Thanks. Have not heard of Garden Crossing, but based on a quick spin through their "New Plants", not what I'm looking for these days. Look at what happened with the various patented coneflowers and heucheras. Most turned out to be terrible performers. The vast majority of these now trademarked plants (because the protection lasts longer: G-d forbid someone make money off "your plant" after a measly 17 years!) are about making a quick buck. I am absolutely 100% sure they are not tested to be tough and durable in a garden. Off soapbox. (at least I was less verbose than last time! https://www.houzz.com/discussions/1615403/are-patented-plants-ruining-horticulture)

Yes, David, I hear you completely and I agree with you, but they did have four plants I wanted, including the Calycanthus, and their plants were simply magnificently raised and very well packed for shipment.

Good to hear, thanks! Whether they are time tested or not, that the plants are well grown is a first important step ;-).

I think Forestfarm still has a place in American horticulture, but both the quality of the plants and the selection took a dive when the Prags retired. A well grown tube can actually turn into a great plant - I have a few in my garden that came from tubes! But my latest order a few years ago seemed to have plants that had been 'tube bound' too long.

What is a 'tube'? A plug plant? What sort of size do you expect to get with mail order? 9cm pots are pretty standard here although I do use an outfit which sends out beautifully packed and grown perennials in 125cm or 1 litre pots. At this time of year, I would almost certainly prefer to get smaller plants, as establishing a more mature plant in April/May is considerably more problematic in my mild, but dry climate (<22-24inches per annum), than an autumn planting.

I don't think I have lost anything this winter...unlike 2022/3 which was the year I lost every agapanthus and pelargonium (including a gorgeous p.ardens...sigh).

https://www.forestfarm.com/pot-sizes

I can't seem to open that, David but no worries, just a vague curiosity on my part.

Here is the important bit:

Tubes: Known in the industry as ‘band pots’ our tubes are 2" x 2" wide and 6" deep for woody plants and 4" deep for perennials. These smaller plants are much lighter to ship. The plant tops can vary between 3" and 3', but are generally 6-18".

Ah right, the mysterious 'band' the rose-y lot talk about. Have never seen these over here (but I am not really a massive online buyer). They look handy though - would us them for sweet peas for sure.

The funny thing though, is that might be a slight change over what was for decades the actual 'tube' at Forestfarm. I first ordered from them in the early 1990s. No other nursery grew plants in something like them. They were more like 1.5" X 1.5" inches and a little longer than 6", maybe 8". Very tall and thin. It looked sort of like paper, but never seemed to biodegrade. This makes me think it was made of a woven fibrous plastic, totally unlike normal nursery pots.

Quite possibly the company that could produce something so oddball stopped making it so they've gone to this typical black PE plastic pot that I have seen at other nurseries.

I vaguely recollect that my last order from them was in the 2017-2019 timeframe. So they could have made the switch since then.

Ugh. Just wrote a rather long post. Went to another tab to check on the name of a mail-order company I used, came back to GW, and my post was gone. Just don't have it in me now lol to rewrite. I'll add it tomorrow!

:)

Dee

I think I did buy from Garden Crossings once and was happy with the order. Have never ordered from Forest Farm though I've been tempted to a few times. I do buy from Bluestone sometimes, and I agree, I hate the pots and always peel them off, and they are always small, but I think I've had good luck with their plants. And if you catch a sale they are pretty good.

I just made an order from FEDCO for their bare root trees, shrubs and perennials. I normally only buy seeds from them, but I was surprised they offered these plants. I've only ordered roses bare root before and had good luck with those. It's a Co-op in Maine.

So this big huge long box comes. They had staffing problems and weather problems and shipped late and the plants were already starting to open. We got the three trees in the ground right away and got metal fencing around them for the rabbits that were brutal over the winter. I don't know how they are going to work out. I'm not happy with the position of the branches on the trees. What was I thinking, buying an ornamental tree and not choosing it in person...lol. But, $38. each for two small crab apples. Good varieties. I wanted something very narrow and small and one is only 6ft wide at maturity? We'll see. The other is 10ft wide @ maturity. The third tree is a Seven Sons Flower tree that Woody used to always recommend and I'm finally getting one and will think of her as I watch it grow. That one was $24. and is really small and not a looker. [g] Oh well. It could work out okay, but I think next time I will skip the bargains when it comes to trees.

