sure different than witches brooming, which happens later in the season.

IME Rocambole types more frequently will split into 2 plants like Rodney described. I used to get a split plant or 2 when I grew Spanish Roja.

Splitting is different than witches brooming. It tends to show at harvesting time instead of partway through the growing season. It's causes are usually over-maturity or fungal issues. Hardnecks can be more prone to it due to it being less forgiving about being harvested in a timely manner. Multiple sprouts is different than splitting and witches brooming, and tends to show up first thing in the season.

I'm referring to a single undivided clove growing into 2 plants and bubs with each bulb having a flat side where the 2 bulbs meet. What Rodney described in his first paragraph.

I had a few as Lonejack described. What I found odd was when I looked at pictures of witches brooming (Aka as hairy tops) none looked like Dan's very well developed tops in his picture, and the reason they're called hairy tops, Hmmm.... but more like the doubles from undivided cloves as I had. I want to know what is under those fine looking galic tops? Please follow up Dan.

What I remember from Dan is a discussion about chilling garlic, about mulching garlic, and the one a few weeks ago having tiny bulbs with a single clove, all valid discussions with no reason to mock the author about.

Robert, when I joined this site I jumped on Dan hard and regret it to this day, I was being mean. His posts shouldn't be used as a platform to attack his reasons for posting a topic, but to discuss the topic and offer advice, opinions or acknowledgement. We all can agree to disagree.

Beesneeds is a walking encyclopedia of hands on knowledge I do appreciate, and this discussion brought to the surface hairy tops I never heard of. I learned something and won't need to live through a mystery if it happens to me, and may help others in the future. My opinion or advice is what follows, it's up to Dan to agree or disagree, but I had good garlic every year for the last 15 years.

Chilling is required and even in California where they Chill the garlic for at least 40 days. Nearly any garlic variety will grow in zone 9 or 10 if they are chilled, not just northern zones. I've never seen a garlic sold stating they've been chilled prior to shipping, otherwise they'd start sprouting shortly after being re-introduced to warm temperatures. I learned this for a fact after storing some in the mid 30's for a few months and when I turned up the heat to 40 they sprouted. You can grow any type in zone 9 and only requires a little extra knowledge and steps to succeed.

Mulching is the smart thing to do for moisture and soil temperature control. Both will cause environmental stress which will impact metabolism, growth, or development. Never allow ground to dry out, and avoid wild temperature swing in the top soil. Following through on a few extra steps will let you grow 600 varieties of garlic, soft neck or hard neck.

Sigh, I wish I had the space and desire for 600 varieties of garlic. Even in the height of trail years I maxed out at 15-18 varieties, and that was a gracious plenty! I think I might be down to 5-6 named ones, and the patch each of general hardneck and general softneck. And I have a wee spot by the path that I kind of torture on purpose to see where the garden needs to go- it never gets dug up :)

Have a theory, doubt Dan will respond. He may have planted cloves from last year's odd crop (he seems very frugal) which he said had "small cloves". His small cloves were not fully divided and grew into multiple stems like Kevin wrote. If they are pulled up, they should be multiple bulbs. Plausible?

^^^ yes.

When Dan originally posted the picture I was thinking that it looked like the cluster grew from a bulb from last year that didn't get dug up but I didn't mention it because I doubted he would have planted garlic in the same bed 2 years in a row.

I think Dan left the building. It's not like him to not post anything for this long.

Yes, he used his own seed- said so up thread a bit. And he did say the whole bed was like this, not just one spot.

Dan is frugal? In his last garlic thread I offered to send him free bulbs from 5 varieties in August and I'd pay shipping. For some reason it was removed and maybe he didn't see it, or if he did his pride wouldn't allow it? Is it allowable to offer up free seed to a person, or is this site like kindergarten where everyone must be offered a piece of candy.

Kevin - I've traded seed with others on GW many times.

I think Dan has convinced himself that he can't grow hardneck garlic in Texas. Might be afraid to prove himself wrong. My niece lives in Fort Worth and has grown out German White and a couple purple stripe varieties I gave her for several years now.

ETA: She does vernalize the bulbs starting in early November and plants out mid to late December

"When Dan originally posted the picture I was thinking that it looked like the cluster grew from a bulb from last year that didn't get dug up."

That was my first thought as well because the cluster of plants in the pic he posted are well developed and that doesn't happen overnight. Leaving some bulbs in the ground is my favorite ways to grow garlic scallions that get harvested early-ish in the growing season.

But then I read where he said "I'm pretty sure there was no witches brooming. That is, this was a problem that developed months after germination." and he said that it was the entire bed that did it. So I assumed that maybe the bulbs somehow did split after the initial stem grew. But who knows.

Rodney