I did also order bare root shrubs and perennials. I was dubious at the looks of them, but I potted them up right away. Wow, they took right off! 3 day lilies that went from barely looking alive to green growth in days. Three rosa rugosas that also started pushing out green leaves within days and a Viburnum that looks amazing. $23. each for the shrubs and $8. for the daylilies. I will definitely not hesitate to do the shrubs and perennials again. Can't get more eco friendly and saves on shipping costs too. It is a little more work, but not by a lot. If I had the spots ready for them, they could have gone right in the ground just as easy as a pot.

Prairiemoon, just wanted to say a word about the Heptacodium--Seven Son Flower. I've grown the species and now one of the cultivars, Temple of Bloom (stupid name.) They grow very fast and the first couple of years, rather wildly with shoots going all over the place before settling down. Of course, they need judicious pruning during this period. But I bet the little, nondescript plant you got will do great for you.

BTW, I don't think Itea 'Little Henry' is a hybrid, just a cultivar, but I could certainly be wrong.

LaceyVail - Thanks for that information on Seven Son Flower Tree. I already see a few branches I want to prune. I positioned it so two main branches will head in the direction I need them. How many shoots - trunks? - would you allow to keep growing? Well, that is encouraging, maybe it will surprise me and turn out great!

I think I went for 3 main trunks on the species. I have 3 now on the Temple of Bloom, now entering it's 4th spring from a very small plant. But there is a 4th trunk at an awkward angle that I will probably remove and am hoping one of the new vigorous shoots will work for a 4th trunk.

Okay, trying this again :)

So, I discovered Garden Crossings about 3 years ago, and they have kind of become my go-to place for mail order. I agree they don't have a lot of unique or exotic things, but I'm not an exotic gardener lol. Also, I am transitioning much of my garden to easier-care shrubs, so I am looking for reliable old standbys.

Their plants are indeed a good size, have all been very healthy and nice specimens, and have been quite well-packaged. I had one holly that had a wonky trunk, and when I asked for a replacement, they sent one, and told me to just keep the other. I do find shipping to be expensive, and often have decided against an order (usually of just one or two plants) because of shipping costs. However, this also seems to be the same across the board, and I have decided against other orders with other companies for the same reason (waiting and buying more things to make the shipping cost a bit more palatable). I would say that now the bulk of my mail-order purchases in the last three years has been from Garden Crossings.

I've only ever ordered from Forest Farm twice, I think, and the second time was rather hesitantly - I placed the order because I couldn't find what I wanted elsewhere. The plants I bought from Forest Farm all gave up the ghost. They just seemed too puny and weak to survive, even if I potted them up for a bit too.

Ah, Bluestone....... Sigh. I count myself extremely luck to have been a beginning gardener at the time I was, because Bluestone was THE most amazing mail-order company ever. Their plants came in 3-packs - very tiny, with each of the three cells being no more than two inches square and three inches deep. But man did those plants grow. I don't know what it was but those little things almost always took off like gangbusters. The majority of my garden is from Bluestone.

A 3-pack was about seven bucks. SEVEN dollars for three plants, when most other places were charging that much for one plant. Customer service was phenomenal. You'd call to order ONE replacement plant, and no questions asked, they would send you another 3-pack. Crazy. And they had coupons all the time. $2 off plants for the birds. $1.50 off shade lovers. And so on. As a matter of fact, one of the things I find amusing and annoying at the same time now is that I believe their coupons are STILL $2 off lol. Come on. You can't go from charging $7 for three plants, to $20 for one, and still give a $2 coupon!

Honestly, I was so sad when they switched to the single-plant sales, and prices went up as well. I think that's one reason I don't buy from them so much, although I still do place an occasional order. I know it's psychological or something lol - hard to bring myself to pay 20 bucks for a plant that I know I would have gotten three of in the old system lol. And I have to agree, I hate those coir pots. Never plant them. I peel them off and throw them in the compost. I wouldn't NOT recommend Bluestone, but the magic is a bit off them for me. I know that's kind of silly - their plants are still good quality, their customer service is still good, and they need to stay competitive and make money too, but it's just a silly hang-up with me.

I started branching out (lol no pun intended) into trees, and while hesitant to use them at first, I have been fairly happy with FastGrowingTrees. I bought my first tree, a redbud Oklahoma, from Sooner Plant Farm. It was quite expensive, but it was an absolutely beautiful specimen and amazingly packaged. I was so happy. Then it didn't survive the winter completely. I called in the spring, and it took some work to get in contact. They did have a message on their machine apologizing for delays, saying they were short-staffed, and when I did get a human, he was extremely pleasant and nice, but they just don't offer replacements or credits or partial credits or anything. The upper half of the tree had died and the man on the phone was very helpful and patient in explaining how I could try to train a new leader, but it just didn't work for me.

I couldn't justify another purchase from them, so I tried FastGrowingTrees. Someone I know said they use them often and are happy with them. And I have used them since for several other things. Most of the plants I have gotten from them are quite nice and healthy, and surprisingly good-sized. And well packed. My replacement redbud was not as nice as the one from Sooner (kind of a two-branch wonder lol, like a "V" on a trunk) but it survived this winter (mostly) and I'll see how it does. FGT also has some good sales, so it pays to get on their mailing list, imo.

PM2 that's interesting about FEDCO. Having worked at an organic farming non-profit, and also on an organic farm, I am very familiar with FEDCO (or thought I was lol!!) - many of our farmers did bulk ordering with them every year for seed and supplies etc. I didn't realize they had live plants as well though. I will definitely have to look into that. And the heptacodium - sheesh, I don't know why I keep going back and forth on that one lol! I should just buy the darn thing and be done with it. Woody would be telling me to do it!

:)

Dee

Edited to add a couple things. I am eyeing some stuff from Wilson Brothers and from Garden Goods Direct. Off the top of my head I don't remember what they are lol (some kind of shrubs) but they are the only places I can find what I want. I haven't pulled the trigger yet, but from what I could find online reviews seem to be decent. Please chime in if you have used either of these companies.

The other thing is, I've actually bought a few things in the past year or two from Home Depot through mail-order. Geez I can't remember the first order, but I remember being very pleasantly surprised at the size and condition of it. Just last week I placed an order for three Arrow Point Hollies. They had five gallon plants for $50, versus $60 for 3 gallon or $30 for 1 gallons, which was the cheapest price elsewhere that I could find. And I got free shipping. It was a good deal, and I'm hoping the plants are as nice as the last ones I got. And that they are correctly labeled/identified lol. Honestly, that's my biggest concern with buying from Home Depot!

Oh wow, I literally wrote that saga of a post above lol, closed GW, checked my email, and there's an email from Home Depot that my order is being delivered a couple days early! Nice surprise and hopefully a good experience all around - we'll see when the plants come in!

:)

Dee

Dee, Glad you made it back to repost. I used to lose a lot of posts and then decided I would compose my post in Text Edit on my Apple laptop and then copy paste it when I was ready to submit. That way if I lose it, I have the original and can copy and paste again.

I agree 100% about Bluestone. I seemed to have hit the sweet spot with them as well. In the beginning they used to have the most amazing prices. Their plants were always small, but healthy and I rarely lost anything. I also bought a LOT of those 3 packs. No one else was offering that. And shipping costs were low at that time. I bought a lot from them.

I forgot all the other advantages that Bluestone offered….a trip down memory lane…lol. But, really, how could they keep operating like that? Someone there got smart and kept the business going when they changed. I still order from them happily, I just can’t order as much or as often. They now have Friday sales that I usually check and they let you keep adding to the shopping cart and send it when you have a large enough order to accomodate the shipping cost. I do find that their regular prices are not much lower than what I can buy locally and without the shipping costs. So I am buying more locally. Which is really better for everyone I’d think. Keep the brick and mortar stores going. Get to choose each plant in person, and hopefully build a relationship with people at the nurseries.

You must be working on that new area where they cut down trees etc for the wiring, was it? Sounds like you made some decisions over the winter.

Your experience buying trees was mail order, right? Yes, I won’t do that again. I want to choose the best, tree with the best branch structure, that has been well taken care of and if something is wrong that the nursery will stand behind it. I’m definitely not going to try to train a new leader on a tree that should have come through the winter in one piece. [g]

I am going to try to take photos of the order I got from Fedco so you can see what I got for the prices they offered, but it’s raining today, I’m staying inside to get some things done.

I am focused on seeing what I have in my garden that I can duplicate. I have an old Deutzia. OLD. Had to have been original to the property in the 50s. It’s been here as long as we have been since the 80s. I noticed it had two side shoots that rooted and I dug those up and potted them up and now I have two more good looking, pretty good sized shrubs to put somewhere else. This year I may try my hand at taking cuttings from my roses to root. Digging up the snowdrops soon to add to new locations. Things like that. I feel very satisfied when I can do things like that more often.

I finally took some photos of the order I made with FEDCO for bare root trees and shrubs. 'Adirondack' Crab Apple Tree

'Red Baron' Crab Apple - not as successful, but I suppose it might still do something....I'm not happy about the two middle branches that were pruned.

Seven Sons Flower Tree - I'm pretty happy with all that new growth...

That growth in the middle is all new, yet the two branches that are bare, had some leaf buds on them, that didn't develop.

I bought 3 rugosa roses...also bare root....this one on the left is 'Roseraie de l'Hay' and there is a flower bud on it.

This is 'Schneekoppe' which has really pretty foliage so far and seems to be the best grower of the trio. I also bought a 'Blanc Double de Coubert' but I haven't got a good photo yet. It is not looking that great so far.

This one is a cranberry Viburnum and it is pretty impressive for a bare root plant for $22.

prairiemoon, if this is your first time growing a Heptacodium, be aware that for the first few years, they grow wildly. Prune judiciously over several years to make a multi-trunked tree.

Thank you, Laceyvail, I have not trained a tree to shape before, so I am going to have to ask for a help along the way. I can see why you would say so, I did notice how vigorous it started growing once it was in the ground. I am hoping for branches going away from the trunk in empty spaces among the branches of Spruce and Maple that are adjacent. And in the direction toward the sun and away from shade. So, I'd assume that would make it easy to choose certain branches to encourage and which to remove. I would think it is too early to start pruning right away? And with rabbits, right now it has a metal fence around it.

I wouldn't prune this year at all. Let it establish. Next year, prune carefully. If you're not sure about a stem, leave it. Let it grow. Following year, prune again. And maybe the third as well. I really love this plant--it attracts millions of pollinators--alive with them--and blooms when few trees do.

I'm really looking forward to it...thanks for the help!

I'm just in from doing a little more pruning on my H. 'Temple of Bloom'. It's starting its 4th season with me and I pruned in late winter, but new shoots that I don't want are sprouting along the trunks. I want a small tree, not a shrub.

That's a PW hybrid? Maybe they were aiming for a shrub? You have the straight Heptacodium, right? Did your pruning work out differently?

I had the straight species at my former place, now at a much smaller property I have the cultivar with the regrettable name of "Temple of Bloom'. Either one can be left as a shrub or pruned as a tree, multitrunked. But both require doing it over several years, shaping as needed. All the pics of T of B show it as a small tree.

LVail - I wish I had got around to planting mine sooner. Oh well. Yes, I looked at the Temple of Bloom - I ended up with the other one because I was making an order for other trees and shrubs bare root and they had one for $22. So I stopped vascilating and added it to the order. You are going to have so many pollinators with two of them!

Yes, lots and lots of pollinators, even though I have only the T of B at my new property.

Oh, right, you said that. Sorry. Well, then maybe you need a second one where you are!!